Anyone else wondering why the dome needs to be replaced today

[GoSU96]

Dome was the star of espn all day. Why don't we want to keep it? What the

It doesn't need to be replaced "today". But there certainty is a good case to be made that it makes economic sense to take the Dome off campus and the community can build a single multi-use facility where SU and other teams and the local minor league teams can be co-tenants.

 

[OttoMets]

Are they going to renovate them or move them to where the Dome is ?

HL was gutted and essentially rebuilt in 1978 or 1979 and I know of no plan to renovate it.

I don't know of any plan to renovate Crouse College, but any such project would be attacked in a piecemeal fashion; they're not going to shut the building down for a long period.

The Falk school will be moving into the former law buildings in a couple years after those buildings are extensively renovated when the law school moves out this spring. The library will renovate and maintain the current law library as a satellite library.

Beyond that, Maxwell is bursting at the seams and very much wants new space close to their existing school. They wanted McNaughton Hall (one of the current law buildings) but were denied in favor of Falk. If anything, I think the university will turn Tolley over to Maxwell and move some undergraduate humanities offices and classrooms elsewhere on campus.

Anything new that SU constructs will be purpose-built (they're not building a new structure to serve as swing space while another building is being renovated) and, of course, funded primarily by donors.

No one is planning anything for the Dome parcel. The next construction on campus will likely be a new donor-funded building at Crouse and Waverly, renovation of Schine post-bookstore construction, and some privately-controlled housing on West Campus (which, again, has been approved for several hundred thousand square feet and is developable and shovel-ready).

 

[SWC75]

That would be the best thing for the overall fan experience.

SU has 13k undergrads and relies on non alum locals more than most college programs. That fact needs to be taken into account when determining location, but more likely than not "urban renewal" will trump common sense.

The inner harbor area has the best combination of existing infrastructure, road net, open, flat, cleared, land, and least disruptive during construction. Talk about shovel ready.

Go to Google Maps and look at the baseball stadium, (just type in "Syracuse Chiefs- I forgot what they are calling the ballpark these days). Look at the area across the railroad tracks. Can't we put a football stadium there?

 

[SU2NASA]

If new stadiums are about maximizing revenue, why move into a smaller one? I wouldn't mind this so much if we were moving into a larger facility with the parking around it. This new place isn't going to "revitalize a neighborhood" if people get off of buses to go to the game and get back on them when it's over. If we're going to move into something better, make it something better.

The Silverdome seated 80,000 and the Lions moved into Ford Field with a capacity of 65,000. It wasn't because of demand since the Lions would routinely fill, or nearly fill, the Silverdome even with crappy teams.

The maximizing of revenue is/will be done through amenities. That's where the real money is. Suites, club levels, private clubs, those bring home far more than your average ticket sales.

The Lions moved downtown, into a smaller stadium where they could raise ticket prices, but more importantly they could have a significant number of suites (which are awesome), multiple club levels, etc.

It's all about amenities these days.

 

[All4SU]

Go to Google Maps and look at the baseball stadium, (just type in "Syracuse Chiefs- I forgot what they are calling the ballpark these days). Look at the area across the railroad tracks. Can't we put a football stadium there?

This is what you are referring to...with the Dome inserted to scale.

 

[Millhouse]

It doesn't need to be replaced "today". But there certainty is a good case to be made that it makes economic sense to take the Dome off campus and the community can build a single multi-use facility where SU and other teams and the local minor league teams can be co-tenants.

eh. i think if there were a good case for it, wouldn't need other peoples money. su and the local minor league teams could all go in on it. i haven't heard a good case for it yet. the only case i've heard is that there is all this stimulus money that will self destruct if we don't act right now

i also haven't heard a good case that the current dome real estate is so valuable. everyone complains about the dome's small footprint. it's hard for me to believe that there isn't some crappy old houses you could buy and knockdown on some other corner of campus for a lot less than 500 million

i'm easy to please with regard to stadiums, i guess. going to games isn't fancy pants for me.

 

[Millhouse]

That is great, I can't stop laughing at the Zima comment

I go to that well way too often here and in real life

 

[jr4750]

HL was gutted and essentially rebuilt in 1978 or 1979 and I know of no plan to renovate it.

I don't know of any plan to renovate Crouse College, but any such project would be attacked in a piecemeal fashion; they're not going to shut the building down for a long period.

The Falk school will be moving into the former law buildings in a couple years after those buildings are extensively renovated when the law school moves out this spring. The library will renovate and maintain the current law library as a satellite library.

Beyond that, Maxwell is bursting at the seams and very much wants new space close to their existing school. They wanted McNaughton Hall (one of the current law buildings) but were denied in favor of Falk. If anything, I think the university will turn Tolley over to Maxwell and move some undergraduate humanities offices and classrooms elsewhere on campus.

Anything new that SU constructs will be purpose-built (they're not building a new structure to serve as swing space while another building is being renovated) and, of course, funded primarily by donors.

No one is planning anything for the Dome parcel. The next construction on campus will likely be a new donor-funded building at Crouse and Waverly, renovation of Schine post-bookstore construction, and some privately-controlled housing on West Campus (which, again, has been approved for several hundred thousand square feet and is developable and shovel-ready).

Otto: What do you think Schine becomes post new bookstore? Also, with the campus seemingly contiuing to move downhill, beyond Marshall, I wonder if development or building of new facilities, such as a renovation of Marshall Square Mall, etc., happens there?

 

[orangecuse]

You're kidding me right. You don't think having a retractable roof state of the stadium with new locker rooms better press areas and ... Would be an upgrade over a concrete walled building with a bubble on top. Get real. Syracuse would not downgrade anything. Whatever they do will be an upgrade and will be player and fan friendly. As for on campus attendance. How about 44k at a duke game with sight lines for every seat in the house.

I'm not sure what you wrote is in any way causally related to my post. You may want to enhance upon your reading comprehension. My response was merely attempting to opine on what the Dome's uniqueness & impact has had on the university from a national & international perspective. Nowhere did I say a new stadium wouldn't be an upgrade, nor a downgrade for that matter. Only, imo, that it wasn't 'needed.' The Dome is still an excellent place to take in a football and basketball game, making improvements would make it that much better. Moreover, if you truly believe that a stadium that will hold 44k for football will all have excellent sight lines for "every seat in the house" for hoops, well...

If, and that's a monumental if, the new stadium is truly "state of the art" (which is improbable due to the precise amount of funds necessary for that) with all the bells and whistles, it still, imo, will not elevate this program in the same exponential fashion as the Dome post Manly. Especially, if it is built off campus. There are numerous beautiful new stadiums in muliple cities across this country, many in which, are hardly unique. Just my $.02...

 

[OttoMets]

Otto: What do you think Schine becomes post new bookstore? Also, with the campus seemingly contiuing to move downhill, beyond Marshall, I wonder if development or building of new facilities, such as a renovation of Marshall Square Mall, etc., happens there?

I think the bookstore wing of Schine will become some mix of classroom space and student organization offices. Nothing fancy.

Off the top of my head, I don't know if the PID crosses Marshall Street (though I'd guess it does). If SU hasn't maxed out the development capacity up there, I'm sure they wouldn't mind demolishing the mall and building something taller and denser on its footprint (and on the adjacent parking lot off Adams, which SU owns).

But, as with the Dome, demolition, relocation, and new construction is a more expensive process than construction on a vacant lot. With no shortage of vacant lots under University control [the Lehman/Harrison parcel north of Adams, for instance], a less pressing space crunch than what existed early in the early Cantor years, and some financial constraints in coming decades (as a result of the building boom in the early Cantor years), most new construction is likely to take place on such vacant lots.

Again, none of that bears on certain parties' push for a new publicly-funded stadium off campus. But no one on the Hill is clamoring to clear the Dome parcel for future development.

 

[TexanMark]

I'm not sure what you wrote is in any way causally related to my post. You may want to enhance upon your reading comprehension. My response was merely attempting to opine on what the Dome's uniqueness & impact has had on the university from a national & international perspective. Nowhere did I say a new stadium wouldn't be an upgrade, nor a downgrade for that matter. Only, imo, that it wasn't 'needed.' The Dome is still an excellent place to take in a football and basketball game, making improvements would make it that much better. Moreover, if you truly believe that a stadium that will hold 44k for football will all have excellent sight lines for "every seat in the house" for hoops, well...

If, and that's a monumental if, the new stadium is truly "state of the art" (which is improbable due to the precise amount of funds necessary for that) with all the bells and whistles, it still, imo, will not elevate this program in the same exponential fashion as the Dome post Manly. Especially, if it is built off campus. There are numerous beautiful new stadiums in muliple cities across this country, many in which, are hardly unique. Just my $.02...

I prefer the Inner Harbor Area..but if built in the other location it would be pretty close to campus. No other college FB team would play in a Dome with a retractable roof. I think that makes it pretty special.. I understand the Dome is on campus but SU can't find enough donors to drop serious coinage to fund a Dome on campus. Al Davis apparently left SU nothing or close to it. The Carrier Dome was built on the cheap and crammed into too small a footprint. Those that say renovate...that is fine but where do you play FB/Hoops games during the reno?

 

[jr4750]

I think the bookstore wing of Schine will become some mix of classroom space and student organization offices. Nothing fancy.

Off the top of my head, I don't know if the PID crosses Marshall Street (though I'd guess it does). If SU hasn't maxed out the development capacity up there, I'm sure they wouldn't mind demolishing the mall and building something taller and denser on its footprint (and on the adjacent parking lot off Adams, which SU owns).

But, as with the Dome, demolition, relocation, and new construction is a more expensive process than construction on a vacant lot. With no shortage of vacant lots under University control [the Lehman/Harrison parcel north of Adams, for instance], a less pressing space crunch than what existed early in the early Cantor years, and some financial constraints in coming decades (as a result of the building boom in the early Cantor years), most new construction is likely to take place on such vacant lots.

Again, none of that bears on certain parties' push for a new publicly-funded stadium off campus. But no one on the Hill is clamoring to clear the Dome parcel for future development.

Would you characterize the Cantor years as being especially ambitious in infrastructure development? It seems the school wants to, or has to slow down considerably in the next 5 - 10 years, outside of donor specific or publicly funded (stadium) building? You mentioned Maxwell being stretched for space and as a preeminent program at SU and nationally, I would hope they would accommodate them in the near term.

 

[jr4750]

I prefer the Inner Harbor Area..but if built in the other location it would be pretty close to campus. No other college FB team would play in a Dome with a retractable roof. I think that makes it pretty special.. I understand the Dome is on campus but SU can't find enough donors to drop serious coinage to fund a Dome on campus. Al Davis apparently left SU nothing or close to it. The Carrier Dome was built on the cheap and crammed into too small a footprint. Those that say renovate...that is fine but where do you play FB/Hoops games during the reno?

Biggest question by far Mark. Fans would not tolerate a year of away games, and a program of our stature could not do that feasibly. Imagine an entire year of no dome hoops games. I'm sure JB would be all for that! :bat: Better yet, who'll get the honor of telling him, should he still be coaching. yikes!

 

[GoSU96]

Go to Google Maps and look at the baseball stadium, (just type in "Syracuse Chiefs- I forgot what they are calling the ballpark these days). Look at the area across the railroad tracks. Can't we put a football stadium there?

Why there?

From an existing accessibility perspective it's horrible. Wedged between 81, Ley Creek and Train Tracks from the north side, nearest surface street is 7th North, which there are a bunch of existing business between there and the road

 

[supp]

eh. i think if there were a good case for it, wouldn't need other peoples money. su and the local minor league teams could all go in on it. i haven't heard a good case for it yet. the only case i've heard is that there is all this stimulus money that will self destruct if we don't act right now

i also haven't heard a good case that the current dome real estate is so valuable. everyone complains about the dome's small footprint. it's hard for me to believe that there isn't some crappy old houses you could buy and knockdown on some other corner of campus for a lot less than 500 million

i'm easy to please with regard to stadiums, i guess. going to games isn't fancy pants for me.

Bang Boom Zip Wallop Kapow!

 

[IthacaMatt]

Are they going to renovate them or move them to where the Dome is ?

There's going to be renovation of the existing buildings, as I understand it, but major upgrades to structural and mechanical systems are necessary. I think the University wants more academic buildings where the Dome is currently located, and/or maybe more dorms.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Go to Google Maps and look at the baseball stadium, (just type in "Syracuse Chiefs- I forgot what they are calling the ballpark these days). Look at the area across the railroad tracks. Can't we put a football stadium there?

Floods every Spring, and every time there's a heavy rain.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

just build it at destiny and pretend that was the plan all along. bring back the train from school to make it easy for the kids. tailgate, eat at 20 places see a movie after..

Inner harbor was my thought. Monorail from south campus, to campus, to downtown, to bus station, to Armory, to new Dome, to Destiny, to train station to, airport and back.

 

[OttoMets]

Would you characterize the Cantor years as being especially ambitious in infrastructure development? It seems the school wants to, or has to slow down considerably in the next 5 - 10 years, outside of donor specific or publicly funded (stadium) building? You mentioned Maxwell being stretched for space and as a preeminent program at SU and nationally, I would hope they would accommodate them in the near term.

I wouldn't say that that era was unusually ambitious, but the school did build a lot more than it did during the Shaw era. We've gotten to a pretty good place in terms of the physical plant (though there's always more to do). Accommodating Maxwell will be a priority and will happen in some capacity.

We'll probably see a lot in the way of renovations in coming years (like the recently-completed and very attractive Carnegie Library renovation). All the Eggers-era buildings are suddenly a generation old and, in many cases, untouched.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Dome was the star of espn all day. Why don't we want to keep it? What the

If you wait until its needed, its too late.
New multi use, retracable roof stadium. SU sports, hockey MLL, soccer, baseball, yes baseball, both SUand Chiefs, softball, sectional championships, state championsihps, other Dome like events, even equestrain, if its a grass field, conventions, dare I say Final Four, Place could be in use 365. Lotso fc ommerce.

 

[GoSU96]

If you wait until its needed, its too late.
New multi use, retracable roof stadium. SU sports, hockey MLL, soccer, baseball, yes baseball, both SUand Chiefs, softball, sectional championships, state championsihps, other Dome like events, even equestrain, if its a grass field, conventions, dare I say Final Four, Place could be in use 365. Lotso fc ommerce.

Baseball/Softball isn't going to work because of the geometry between the two types of fields and the desire to keep the sight lines and look and feel of the dome. It just wont work.

Final four, yes, for everything but Men's basketball.

 

[GoSU96]

Floods every Spring, and every time there's a heavy rain.

Looks like a flood plain.

 

[jr4750]

I wouldn't say that that era was unusually ambitious, but the school did build a lot more than it did during the Shaw era. We've gotten to a pretty good place in terms of the physical plant (though there's always more to do). Accommodating Maxwell will be a priority and will happen in some capacity.

We'll probably see a lot in the way of renovations in coming years (like the recently-completed and very attractive Carnegie Library renovation). All the Eggers-era buildings are suddenly a generation old and, in many cases, untouched.

Yes, I saw the Carnegie redesign, very impressive. Hope they do that to a bunch of the older buildings, bringing them back into their glory. Also be interesting to see if the Couri Center is ever started... I know we chatted about that in the past.

 

[SWC75]

Why there?

From an existing accessibility perspective it's horrible. Wedged between 81, Ley Creek and Train Tracks from the north side, nearest surface street is 7th North, which there are a bunch of existing business between there and the road

There's far more room there than the place they are proposing. And you've good several major roads and a train station there. You could redo the rain tracks to put an access road over or under them. There could be a walkway to destiny and the baseball park. I'm no expert on these things but looking at the map it seemed like a good spot. I recall there was a plan to build part of Destiny there at one point.You could even use the ball park parking lot as overflow for the stadium parking. Many cities have two such facilities adjacent to each other.

 

[SWC75]

Looks like a flood plain.

The entire Syracuse area was once a swamp.