This one's on the staff

[orange79]

I'm still not hugging him. Not without dinner anyway.

Well, dinner is obviously a prerequisite.

 

[Trueblue25]

What did you do? Sober up?

Now you are on the right track. Right now this team just isn't very good.

If you agree that you are never going to see M2M. than why bother offering it up as some sort of solution?

Because its an adjustment that could have been made to help potentially win this game? Is Boeheim above criticism?

 

[Trueblue25]

Nobody said to scrap the system. Simply adjust to a different defense for 10 minutes if the other team is blowing you out like the lakers vs colgate.

 

[Trueblue25]

lol we played a team with 5 starters back on their home floor, a floor they almost never lose on, and it's on the coach not making adjustments. lol okay fine.

We went into the half down 4, please explain to me what happened in the second half? That's called being out coached and out played. Fine. The loss is on everyone.

 

[pearl31]

Dang I didn't know we were having a contest. I better up my game.

On that note. I'm going into lurker status for awhile and take a little break from the board. Work sucks for me right now and I come here to take my mind off things and to have fun and because I love talking Syracuse basketball. And it's not fun discussing how poorly we are playing the past two games over and over. I still think we're going to have a really good year, but I can't even totally convince myself of that right now. But I'll still be watching every game cheering like heck.

I hear ya, man - but try and post when you can! you are a terrific member!

 

[Townie72]

Because its an adjustment that could have been made to help potentially win this game? Is Boeheim above criticism?

Certainly by you he is.

You're the one who started this whole thread off by stating that he was "out-coached" in the first half of the Wisconsin game and that he failed to make adjustments in the second half.

Now you are saying that UW's fast start in the 2nd half was due to JB being out-coached.

I'd say that both those statements are without any merit whatsoever. They are throw-away lines from a frustrated fan who doesn't know 5% of what JB knows about basketball or this team or where they are in the season or what he is trying to achieve.

And quite frankly it's insulting to read this crap.

An adjustment to help "potentially" win this game? Oh, I see. You're just helping out JB with a suggestion that might possibly or potentially help. And sine there is no chance JB is actually going to do this, you get to say "I told you so" if SU loses.

Even if this suggestion is to switch to a defense we never use in games and that the opponents see is almost every game because it couldn't hurt and it might potentially help.

 

[pearl31]

Are you really not understanding the words? Or do you just need to move the goalposts to fit your agenda? Here's what i said, as simply as i can put it.

• We've discussed, since 1985, that we don't believe JB is among the 'top 5' coaches. A lot of coaches have coached since 1985. Some have retired, some have had brief, non-lasting successes. At any given moment, whenever the discussion has taken place, in general, we didn't have JB in the top 5 of coaches who were then working. Not sure what your beef is with that. It's not as if i said he's #20 in my book. I could have had him at #6, but you went rabid just because i/we say he's not 'elite' and then acknowledge that everyone has a different definition of 'elite.' Top "5" is an entirely arbitrary number. Top "6" is no less valid, but somehow that angers you.

• The discussion was not about who was hirable by SU or available to coach SU. Somehow, you want to take a bunch of statements which reflect a bunch of things and then condense them to one simplistic (inaccurate) statement, and then add an additional set of conditions...

• The dialog tends to be about, 'if not top 5,' then where? And the answers have always been 'in the top 20,' and then there are lots of situational/hypothetical talks you probably can't entertain. Like, what if (a) Shaka Smart had the Dome for 40 years. What if JB coached at VCU. For some coaches who had brief successes, what if they had JB's job — were their brief successes a matter of situation or actual talent/acumen? So, yeah, i'm speaking for, say, 6 different people, over 30 years of time, and the assessment of JB, if i simplified it for you, is probably somewhere from 6 to let's say 12. I don't remember any real arguments for him being much lower than that. If that's somehow damaging to you, i don't know what to say. Nothing much can be said, since you don't seem to be able to see/acknowledge/admit that JB isn't infallible. Reminds me of the argument i had with a kid in high school who insisted that every single professional baseball player was faster than me. Because they were professional athletes. JB is a "hall of fame coach." Therefore, he's a genius. He's not a genius. He's only a man.

• We talk about such things like a) 'only' one NC; but b) three finals appearances. And, personally, i count a finals appearance as pretty much equal to a championship win. So, you see, i kinda give JB credit for that. Hope that pleases you. Then we discuss that the 96 finals appearance was down to two incredibly 'lucky' plays, and we don't credit JB for those plays. So, there's a conflict i hope you can reconcile. I don't have much confidence in that, though. There are a LOT of conflicts and contradictions and factoring discussed. And what we come up with is that there are no concrete answers. It's entirely subjective, and that only morons insist that it isn't. Like insisting we deserved to make the tournament last year. There are arguments on both sides, and if you're only on the SU side of that argument because you have a connection to SU, that doesn't mean you're correct. Not recognizing the bias in an argument isn't a bragworthy characteristic.

Why don't you go post on a forum for one of those top five coaches' teams then? I mean, you seem to have all kinds of admiration for those elite coaches and all kinds of disdain for the SU coach. I'll bet you could even have some real substantive dialogue, too!

 

[Trueblue25]

Certainly by you he is.

You're the one who started this whole thread off by stating that he was "out-coached" in the first half of the Wisconsin game and that he failed to make adjustments in the second half.

Now you are saying that UW's fast start in the 2nd half was due to JB being out-coached.

I'd say that both those statements are without any merit whatsoever. They are throw-away lines from a frustrated fan who doesn't know 5% of what JB knows about basketball or this team or where they are in the season or what he is trying to achieve.

And quite frankly it's insulting to read this crap.

An adjustment to help "potentially" win this game? Oh, I see. You're just helping out JB with a suggestion that might possibly or potentially help. And sine there is no chance JB is actually going to do this, you get to say "I told you so" if SU loses.

Even if this suggestion is to switch to a defense we never use in games and that the opponents see is almost every game because it couldn't hurt and it might potentially help.

If it's so insulting how about you save yourself some time and put this thread on ignore?

I'll criticize Boeheim's coaching if I'd like, this is a message board. If I'm offending the worshippers of the demigod Jim Boeheim, I am so sorry. We got our butts handed to us the first half, got lucky and cut down the lead, then allowed the same crap to happen the next half. If you don't think there was a lack of coaching adjustments on top of failed execution by the players then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Certainly by you he is.

You're the one who started this whole thread off by stating that he was "out-coached" in the first half of the Wisconsin game and that he failed to make adjustments in the second half.

Now you are saying that UW's fast start in the 2nd half was due to JB being out-coached.

I'd say that both those statements are without any merit whatsoever. They are throw-away lines from a frustrated fan who doesn't know 5% of what JB knows about basketball or this team or where they are in the season or what he is trying to achieve.

And quite frankly it's insulting to read this crap.

An adjustment to help "potentially" win this game? Oh, I see. You're just helping out JB with a suggestion that might possibly or potentially help. And sine there is no chance JB is actually going to do this, you get to say "I told you so" if SU loses.

Even if this suggestion is to switch to a defense we never use in games and that the opponents see is almost every game because it couldn't hurt and it might potentially help.

What's the big deal, honestly? If you are criticizing that poster for his take then you yourself must be open to criticism since you are the other side of the argument because you seem to defend Boeheim with quite the fervor and vigilance.

I posted somewhat about this in an earlier thread today. He WAS outcoached. That is plain as day, my friend. Nobody knew what to do all game on offense and defense except for maybe Coleman on offense. Whether it was all on the players not executing whatever gameplan he and the staff came up with, or, if that strategy was not sound; it is on the coach. He is responsible for the team. If the players come out lifeless in the second half someone must be held accountable. The coach. It's how this thing works.

Boeheim is not above criticism. I appreciate what the man has done past, present, and future for the team, university, community, and beyond. I am not going to be one to say to switch defenses up when things aren't working because I know that will never happen for better or worse. I know he is a defensive guru and with the right parts the zone is very formidable. But, there is a clear trend of some serious offensive woes at Syracuse the past 5 years or so. The offensive efficiency numbers back it up and anyone's own eyes back that up. Not to mention a scandal/sanctions which some just sweep under the rug. We have every right as fans and monetary supporters to question what is going on in terms of the offensive execution, the abilities of the players he is bringing in, development, instruction, etc. I don't see how any true and loyal fan wouldn't. I know you are going to point to last year's F4 but even your (and my) beloved Boeheim has said numerous times how teams shouldn't be judged on the tournament success or not. He singled out Arizona, Virginia, and even Syracuse how they, conversely, did not have a good regular season. We haven't had a good regular season in awhile and it is because of some major offensive declines as of late, imo. This merits questioning.

 

[Townie72]

If it's so insulting how about you save yourself some time and put this thread on ignore?

I'll criticize Boeheim's coaching if I'd like, this is a message board. If I'm offending the worshippers of the demigod Jim Boeheim, I am so sorry. We got our butts handed to us the first half, got lucky and cut down the lead, then allowed the same crap to happen the next half. If you don't think there was a lack of coaching adjustments on top of failed execution by the players then I don't know what to tell you.

You can do it as you have continually. When we get beat it's because of poor coaching and play. When we close the gap, according to you, its because we were lucky.

But don't expect not to be challenged repeatedly with this kind of weak logic.

Wisconsin kicked SU's ass. Right now they are better than SU and not by just a little. They killed us on the boards (40-25), they shot almost 50% from 3 (11 for 23) and they had 21 assists to our 9.

A coaching staff of Adolph Rupp. John Wooden and Red Auerbach couldn't have changed the outcome of that game.

 

[Townie72]

What's the big deal, honestly? If you are criticizing that poster for his take then you yourself must be open to criticism since you are the other side of the argument since you seem to defend Boeheim with quite the fervor and vigilance.

I posted somewhat about this in an earlier thread today. He WAS outcoached. That is plain as day, my friend. Nobody knew what to do all game on offense and defense except for maybe Coleman on offense. Whether it was all on the players not executing whatever gameplan he and the staff came up with, or, if that strategy was not sound; it is on the coach. He is responsible for the team. If the players come out lifeless in the second half someone must be held accountable. The coach. It's how this thing works.

Boeheim is not above criticism. I appreciate what the man has done past, present, and future for the team, university, community, and beyond. I am not going to be one to say to switch defenses up when things aren't working because I know that will never happen for better or worse. I know he is a defensive guru and with the right parts the zone is very formidable. But, there is a clear trend of some serious offensive woes at Syracuse the past 5 years or so. The offensive efficiency numbers back it up and anyone's own eyes back that up. Not to mention a scandal/sanctions which some just sweep under the rug. We have every right as fans and monetary supporters to question what is going on in terms of the offensive execution, the abilities of the players he is bringing in, development, instruction, etc. I don't see how any true and loyal fan wouldn't. I know you are going to point to last year's F4 but even your (and my) beloved Boeheim has said numerous times how teams shouldn't be judged on the tournament. He singled out Arizona, Virginia, and even Syracuse how they, conversely, did not have a good regular season. We haven't had a good regular season in awhile and it is because of some major offensive declines as of late, imo. This merits questioning.

How was he outcoached? Be specific.

You have the right to an opinion. But not the right to be taken seriously or to go unchallenged.

 

[Trueblue25]

You can do it as you have continually. When we get beat it's because of poor coaching and play. When we close the gap, according to you, its because we were lucky.

But don't expect not to be challenged repeatedly with this kind of weak logic.

Wisconsin kicked SU's ass. Right now they are better than SU and not by just a little. They killed us on the boards (40-25), they shot almost 50% from 3 (11 for 23) and they had 21 assists to our 9.

A coaching staff of Adolph Rupp. John Wooden and Red Auerbach couldn't have changed the outcome of that game.

Wisconsin kicked our zone's ass. Wisconsin kicked SU's ass. Greg Gard kicked Jim Boeheims ass.

 

[MadNY3]

Could've adjusted to man to man, it's not the end of the world.

The team looked terrible past two outings, but if your first wish is going M2M, your frustrated without real input. People need to stop wishing for some sort of miraculous understanding of M2M if they cannot get their understanding of the base D, a Syracuse staple for a gazillion years.

 

[Trueblue25]

How was he outcoached? Be specific.

You have the right to an opinion. But not the right to be taken seriously or to go unchallenged.

How was he outcoached? Are you serious? Gard had clear answers to our zone, length, speed, press, and any advantages we may have preconceived. Boeheim had no answer for their perimeter shooting, no answer for their interior scoring, no answer for their defense and our lack of offensive boards and the team was flat.

Again I'm not inferring that this is a common occurrence of Boeheim's. I'm just saying we have too good of a coaching staff to allow/accept without criticism crap like last nights game to happen.

 

[Trueblue25]

The team looked terrible past two outings, but if your first wish is going M2M, your frustrated without real input. People need to stop wishing for some sort of miraculous understanding of M2M if they cannot get their understanding of the base D, a Syracuse staple for a gazillion years.

I'm not talking about the South carolina game. That was a tough defense and a tough team that simply wanted the game more. I only meant we could've tried adjusting to man to man to temporarily offset the Wisconsin offense that was SO CLEARLY shredding our zone up like cheese through a grater.

 

[SoBeCuse]

How was he outcoached? Be specific.

You have the right to an opinion. But not the right to be taken seriously or to go unchallenged.

It's a two-way street. I can't believe I have to explain this but I will then move on. If players aren't being reached then it falls on the coach. If the coach says to get out on Hayes and they fail then he is not reaching them. I did not see any deviation from the abominable sets we were attempting to run. Why wasn't the ball being fed to Coleman or Lydon in the post more often since them scoring in the paint was the only thing working? (aside from White's 1H chucks). Why wasn't there more attention paid to Happ. It all falls on the coach even if the players aren't doing what he says because he clearly isn't reaching them.

 

[Townie72]

Wisconsin kicked our zone's ass. Wisconsin kicked SU's ass. Greg Gard kicked Jim Boeheims ass.

Not nearly good enough a response.

They might have kicked our M2M defense's ass even worse.

Of course, we could have amateur's coach. In this case, that would be you.

 

[MattOB]

Dang I didn't know we were having a contest. I better up my game.

On that note. I'm going into lurker status for awhile and take a little break from the board. Work sucks for me right now and I come here to take my mind off things and to have fun and because I love talking Syracuse basketball. And it's not fun discussing how poorly we are playing the past two games over and over. I still think we're going to have a really good year, but I can't even totally convince myself of that right now. But I'll still be watching every game cheering like heck.

Can't blame you, hope work gets better for you!

 

[Trueblue25]

Not nearly good enough a response.

They might have kicked our M2M defense's ass even worse.

Of course, we could have amateur's coach. In this case, that would be you.

Unless 5 point plays are possible, I don't think you could kick a defense around worse. Then again, I don't coach basketball.

 

[Townie72]

It's a two-way street. I can't believe I have to explain this but I will then move on. If players aren't being reached then it falls on the coach. If the coach says to get out on Hayes and they fail then he is not reaching them. I did not see any deviation from the abominable sets we were attempting to run. Why wasn't the ball being fed to Coleman or Lydon in the post more often since them scoring in the paint was the only thing working? (aside from White's 1H chucks). Why wasn't there more attention paid to Happ. It all falls on the coach even if the players aren't doing what he says because he clearly isn't reaching them.

But they did extend the zone out to attempt to stop the hot (50%) three point shooting. But the Center was able to feed players on the baseline when they did. There was plenty of adjustment going on, but none of it worked. UW is too good and was too hot shooting that night.

Think of this way. There's Boeheim and there's SoBeCuse, sitting in his den eating fritos and drinking Dr Pepper. Who do you think is the credible source on basketball strategy?

You have a right to be frustrated. A right to an opinion. But not a right to be taken seriously as a basketball strategist.

 

[SoBeCuse]

But they did extend the zone out to attempt to stop the hot (50%) three point shooting. But the Center was able to feed players on the baseline when they did. There was plenty of adjustment going on, but none of it worked. UW is too good and was too hot shooting that night.

Think of this way. There's Boeheim and there's SoBeCuse, sitting in his den eating fritos and drinking Dr Pepper. Who do you think is the credible source on basketball strategy?

You have a right to be frustrated. A right to an opinion. But not a right to be taken seriously as a basketball strategist.

I get it now. YOU are Boeheim! Makes sense now. Please ignore my posts from now on since all you can do is mock.

 

[Townie72]

Unless 5 point plays are possible, I don't think you could kick a defense around worse. Then again, I don't coach basketball.

That's always been your argument. That things couldn't get any worse.

Now why is it that you aren't coaching basketball do you think? The money is pretty good, I understand.

The failure last night --- as it will continue to be as this team learns to play together --- was on the offensive side. If we shoot the same percentage as they did from 3, its a 2 pt game.

 

[Trueblue25]

That's always been your argument. That things couldn't get any worse.

Now why is it that you aren't coaching basketball do you think? The money is pretty good, I understand.

The failure last night --- as it will continue to be as this team learns to play together --- was on the offensive side. If we shoot the same percentage as they did from 3, its a 2 pt game.

Always been my argument? In this thread, yeah. Because I don't think things could've gotten much worse in this Wisconsin game. I don't know what history of mine you're pulling from here. I'm one of the most rationally/irrationally positive unwavering supporters of the football and basketball team and I think many would back me up on that.

The only positives I can pull from the Wisconsin game though would be:
Coleman's offensive contributions.
White's transition defense
Gillon's sporadic ability to create offense out of nowhere- at times.
Battle and Thomson getting more experience against good opposition
No injuries.

That's about it.

 

[NineOneSeven]

That's always been your argument. That things couldn't get any worse.

Now why is it that you aren't coaching basketball do you think? The money is pretty good, I understand.

The failure last night --- as it will continue to be as this team learns to play together --- was on the offensive side. If we shoot the same percentage as they did from 3, its a 2 pt game.

You're a clown.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

But they did extend the zone out to attempt to stop the hot (50%) three point shooting. But the Center was able to feed players on the baseline when they did. There was plenty of adjustment going on, but none of it worked. UW is too good and was too hot shooting that night.

Think of this way. There's Boeheim and there's SoBeCuse, sitting in his den eating fritos and drinking Dr Pepper. Who do you think is the credible source on basketball strategy?

You have a right to be frustrated. A right to an opinion. But not a right to be taken seriously as a basketball strategist.

You are clearly the most obnoxious poster on this site. Do you act like this in real life? Do you get punched often?