"athletic" "unathletic" - please define as these terms pertain to basketball | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

"athletic" "unathletic" - please define as these terms pertain to basketball

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Exactly. Girard was the QB of a state championship football team. “Athletically” he’s not in the top 1%. He’s in the top POINT ONE %

Joe is reasonably athletic, but is not being put in his best role on the floor. If Joe was your off guard, he would be a much more effective player. Think about Joe compared to Trevor Cooney. If all he had to do was run off the ball for open shots, and give the occasional help bringing the ball up against the press, I think he'd be outstanding. Maybe a little short on defense, but he's big on hustle.
 
this team isnt as naturally athletic as most we will be playing but SU also seems to never focus on strength and conditioning during the off season.

When you look at other programs you see a big jump in a players strength and physicality between their first couple of years and you hardly ever see SU players take that jump.

I’m hoping the next SU staff puts a little more focus on the weight room.
 
Athleticism is a spectrum. Conversations on athleticism is all relative based on what is being compared.

Syracuse Men’s Basketball is more athletic than Bishop Ludden HS Boy’s Basketball.

Villanova Men’s Basketball is more athletic than Syracuse Men’s Basketball.

Philadelphia 76ers Basketball is more athletic than Villanova Men’s Basketball.

On the basketball spectrum, it’s generally better to have the more athletic team, if the other variables are similar.
 
there's no "faith" at all - I see the two terms bandied about in virtually every post on here I read, often in distinctly different context - I find them to be default/nebulous terms applied in an echo chamber sort of way, was hoping for some clearer definition
I Dont Believe You Will Ferrell GIF
 
If you can’t tell the difference I just don’t know how to explain it.Pretty obvious to anyone that watches basketball.
If you have to say it’s pretty obvious, it isn’t all that obvious.
 
Athleticism is a spectrum. Conversations on athleticism is all relative based on what is being compared.

Syracuse Men’s Basketball is more athletic than Bishop Ludden HS Boy’s Basketball.

Villanova Men’s Basketball is more athletic than Syracuse Men’s Basketball.

Philadelphia 76ers Basketball is more athletic than Villanova Men’s Basketball.

On the basketball spectrum, it’s generally better to have the more athletic team, if the other variables are similar.
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Hakim Warrick was athletic.

Craig Forth was not.

Craig Forth is not getting out to block that jumper.

That is all I got.

But if he misses the shot, and we win anyway, does that make Forth athletic?

I think that's the question we're trying to answer? Maybe. I'm really confused.
 
Or, maybe you (and many others) could come out and plainly say what they mean by "athletic"?
Many have. I described it pretty specifically in a previous post. Others did it before me.
 
This topic actually facinates me and ive done a fair share of reading on the subject. Fast twitch vs slow twitch muscularity only captures a portion of the American definition of athletic ability (I say American, because if you were to ask a European, for example, who is more athletic, a soccer player or an American football player and you will get a very different answer than the typical response in this forum).
As for your assertion about geography and athletic ability, well, that's a very debatable and highly subjective take that has been disproven in many studies and not disproven in others (in other words, the evidence is inconclusive and the studies are often tainted). And there have been other studies that have shown the body can convert fast-twitch to slow-twitch fibers and vice versa through targeted training, which would suggest that there may be non-genetic factors at play in developing explosive power.
As for the Sicilian thing, it doesn't hold up that the genetic influence of African invaders/traders have somehow created athletes with fast-twitch dominant bidies. I suspect that this "thing" in recruiting that you refer to is at best ignorance and at worst, racist- based misinformation. The muslim invaders/conquerors of Sicily came from northern Africa (modern day Algeria, Libya and Tunisia). If there was truth to the theory, you would expect to see an abundance of explosive athletes from these countries (or Sicily for that matter), but this isn't the case, in fact, anecdotal evidence (Olympic summer games results) suggests it's the opposite.

Anyway, there's a lot more to unpack on this subject and I don't want to write anymore and I doubt anyone else has made it thus far. There's a lot of info on the subject out there if anyone cares to broaden their understanding of genetic, social and economic factors on athletic performance.
thanks for education on the regionality/geography part, wow.

Sounds like you've really checked into it. Relaying what I was told years and years ago when I was dabbling in the business, and in point of fact was told that flat out by a Syracuse coach when they we're recruiting me. Same by the coaches in the school I ultimately went to and recruited for, but yeah after reading your reasoned take, analysis and critique I can see the possible (and likely) simplistic unreality of an outdated theory and that a broad based painting of something told to me 40 years ago as relayed here, is very likely off.

Rather gonna stick with maybe true on an individual basis here and there (me for example!). Thanks for taking the time with that and heck yeah love to hear more about your last sentence. .
 
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thanks for education on the regionality/geography part, wow.

Sounds like you've really checked into it. Relaying what I was told years and years ago when I was dabbling in the business, and in point of fact was told that flat out by a Syracuse coach when they we're recruiting me. Same by the coaches in the school I ultimately went to and recruited for, but yeah after reading your reasoned take, analysis and critique I can see the possible (and likely) simplistic unreality in a broad based painting of something told to me 40 years ago as relayed here, rather gonna stick with maybe true on an individual basis here and there (me for example!). Thanks for taking the time with that and heck yeah love to hear more about your last sentence. .
This book might be of interest...
 
Ok Chief you talked me into it.
Watch a replay of last nights Syracuse game and that will give you the answer to which team is athletic and which team is not very athletic.
I don’t think it’s very hard to see one team was stronger and used that strength and jumping ability
to just completely dominate the less athletic team.
Completely dominate? We led for most of the game.
 
Completely dominate? We led for most of the game.
I guess I should of added “The boards” because were completely dominated all game.Seemed like Villanova got 3 shots every possession.
 
I had to go 24 rounds in the Girard thread when I was complimenting the kid but this thread is just totally kosher.

Amazing.

Some interesting choices by the mods.

Here’s my answer: when you can leverage your prowess of being bigger, faster and stronger to complete the goals of your sport more efficiently and frequently than those of the people that cannot achieve that same level.
 
I think its reasonable to think my SU all time unathletic team of Edelin, Janulis, Buddy, Blackwell and Rick Jackson team could beat Flynn, Waiters, Wes, Grant and Christmas team some of the time. It wouldn't make them more athletic, it would make them good at basketball. But I'll take the athletic guys over the "unathletic" any day. Better yet, I'd take a mix of the two (kind of like Wisconsin).

Of course you can win games if you don't have the best athletes on the floor but if you want to be good and contend for championships you better have a 2 or 3 guys that can defend or rebound or beat their man off the dribble. And those guys need to be trusted to play more then 10% of the game.
 
I think its reasonable to think my SU all time unathletic team of Edelin, Janulis, Buddy, Blackwell and Rick Jackson team could beat Flynn, Waiters, Wes, Grant and Christmas team some of the time. It wouldn't make them more athletic, it would make them good at basketball. But I'll take the athletic guys over the "unathletic" any day. Better yet, I'd take a mix of the two (kind of like Wisconsin).

Of course you can win games if you don't have the best athletes on the floor but if you want to be good and contend for championships you better have a 2 or 3 guys that can defend or rebound or beat their man off the dribble. And those guys need to be trusted to play more then 10% of the game.


You picked good fair teams to illustrate the point that you can have a terrific team that leans mostly to skills, and another that leans mostly to athleticism, and they can both be full of good players.

I think the *best* teams have the right mix of athleticism and basketball skill.

On my "ideal team" - You need a couple athletic wings and a guard who can get to the basket. You need a guy with muscle and lower body strength, at least sometimes, down low. You also need a guy who can get up and protect the rim. Those are your athletic "requirements".

On the skills side, you need a couple guys who can handle the ball well. You need at least 2 or 3 good passers. You need big guys who know how to box out, and scorers who know how to move without the ball.

It's the teams that have the most answers to those questions - "Do you have a guy who can do THIS on your team?" - the more of those questions you have an answer for, the more complete your team is.
 
If you say so, but I honestly can’t understand how it is difficult to tell the difference between a athletic guy vs a guy who may be good at basketball but not have great athletic abilities.
Nobody is going to claim Larry Bird had great athletic ability, but he is obviously one of the best to ever play the game.
His athletic ability was undersold due to his race. Can’t do what he did and not be a great athlete. Scored 30 points on game playing the whole game left handed. That was an NBA game, BTW.
Being able to jump really high or not doesn’t mean your a great athlete. Quickness is underrated as an athletic ability, in my mind, and more important than flat out speed.
Ask swimmers to do anything outside of swimming; good luck.
IMO, great divers are the best athletes, followed by gymnasts.
 
Keith Van Horn, when he was on the Nets teams that were great, could run the break really fast for a big guy, and he had jumping skills. He could really throw down flying dunks on the break. He wasn't the strongest guy and didn't have great lateral speed on defense, but he could run and jump.

Agreed - there is a reason he went #2 in the draft. It was probably more an "athletic" based draft pick then skill based. Another reason the more athletic comparison to a #2 overall pick was insane (I know it was only one fan)

That being said, Marek deliver a solid workmanlike career. So not trying to slam him in any way.
 
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