DA Declares War.

[AZOrange]

Actually you could argue with the level of protection he has received from Penn State, that Sandusky's actions were acutally quite rational.

lol...probably true...

 

[goodroc]

i am probably over thinking this. yeah i agree, but without a lot of other victims coming forward yet, it makes me think that if bernie did do this, he was very careful about not getting caught. i have no doubt he knew about the original allegations and investigations and knew he would be under scrutiny for a while, which is when the crimes would have to be committed for someone 23 yo or younger to be the victim. sandusky was just arrogant about not getting caught

23 yo or younger to be victim after 2002--- what if new victims come forward that are approx same age as davis and lang= fine maybe he cant go to jail but from the PR stand point program will be crushed

 

[AZOrange]

Yes, without knowing anything else the appearance based only on the pissing contest is that neither trust each other. Why? Even Fitz said this was the FIRST time ever he was not given evidence. Why? It is easy to say well maybe someone may have done a piss poor investigation before and are now getting their ducks in a row. Why? What can they "fix" now about an old investigation? If it is so obvious that BF is innocent, then why the heightened war? This has to be more than just a couple of punks and their g/ crying wolf. Unprecedented according to Fitz.

Couldnt it just be that the SPD and DA's office are concerned about their public perception in light of the Penn State scandal. Fitz really might not want to be known as the DA who was standing guard when these reports were first made and no one did anything about it. I am sure I have not read everything but what is in there that leads you to believe there are more victims lined up?

 

[bevosu]

At this point this is beginning to turn into an investigation of the investigations.

Child abuse is a hot topic now..nobody wants to be caught doing less than a decent job investigating child abuse allegations.

Fitzpatrick has always seemed to be user friendly to Syracuse University, but he is also a politician who runs for the DA office every few years..and easily gets re-elected.

He's a republican in a predominately Republican County. Onondaga County voters rarely elects a Democrat to the DA's office. The city of Syracuse generally votes Democratic..Mayor Miner is a Democrat. Miner appointed Fowler to head the SPD.

Fitzpatrick has always relished the limelight.

I don't know what Fitzpatrick's motivation is..as someone else mentioned he's in a very awkward position politically. Stand strong against possible child molestation and at the same time risk alienating a whole lot of locals who think that damaging the basketball program and the university would be a bad thing..or does he do his best to limit the possible damage to the university? Not a comfortable position to be in politically.

 

[rrlbees]

Couldnt it just be that the SPD and DA's office are concerned about their public perception in light of the Penn State scandal. Fitz really might not want to be known as the DA who was standing guard when these reports were first made and no one did anything about it. I am sure I have not read everything but what is in there that leads you to believe there are more victims lined up?

Better question is where did I mention victims?

 

[djcon57]

Yes, without knowing anything else the appearance based only on the pissing contest is that neither trust each other. Why? Even Fitz said this was the FIRST time ever he was not given evidence. Why? It is easy to say well maybe someone may have done a piss poor investigation before and are now getting their ducks in a row. Why? What can they "fix" now about an old investigation? If it is so obvious that BF is innocent, then why the heightened war? This has to be more than just a couple of punks and their g/ crying wolf. Unprecedented according to Fitz.

Can't it just be politics and fighting for the sake of fighting?

 

[fanfanclubclub]

Wow, Fitzpatrick is nuts imo.

Granted, I doubt the SPD is anything close to the gold standard.

But my understanding is that police do have 'exigency' prerogatives to deal with evidence and work product as they see fit. It's on the DA to get the subpoena enforced, not merely issued. A subpoena is hardly a divine commandment, its simply a prerequisite for a show cause hearing if there is any disagreement. In Illinois, any attorney can issue a subpoena as a quasi-fictional 'officer of the court:' and parties challenge bogus subpoenas all the time. I know the subpoena in the Fine case was issued by a judge or magistrate, but it was still an ex parte hearing (correct?). Until the subpoena is enforced, the DA shouldn't go to the public about the issue.

IMO, Fitzpatrick is rushing to get all the evidence, rushing to the Grand Jury, and rushing to the media. This seems especially true since the SPD brought in the US prosecutors. It isn't as if the SPD is keeping the evidence all to themselves.

And for Fitzpatrick to launch a series of wide ranging complaints against the SPD only demonstrates, justifiably, why the SPD might have wanted to keep him at arms length to begin with. For a DA to scream cover up before he even has the evidence, when he will definitely have access to the evidence soon and the US attorneys already have access, seems like really poor form.

Finally, Fitzpatrick has really undermined his own credibility (obviously) by listing all the things he "should have spoke up about before." I don't doubt that SPD has all the problems typical of city police stations: a lot of bad stuff. But for Fitzpatrick to admit that he looked the other way numerous times when murder cases were mishandled, seems like 90% of an unintentional resignation.

 

[AZOrange]

Better question is where did I mention victims?

well you keep saying things like "If this was nothing more than 2 drugged up lying brothers and a crack whore making up lies, as some here have described the situation, we wouldn't be seeing this all out war between the SPD and DA. You don't have to know a single fact or think Bernie is guilty or innocent to be able to read into the actions of these 2 law enforcement groups."

There is nothing that can be prosecuted with respect to these 2 cases. So your post implying that there is something more that is causing these 2 law enforcement groups to fight makes me think you believe there are more victims. Am I misreading you here?

 

[javadoc]

If it is so obvious that BF is innocent, then why the heightened war? This has to be more than just a couple of punks and their g/ crying wolf. Unprecedented according to Fitz.

It seems pretty simple to me. If the accusers are to be believed with regard to how they contacted SPD, then the investigator who had the 5-minute phone call didn't know that this was a high-profile case. If he was derelict in dismissing the case so quickly, without following up to determine if there might be other recent victims, then that reveals how the department might be operating in general run-of-the-mill cases.

So the DA and his SVU are mad at the SPD for treating things that way. The SPD is firing back with leaks, trying to make the DA look bad. Game on.

Doesn't mean diddly with regard to the truthfulness of the accusations against Fine. It's all about how SPD handles sexual abuse allegations day-to-day.

 

[mscanlo]

23 yo or younger to be victim after 2002--- what if new victims come forward that are approx same age as davis and lang= fine maybe he cant go to jail but from the PR stand point program will be crushed

yeah, i agree. i was just thinking from a jail/legal trial standpoint

 

[Noexcuse]

where did you hear SU gave a copy of the report to the DA? Heard the opposite at least with respect to 2005.

I don't know. I think here somewhere along the way. Maybe it was dispelled. I thought someone said earlier in the week that the University's report might be subject to the FOIA once the DA's office enters it as part of their investigation. Didn't SU say they were cooperating with the DA?

 

[rrlbees]

well you keep saying things like "If this was nothing more than 2 drugged up lying brothers and a crack whore making up lies, as some here have described the situation, we wouldn't be seeing this all out war between the SPD and DA. You don't have to know a single fact or think Bernie is guilty or innocent to be able to read into the actions of these 2 law enforcement groups."

There is nothing that can be prosecuted with respect to these 2 cases. So your post implying that there is something more that is causing these 2 law enforcement groups to fight makes me think you believe there are more victims. Am I misreading you here?

any post that i use the word "more" i'm not talking about number of victims. i mean more info/evidence whatever.

 

[AZOrange]

any post that i use the word "more" i'm not talking about number of victims. i mean more info/evidence whatever.

gotcha...so you just think it is gonna get worse from a public perception perspective and not necessarily a guilt/innocence perspective? i fear that too.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

gotcha...so you just think it is gonna get worse from a public perception perspective and not necessarily a guilt/innocence perspective? i fear that too.

My concern is that in the course of this digging something is discovered about the basketball program ($$$ or something) and then the NCAA gets involved, and then...

Edit: After posting this I realize I should clarify. My gut is that Bernie is innocent. MY primary concern is that he is not, however, given that I believe he is innocent, my concern is that in the course... etc.

 

[AZOrange]

My concern is that in the course of this digging something is discovered about the basketball program ($$$ or something) and then the NCAA gets involved, and then...

I am banking on the fact that the big 2005 investigation looked into that. those guys were thorough. Cantor would have shut it down then.

 

[rrlbees]

It seems pretty simple to me. If the accusers are to be believed with regard to how they contacted SPD, then the investigator who had the 5-minute phone call didn't know that this was a high-profile case. If he was derelict in dismissing the case so quickly, without following up to determine if there might be other recent victims, then that reveals how the department might be operating in general run-of-the-mill cases.

if it is that simple then there is nothing that spd can do to undo that. so why the delay?

 

[AZOrange]

if it is that simple then there is nothing that spd can do to undo that. so why the delay?

stall tactic. used when you dont have the backup you should have..."wait i need to check the file" and "oh btw go yourself".

 

[RF2044]

Yes, without knowing anything else the appearance based only on the pissing contest is that neither trust each other. Why? Even Fitz said this was the FIRST time ever he was not given evidence. Why? It is easy to say well maybe someone may have done a piss poor investigation before and are now getting their ducks in a row. Why? What can they "fix" now about an old investigation? If it is so obvious that BF is innocent, then why the heightened war? This has to be more than just a couple of punks and their g/ crying wolf. Unprecedented according to Fitz.

I think there's a simple explanation. Have you ever seen anyone lose it in the workplace, and behave inappropriately even when the incident causing the individual to blow up seems fairly minor? Sometimes people let their dissatisfaction with co-workers build up, getting bigger and bigger over time, and when they finally blow their stack it doesn't matter how minor the trigger incident is--the reaction is based upon the cumulative negative "baggage" in its entirety--not on the incident itself.

That's exactly what seems to be happening between Fitzpatrick and Fowler. Frankly, this seems really amateurish on Fitzpatrick's part. I doubt that it has much to do with the case at hand [at least not the logistics of the case]. It's just the trigger event for something that has been building over time between these two agencies, and the high publicity aspect of it is what made Fitz finally pop his cork.

 

[javadoc]

if it is that simple then there is nothing that spd can do to undo that. so why the delay?

Procrastinating, getting things in order to CYA. Think how you would act if you were caught, or about to be caught, in something bad that you could nevertheless not do anything about. Add in personal animus between the SPD and DA and you have the makings of a Dostoevsky novel.

 

[rrlbees]

stall tactic. used when you dont have the backup you should have..."wait i need to check the file" and "oh btw go yourself".

 

[AZOrange]

Fowler looks like a dead duck right now. His head is probably on the block right now. Fitz is basically able to fire away at will as he is elected.

 

[goodroc]

makes sense they are stalling they freaking out that they fckd up in 2002 -- bad records and no follow up___ national media and the world watching
still dont see how that = fine is guilty

 

[AZOrange]

makes sense they are stalling they freaking out that they fckd up in 2002 -- bad records and no follow up___ national media and the world watching
still dont see how that = fine is guilty

This hasnt been about Fine's guilt or innocence in the last 5 days.

 

[rrlbees]

Fowler looks like a dead duck right now. His head is probably on the block right now. Fitz is basically able to fire away at will as he is elected.

I'm waiting for a Miner statement at any time. There is no way she can allow HER Police Chief and police department to be attacked like that and say nothing. Even if she just says she isn't going to comment on over the top accusations (or something along those lines).

 

[Chip]

I am banking on the fact that the big 2005 investigation looked into that. those guys were thorough. Cantor would have shut it down then.

Pretty much where I'm at. Just hoping SU was as thorough as they needed to be. If there was an SPD or DA cover up, they did it on their own.

It's hard for people to separate this from Penn State, but that's what I'm doing. If Bernie did this, then justice should prevail against him, I just hope he really did hide that secret life from JB, SU, etc.

Not at all taking the somewhat popular fatalistic view that this is the end of the program.