Clayton. Welch. | Page 6 | Syracusefan.com

Clayton. Welch.

rrlbees said:
Lot of stupid takes today. Are you on competition with couscous?
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Bees. Your takes are simply your opinion. Others are entitled to theirs. My opinion is that there is a chance that Tommy and his family will take a hard look at what is in his best interest and what will help him achieve his goal of making it to the NFL. This is a kid who has parents that have invested an enormous amount of time and money trying to create an NFL QB. His Dad who i have communicated with and who was an excellent poster on this board has expressed concern and frustration with various elements of the program. Now that his son has been injured, and the staff has failed to put him in a position to showcase his skills i believe that they will review his options. I know that if i was his Father i would. Wouldn't you?
 
kcsu said:
Bees. Your takes are simply your opinion. Others are entitled to theirs. My opinion is that there is a chance that Tommy and his family will take a hard look at what is in his best interest and what will help him achieve his goal of making it to the NFL. This is a kid who has parents that have invested an enormous amount of time and money trying to create an NFL QB. His Dad who i have communicated with and who was an excellent poster on this board has expressed concern and frustration with various elements of the program. Now that his son has been injured, and the staff has failed to put him in a position to showcase his skills i believe that they will review his options. I know that if i was his Father i would. Wouldn't you?
Expand...

that’s not what you said, and it wasn’t written as an opinion
 
Welch's accuracy is obviously not good but he did try and at least give our receivers a chance to fight for some balls. The offensive line is borderline committing human rights violations every game by allowing any and every defender a free shot on our quarterback every passing play. It's hard for anybody to be willing to stand back there and take some shots and get ready to compete just as hard on the next play. Dungey had that mindset because, while his lines weren't THIS atrocious, he played behind some mediocre offensive lines early. Welch sort of has that same fight and tenacity, which is required when you field the offensive line that our hopefully soon-to-be fired offensive line coach, Cavanaugh, has developed. Devito does not have that midset. He is obviously the more talented thrower, has vastly higher potential, and is probably more athletic but he is not the grinder needed when playing behind this offensive line. Devito is a fantastic 7 on 7 quarterback but he gets rattled under pressure. It's obviously exacerbated as we have played tougher and tougher teams that are just teeing off on him but there was evidence of this in the earlier games that we won. Combine his seemingly natural skittishness in the face of pressuring lineman and the turnstiles that are our lineman, it is a recipe for a disastrous offense. It's also resulted in more intentional grounding penalties than I've ever seen, and the sad thing is I think there could have been more called against us.

You worry if this year will have a long-run impact on Devito's pocket-presence, which wasn't great to start. The David Carr-effect. But the shakiness when being pressured was still there versus Liberty and Western Michigan when there were times he actually had some blocking. And when he does get pressured his initial instinct always seems to retreat backward before going forward so his sacks feel like they are at a longer distance and his eyes are never back downfield. Welch made a few good moves in the pocket to step up and make the defensive end miss and scramble around looking downfield. Unfortunately his throwing ability limits his possibility for success stemming from his decent pocket awareness, but he created himself some time.

Welch's deep ball is a lob that is bound to be picked off some but it also allowed Taj to run up under it and other guys to try and make some plays, even if it was a pass interference. Devito has gotten gun-shy and stops looking downfield after the first drive or two, which is why you see Taj Harris fuming when he's not even given an opportunity when he feels like he is open. Devito is the 7 on 7 style quarterback built to be the gunslinger flinging the ball all across the field but mentally, this year at the very least, he's become afraid to look deep. Now he obviously has a valid reason for being jumpy behind this line but we won't be winning anything this way. I'd rather he get healthy and possibly prepare for coming back later in the season or next year. He's got a lot of work to do to improve and rebuild his mental processes and progressions, along with his pocket presence.

Is Welch the better quarterback? Of course not. Is he the quarterback of the future? Obviously not. Is he the better option, for this team, for next game behind this disgraceful offensive line and over the injured, and rattled, talented passer in Devito? I certainly believe that is possible and up for debate. At worst it needs to be genuinely thought about by Dino because there are a multitude of things that need to be altered in this offense for the rest of the year.

TL;DR Version: Tommy is the better, talented passer but our offensive line is so bad, and Devito is terrified back there seemingly every game now, that Welch may be the better option for the next game. It deserves discussion at worst.
 
tbonezone said:
not sure quitting builds character. fighting thru difficulties does.
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Its not about Quitting. This is a two way street. Dino has an obligation to uphold his end of this. Its obvious that our OLine issues are much deeper than Heckel being injured. Cross training hasn't worked, the underbelly is weak, coaching has been poor, game calling has been worse... The reality is Tommy doesn't have the tools around him be it offensive lineman or coaches doing their jobs. The kid has done his end now its up to the coaches to do theirs. If anyone has quit it certainly isn't Tommy.
 
GoSU96 said:
that’s not what you said, and it wasn’t written as an opinion
Expand...
Tommy will most likely Transfer. Is an opinion. Not a fact. I dont get your point.
 
kcsu said:
Bees. Your takes are simply your opinion. Others are entitled to theirs. My opinion is that there is a chance that Tommy and his family will take a hard look at what is in his best interest and what will help him achieve his goal of making it to the NFL. This is a kid who has parents that have invested an enormous amount of time and money trying to create an NFL QB. His Dad who i have communicated with and who was an excellent poster on this board has expressed concern and frustration with various elements of the program. Now that his son has been injured, and the staff has failed to put him in a position to showcase his skills i believe that they will review his options. I know that if i was his Father i would. Wouldn't you?
Expand...

I wouldn't be stunned if Devito transferred, especially considering his dad at the Liberty tailgate told people not to expect Devito to make it to his senior year, eligibility-wise, as he would be getting drafted. Is it fair to think about his transfer options? Yes. But you can't expect him to have a big support system here for it.
 
gocraz4dasu said:
Welch's accuracy is obviously not good but he did try and at least give our receivers a chance to fight for some balls. The offensive line is borderline committing human rights violations every game by allowing any and every defender a free shot on our quarterback every passing play. It's hard for anybody to be willing to stand back there and take some shots and get ready to compete just as hard on the next play. Dungey had that mindset because, while his lines weren't THIS atrocious, he played behind some mediocre offensive lines early. Welch sort of has that same fight and tenacity, which is required when you field the offensive line that our hopefully soon-to-be fired offensive line coach, Cavanaugh, has developed. Devito does not have that midset. He is obviously the more talented thrower, has vastly higher potential, and is probably more athletic but he is not the grinder needed when playing behind this offensive line. Devito is a fantastic 7 on 7 quarterback but he gets rattled under pressure. It's obviously exacerbated as we have played tougher and tougher teams that are just teeing off on him but there was evidence of this in the earlier games that we won. Combine his seemingly natural skittishness in the face of pressuring lineman and the turnstiles that are our lineman, it is a recipe for a disastrous offense. It's also resulted in more intentional grounding penalties than I've ever seen, and the sad thing is I think there could have been more called against us.

You worry if this year will have a long-run impact on Devito's pocket-presence, which wasn't great to start. The David Carr-effect. But the shakiness when being pressured was still there versus Liberty and Western Michigan when there were times he actually had some blocking. And when he does get pressured his initial instinct always seems to retreat backward before going forward so his sacks feel like they are at a longer distance and his eyes are never back downfield. Welch made a few good moves in the pocket to step up and make the defensive end miss and scramble around looking downfield. Unfortunately his throwing ability limits his possibility for success stemming from his decent pocket awareness, but he created himself some time.

Welch's deep ball is a lob that is bound to be picked off some but it also allowed Taj to run up under it and other guys to try and make some plays, even if it was a pass interference. Devito has gotten gun-shy and stops looking downfield after the first drive or two, which is why you see Taj Harris fuming when he's not even given an opportunity when he feels like he is open. Devito is the 7 on 7 style quarterback built to be the gunslinger flinging the ball all across the field but mentally, this year at the very least, he's become afraid to look deep. Now he obviously has a valid reason for being jumpy behind this line but we won't be winning anything this way. I'd rather he get healthy and possibly prepare for coming back later in the season or next year. He's got a lot of work to do to improve and rebuild his mental processes and progressions, along with his pocket presence.

Is Welch the better quarterback? Of course not. Is he the quarterback of the future? Obviously not. Is he the better option, for this team, for next game behind this disgraceful offensive line and over the injured, and rattled, talented passer in Devito? I certainly believe that is possible and up for debate. At worst it needs to be genuinely thought about by Dino because there are a multitude of things that need to be altered in this offense for the rest of the year.

TL;DR Version: Tommy is the better, talented passer but our offensive line is so bad, and Devito is terrified back there seemingly every game now, that Welch may be the better option for the next game. It deserves discussion at worst.
Expand...

All of this, thanks for taking what I’ve been trying to say and putting it into a well thought out post
 
kcsu said:
Bees. Your takes are simply your opinion. Others are entitled to theirs. My opinion is that there is a chance that Tommy and his family will take a hard look at what is in his best interest and what will help him achieve his goal of making it to the NFL. This is a kid who has parents that have invested an enormous amount of time and money trying to create an NFL QB. His Dad who i have communicated with and who was an excellent poster on this board has expressed concern and frustration with various elements of the program. Now that his son has been injured, and the staff has failed to put him in a position to showcase his skills i believe that they will review his options. I know that if i was his Father i would. Wouldn't you?
Expand...

Don’t begrudge anyone for doing what’s in their best interest but helicopter parents rarely accomplish their goals. Sometimes they need to look in the mirror. He won’t be an NFL quarterback if he can’t read a defense or deal with pressure.
 
gocraz4dasu said:
Welch's accuracy is obviously not good but he did try and at least give our receivers a chance to fight for some balls. The offensive line is borderline committing human rights violations every game by allowing any and every defender a free shot on our quarterback every passing play. It's hard for anybody to be willing to stand back there and take some shots and get ready to compete just as hard on the next play. Dungey had that mindset because, while his lines weren't THIS atrocious, he played behind some mediocre offensive lines early. Welch sort of has that same fight and tenacity, which is required when you field the offensive line that our hopefully soon-to-be fired offensive line coach, Cavanaugh, has developed. Devito does not have that midset. He is obviously the more talented thrower, has vastly higher potential, and is probably more athletic but he is not the grinder needed when playing behind this offensive line. Devito is a fantastic 7 on 7 quarterback but he gets rattled under pressure. It's obviously exacerbated as we have played tougher and tougher teams that are just teeing off on him but there was evidence of this in the earlier games that we won. Combine his seemingly natural skittishness in the face of pressuring lineman and the turnstiles that are our lineman, it is a recipe for a disastrous offense. It's also resulted in more intentional grounding penalties than I've ever seen, and the sad thing is I think there could have been more called against us.

You worry if this year will have a long-run impact on Devito's pocket-presence, which wasn't great to start. The David Carr-effect. But the shakiness when being pressured was still there versus Liberty and Western Michigan when there were times he actually had some blocking. And when he does get pressured his initial instinct always seems to retreat backward before going forward so his sacks feel like they are at a longer distance and his eyes are never back downfield. Welch made a few good moves in the pocket to step up and make the defensive end miss and scramble around looking downfield. Unfortunately his throwing ability limits his possibility for success stemming from his decent pocket awareness, but he created himself some time.

Welch's deep ball is a lob that is bound to be picked off some but it also allowed Taj to run up under it and other guys to try and make some plays, even if it was a pass interference. Devito has gotten gun-shy and stops looking downfield after the first drive or two, which is why you see Taj Harris fuming when he's not even given an opportunity when he feels like he is open. Devito is the 7 on 7 style quarterback built to be the gunslinger flinging the ball all across the field but mentally, this year at the very least, he's become afraid to look deep. Now he obviously has a valid reason for being jumpy behind this line but we won't be winning anything this way. I'd rather he get healthy and possibly prepare for coming back later in the season or next year. He's got a lot of work to do to improve and rebuild his mental processes and progressions, along with his pocket presence.

Is Welch the better quarterback? Of course not. Is he the quarterback of the future? Obviously not. Is he the better option, for this team, for next game behind this disgraceful offensive line and over the injured, and rattled, talented passer in Devito? I certainly believe that is possible and up for debate. At worst it needs to be genuinely thought about by Dino because there are a multitude of things that need to be altered in this offense for the rest of the year.

TL;DR Version: Tommy is the better, talented passer but our offensive line is so bad, and Devito is terrified back there seemingly every game now, that Welch may be the better option for the next game. It deserves discussion at worst.
Expand...
This "DeVito is a 7on7 QB" narrative is weird to me.

We have no running game. None.

The only way we move the ball is through the air. Even if you take out DeVito's yardage and attempts, we average 3.7 yards per carry if my math is right. That would tie us for 92nd in the country right now with 7 other teams, except we're worse than that because those programs have their sack yardage included in that average and I pulled DeVito's out.

We're ranked 122nd for rushing yards per attempt currently counting everything. That's half a yard worse than the offensive juggernaut we know as Rutgers, and .2 yards per carry better than the mighty UCONN Contract Incentives.

Reducing DeVito to a 7on7 all-star... I can't do it when our offense is so completely one dimensional.
 
I hope Tommy is ok but that didn't look good, keep your head up and get better soon.

As for Welch, it'll be interesting to see how Babers gameplans for him and how teams game plan for him. He'll get QB1 reps so maybe that will help him get more chemistry with his receivers. Those short throws are what we saw in the spring and let's hope he can throw a better % of short throws than we saw last night.

He let his receivers fight for the ball which was good to see and the WR's have to get better at going to the ball, especially now. I'm hoping his running ability can keep the D a bit more honest and not let them pin their ears back going after the QB which they did with TD because he wasn't elusive in the pocket or out of it. I think we have Mahoney 2.0 as he too struggled big time with those short throws. This is going to be an interesting ride...let's hope this OL wakes the heck up.
 
Last edited:
SmilinBob said:
I hope Tommy is ok but that didn't look good, keep your head up and get better soon.

As for Welch, it'll be interesting to see how Babers gameplans for him and how teams game plan for him. He'll get QB1 reps so maybe that will help him get more chemistry with his receivers. Those short throws are we saw in the spring and let's hope he can throw a better % of short throws than we saw last night.

He let his receivers fight for the ball which was good to see and the WR's have to get at going to the ball, especially now. I'm hoping his running ability can keep the D a bit more honest and not let them pin their ears back going after the QB which they did with TD because he wasn't elusive in the pocket or out of it. I think we have Mahoney 2.0 as he too struggled big time with those short throws. This is going to be an interesting ride...let's hope this OL wakes the heck up.
Expand...
Sports fans, if we have Mahoney 2.0... we're boned.
 
kcsu said:
Bees. Your takes are simply your opinion. Others are entitled to theirs. My opinion is that there is a chance that Tommy and his family will take a hard look at what is in his best interest and what will help him achieve his goal of making it to the NFL. This is a kid who has parents that have invested an enormous amount of time and money trying to create an NFL QB. His Dad who i have communicated with and who was an excellent poster on this board has expressed concern and frustration with various elements of the program. Now that his son has been injured, and the staff has failed to put him in a position to showcase his skills i believe that they will review his options. I know that if i was his Father i would. Wouldn't you?
Expand...

Keep digging deeper.
 
I think the sane people need to stop calling out the insane people as if they're the ones framing the narrative.

They're not. The lunatic fringe doesn't run this place, I'm surprised more of you haven't learned to ignore it by now.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
This "DeVito is a 7on7 QB" narrative is weird to me.

We have no running game. None.

The only way we move the ball is through the air. Even if you take out DeVito's yardage and attempts, we average 3.7 yards per carry if my math is right. That would tie us for 92nd in the country right now with 7 other teams, except we're worse than that because those programs have their sack yardage included in that average and I pulled DeVito's out.

We're ranked 122nd for rushing yards per attempt currently counting everything. That's half a yard worse than the offensive juggernaut we know as Rutgers, and .2 yards per carry better than the mighty UCONN Contract Incentives.

Reducing DeVito to a 7on7 all-star... I can't do it when our offense is so completely one dimensional.
Expand...

I ranted about my hatred for the rushing scheme in the game thread so I'm not going to disagree with you there. I loathe it.

Am I potentially wrong in my assessment of Devito this year? Maybe. But he really hasn't shown much. That can be attributed to many things but he is obviously not comfortable at helm right now and I believe it deserves some thought whether or not he should be our starter for next game. Let him heal and hopefully some of that shakiness disappears, but I do believe some of that pocket erratic-ness is innate. We are all clinging to basically two halves of football last year as signs of his outstanding potential.
 
OttoinGrotto said:
Sports fans, if we have Mahoney 2.0... we're boned.
Expand...

I see a lot of similarities which is fine for a 3rd string QB but the kid that failed out from Texas left a huge hole and Dino sadly didn't have time or the abiltiy to fix it.
 
gocraz4dasu said:
I ranted about my hatred for the rushing scheme in the game thread so I'm not going to disagree with you there. I loathe it.

Am I potentially wrong in my assessment of Devito this year? Maybe. But he really hasn't shown much. That can be attributed to many things but he is obviously not comfortable at helm right now and I believe it deserves some thought whether or not he should be our starter for next game. Let him heal and hopefully some of that shakiness disappears, but I do believe some of that pocket erratic-ness is innate. We are all clinging to basically two halves of football last year as signs of his outstanding potential.
Expand...
What would he need to do to to change your mind about him not showing you much?
 
I don’t know how bad Tommy is hurt . He seemed ok on sidelines. Posts range from ok to 8 broken ribs and skull fracture. Might actually be positive for Tommy to sit a game and take things in from sideline while getting healthy. Not expecting to beat FSU with Welch but hell, what have we got to lose at this point in season.
 
So what have we learned from this game?

"They would have won the last 2 games and be 5-2 with CW as the starter."

"there is very little room in college football for pure passers."

"Tommy will most likely transfer."

"there’s no way you can tell me that Welch shouldn’t have been starting this season from day 1"

"the team would rather play with Welch"

In other words, nothing.
 
storange said:
I don’t know how bad Tommy is hurt . He seemed ok on sidelines. Posts range from ok to 8 broken ribs and skull fracture. Might actually be positive for Tommy to sit a game and take things in from sideline while getting healthy. Not expecting to beat FSU with Welch but hell, what have we got to lose at this point in season.
Expand...

Dino said in his press conference that Tommy was actually cleared to go back in but Dino decided to go with Welch.
 
SWC75 said:
So what have we learned from this game?

"They would have won the last 2 games and be 5-2 with CW as the starter."

"there is very little room in college football for pure passers."

"Tommy will most likely transfer."

"there’s no way you can tell me that Welch shouldn’t have been starting this season from day 1"

"the team would rather play with Welch"

In other words, nothing.
Expand...

I might have been over reacting on the day 1 starter thing. Emotions and alcohol were playing into that one
 
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