Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[OrangePA]

I went to one waffle house in my life while traveling through Arkansas. I believe once was enough for me.

My one experience with Chick Fil-A was that I didn't get it. It was tasty, but not anything that I'd love to go back to. As far as fast food addictions, give me Popeye's and Five Guys any day of the week.

I heard the founder of Five Guys interviewed on the radio - a former financial advisor, who along with his sons, opened a single hamburger joint.

I have to get there and try the burgers and fries.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I vote for "bad"

The City needs a replacement of the via duct that will spur commercial and residential development.

This needs to be done.

The Trump budget decision - along with his increase in my taxes in 2018 - is not a good thing for CNY.

The only thing that really needs to be replaced is the overhead part of the highway. You can have the highway end at roughly Oakwood Cemetary northbound and turn into a street grid. The grid would only have to go as far as about St. Joe's Hospital / Butternut Street, and then you could keep the existing northbound highway.

Southbound, you can keep the current 81 South all the way to the downtown exits on Salina and Clinton Streets, and then resume Southbound traffic on the opposite side of the Dome, with on ramps to match the off ramps that will be staggered off of State Street.

That stretch would only be about 1.7 miles.

 

[xc84]

The only thing that really needs to be replaced is the overhead part of the highway. You can have the highway end at roughly Oakwood Cemetary northbound and turn into a street grid. The grid would only have to go as far as about St. Joe's Hospital / Butternut Street, and then you could keep the existing northbound highway.

Southbound, you can keep the current 81 South all the way to the downtown exits on Salina and Clinton Streets, and then resume Southbound traffic on the opposite side of the Dome, with on ramps to match the off ramps that will be staggered off of State Street.

That stretch would only be about 1.7 miles.

That's the planned grid option. The non-highway part is only 1.4 miles long. Otherwise, it's all highway to and from downtown.

 

[OttoMets]

Thanks for the correction, you are right. They lied about profits to the tune of $25.6 million dollars.

But I went to the store once a week (my employees loved their doughnuts), drove by it a lot and it wasn't closed down just because of corporate. Sales deteriorated dramatically. Maybe OttoMets has the reason; though Dunkin Donuts never seemed to be hurt by this (they have been adding stores around CNY for a long time with no end in sight).

Anyway, good to see this franchise arrive in CNY. I hope they do well.

I do think diversification of menus helped places like Dunkin' (why people buy their lunch food I don't know...my one late-night purchase of a tuna sandwich there was an epic disaster). More than that, though, they make their profit on the backs of 5-day-a-week customers who are hooked on coffee and then add another high-margin item to their purchase here and there. In addition to Atkins, I assume KK was hurt up here by its inability to reach that customer. Once a week is plenty for their product, it's tough to expect a customer to come in more often than that.

 

[dooey139]

Could be misremembering the timeline, but I think Krispy Kreme was one of the chains that got clobbered by the popularity of Atkins. Carbs were falling out of favor right when some carb-heavy chains were undergoing national or regional expansions and they took a big hit. Montana Mills, an Upstate bread store, was one of the casualties.

Off topic but Montana Mills had the best cinnamon bread

 

[nzm136]

Mellow Mushroom. Man.

Good joke

 

[Qbobby]

I heard the founder of Five Guys interviewed on the radio - a former financial advisor, who along with his sons, opened a single hamburger joint.

I have to get there and try the burgers and fries.

You've never been? Without a doubt amazing burgers and fries. Don't make the mistake of ordering more than a small fries though. They fill the small cup, and the proceed to scoop up a full scoop more and dump them in your bag. A small is like a large for the fries. And the burgers are super juicy, fresh, and amazing. Do yourself the favor, stop by and enjoy.

 

[NJCuse97]

You've never been? Without a doubt amazing burgers and fries. Don't make the mistake of ordering more than a small fries though. They fill the small cup, and the proceed to scoop up a full scoop more and dump them in your bag. A small is like a large for the fries. And the burgers are super juicy, fresh, and amazing. Do yourself the favor, stop by and enjoy.

Even if they were created in the shadow of Georgetown.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

If it's anything other than the street level boulevard/grid, then it's a failure before it ever gets started.

So then, by extension 690, which also "divides the city" should be knocked down and we should all use Erie Blvd.

 

[xc84]

So then, by extension 690, which also "divides the city" should be knocked down and we should all use Erie Blvd.

No. 690 was built on the railroad line, not where people lived. It didn't divide the city. The railroad line was put there and the city built around it. 690 then replaced it.

 

[Qbobby]

Even if they were created in the shadow of Georgetown.

Just think of the fries being salted by the tears of Hoya fans.

 

[Bayside44]

Even if they were created in the shadow of Georgetown.

More in the shadow of George Mason.

 

[xc84]

You've never been? Without a doubt amazing burgers and fries. Don't make the mistake of ordering more than a small fries though. They fill the small cup, and the proceed to scoop up a full scoop more and dump them in your bag. A small is like a large for the fries. And the burgers are super juicy, fresh, and amazing. Do yourself the favor, stop by and enjoy.

They are tasty but if you have high blood pressure that is affected by salt, don't eat at Five Guys.

 

[shandeezy7]

No. 690 was built on the railroad line, not where people lived. It didn't divide the city. The railroad line was put there and the city built around it. 690 then replaced it.

Not totally true.

In the 1920s, a former New York governor warned about creating "a savage septic wound" to the face of Syracuse

 

[OrangePA]

So then, by extension 690, which also "divides the city" should be knocked down and we should all use Erie Blvd.

Except much of 690 does not split downtown - much of it runs parallel to Erie Boulevard.

If we could, would I want to eliminate or submerge the portion of 690 that runs through downtown?

Sure!

 

[xc84]

Not totally true.

In the 1920s, a former New York governor warned about creating "a savage septic wound" to the face of Syracuse

Doesn't this just address the elevation of existing tracks (which were already barriers)? I am not saying 690 is great but even the article you cited says:

"The two railroad elevations, to the west and north, became more like edges to downtown rather than disfiguring "barriers." White could not foresee, however, the economic giant that University Hill has become, nor envisioned an elevated highway between it and downtown, one that is actually wider in scale than even that of the railroads."

I will not argue that 690 is to some extent, a "barrier" but what does it divide? The railroad had been there... and so it wasn't like houses were demolished to make way for 690. The Erie canal had also been there as a "barrier" slightly to the south well before 690 or even the railroad.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Personally, I think 690 is a travesty as well.

 

[shandeezy7]

Doesn't this just address the elevation of existing tracks (which were already barriers)? I am not saying 690 is great but even the article you cited says:

"The two railroad elevations, to the west and north, became more like edges to downtown rather than disfiguring "barriers." White could not foresee, however, the economic giant that University Hill has become, nor envisioned an elevated highway between it and downtown, one that is actually wider in scale than even that of the railroads."

I will not argue that 690 is to some extent, a "barrier" but what does it divide? The railroad had been there... and so it wasn't like houses were demolished to make way for 690. The Erie canal had also been there as a "barrier" slightly to the south well before 690 or even the railroad.

I'm sure the footprint was expanded when the train tracks were elevated and I'm sure it was expanded again when it was made into a highway.

 

[OttoMets]

I'm sure the footprint was expanded when the train tracks were elevated and I'm sure it was expanded again when it was made into a highway.

It was -- nice photo, by the way, probably Catherine Street shot from the roof of what's now the U-Haul building? -- but it didn't receive the same arterial/feeder treatment that 81 in the Almond corridor did. And that's what really wrecks the atmosphere and the real estate value. That, and the subsequent disinvestment in adjacent properties.

Along 690, there wasn't much development south of the viaduct and there wasn't much connectivity in the street grid between north and south because of the topography and historical uses (canal and railroad). So while 690 created a wider scar, it didn't diminish the neighborhood because there wasn't much neighborhood to speak of (though there's a reason the blocks of Burnet adjacent to 690 remain the largest ungentrified portion of Hawley-Green). And there's still a more or less urban connection at Catherine, North Crouse, and Beech Streets because there's no redundant surface feeder system for the expressway.

 

[shandeezy7]

It was -- nice photo, by the way, probably Catherine Street shot from the roof of what's now the U-Haul building? -- but it didn't receive the same arterial/feeder treatment that 81 in the Almond corridor did. And that's what really wrecks the atmosphere and the real estate value. That, and the subsequent disinvestment in adjacent properties.

Along 690, there wasn't much development south of the viaduct and there wasn't much connectivity in the street grid between north and south because of the topography and historical uses (canal and railroad). So while 690 created a wider scar, it didn't diminish the neighborhood because there wasn't much neighborhood to speak of (though there's a reason the blocks of Burnet adjacent to 690 remain the largest ungentrified portion of Hawley-Green). And there's still a more or less urban connection at Catherine, North Crouse, and Beech Streets because there's no redundant surface feeder system for the expressway.

Oh yeah, I'm not saying that building 690 was the worst thing. Clearly building 81 directly through the city was far and away the biggest travesty. An abhorrent lack of forward thinking and a void in leadership from decision makers.

 

[xc84]

I'm sure the footprint was expanded when the train tracks were elevated and I'm sure it was expanded again when it was made into a highway.

I agree...but if you isolate a 690 decision, it was a railroad first...so not a crazy stretch to put a highway there over it in the age of the automobile. I am all for improvements to 690 when the time and money comes. Maybe they could tie it into a downtown grid as it approaches downtown like they will do with 81.

 

[OrangePA]

Doesn't this just address the elevation of existing tracks (which were already barriers)? I am not saying 690 is great but even the article you cited says:

"The two railroad elevations, to the west and north, became more like edges to downtown rather than disfiguring "barriers." White could not foresee, however, the economic giant that University Hill has become, nor envisioned an elevated highway between it and downtown, one that is actually wider in scale than even that of the railroads."

I will not argue that 690 is to some extent, a "barrier" but what does it divide? The railroad had been there... and so it wasn't like houses were demolished to make way for 690. The Erie canal had also been there as a "barrier" slightly to the south well before 690 or even the railroad.

Yes.

 

[Millhouse]

I vote for "bad"

The City needs a replacement of the via duct that will spur commercial and residential development.

This needs to be done.

The Trump budget decision - along with his increase in my taxes in 2018 - is not a good thing for CNY.

You paying higher taxes is bad for CNY?

 

[OrangePA]

You paying higher taxes is bad for CNY?

Oh my Socrates, I should have known that your radar-like intelligence would rear its massive brain in this thread.

Pardon my imprecise sentence structure.

The sentence was meant to convey two factual events that are "bad."

One, the Trump budget, which will hurt CNY's chance of remaking Route 81.

And, two, Mr. Trump's tax plan, that reduces taxes for multi-billionaires and companies such as Apple, but increases my own relatively middle class taxes.

Let me say it in way that will allow you to understand my pedestrian ways of communication:

 

[Millhouse]

Oh my Socrates, I should have known that your radar-like intelligence would rear its massive brain in this thread.

Pardon my imprecise sentence structure.

The sentence was meant to convey two factual events that are "bad."

One, the Trump budget, which will hurt CNY's chance of remaking Route 81.

And, two, Mr. Trump's tax plan, that reduces taxes for multi-billionaires and companies such as Apple, but increases my own relatively middle class taxes.

Let me say it in way that you allow you to understand my pedestrian ways of communication: View attachment 123297

relaaaaaaaax

if it makes you feel better, all our taxes are going up eventually because they keep spending more. some of us get to kick the can a little bi but we'll all pay up