Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[Scooch]

Tanglewood? Bill Graham did a series of concerts there in the early 70's. Great venue, but traffic in and out and parking was horrendous. I remember walking around for about a hour looking for our car.

Nope that’s in western Mass. The former Great Woods is in Mansfield, half hour south of Boston.

 

[KellySyracuse]

SPAC has way better seating, vendors and toilets.
The AMP is a sewer for those on the lawn who have to use port-a-potties that haven't been emptied since five shows ago. Also far, far easier to get in and out of for car traffic.

c'mon, this is not correct. The toilet house is just fine and there are a multitude of blue boys located around the grounds at the Amp. I've been to all of the amphitheaters around upstate, CMAC and the Amp are by far the best of the lot. And if you think the Amp is difficult to get in/out of then you've never been to CMAC. At least you can take a shuttle to the Amp or pony up for the VIP parking.

I think you may have a wild hair up your keester about something else to do with Onondaga County. Are you that guy on the legislature that represents Manlius who hates on everything Joanie Mahoney?

 

[CarolinaCuse]

I think these outdoor concert venues have lousy traffic regarldless, they sure stink in suburban DC.

Wegmans is building a smaller shop in Alexandria. Harris Teeter has an aweome place in downtown Alexandria with a Trader Joe's around the corner.

They're building an "urban" Wegmans in Reston near the new Silver Line expansion. Supposedly it will be similar to the Wegmans in Chestnut Hill (MA)... which is fine. Nothing particularly special. Growing up with Wegmans in Syracuse, I was spoiled. But what made me a huge convert was the seafood bar at the Wegmans in Leesburg (VA). Back in the day... oysters for $1, the best blackened mahi mahi sandwich, and craft beers on draft for wicked cheap.

 

[KellySyracuse]

My wife went to HS with the owner. This place looks like an awesome place to hit on Football Weekends.

Talisman Taproom

Talisman Tap Room (the former J.Ryan's Pub) now open in Syracuse

I was a frequent patron of JRyans, especially before SU games. The staff and the draft lineup could not be beat, it reminded me much of the old Clarks. That said I don't have the inside story of why the owner of the building decided to shut down the place and then lie about his intentions when the story made it to Syracuse.com. There were a lot of great people employed there that got sent to the unemployment line with only a weeks notice, some of which had worked there for 8+ years.

So unless I hear of a few good reasons to patronize this new place knowing that the same guy owns the building, I won't be going back there. The Press Room by the Dinosaur will be the new pregame drinking spot

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[MaxwellCuse]

That's a very typical SPAC experience.

Never could stand SPAC. Even when I still had all my hearing and I worked for the agency that administers it. Tanglewood is my idea of an outdoor music venue. I can still hear classical music, even some jazz, despite the amplification. Best of all, I can bring in my own single malt or beer or wine, along with my own food, to enjoy on the lawn before the concert. If I lived near Syracuse I'd love to give the Lakeview a shot. But as for SPAC, that stuff got tired 20 years ago.

 

[IthacaMatt]

c'mon, this is not correct. The toilet house is just fine and there are a multitude of blue boys located around the grounds at the Amp. I've been to all of the amphitheaters around upstate, CMAC and the Amp are by far the best of the lot. And if you think the Amp is difficult to get in/out of then you've never been to CMAC. At least you can take a shuttle to the Amp or pony up for the VIP parking.

I think you may have a wild hair up your keester about something else to do with Onondaga County. Are you that guy on the legislature that represents Manlius who hates on everything Joanie Mahoney?

I've been to CMAC, Darien Lake, the Amp and SPAC.

I admit that I haven't been to the Amp since last summer's Phish show, but that was a dreadful experience. The Dave Matthews crowd at this summer's show was also an awful mess, although they got the parking lot done a couple weeks before the Fair, but it's been a problem most of the summer.

I went to SPAC for Evanescence with the orchestra this summer - about my third time there. I had seats under the roof each time. SPAC's seated area seems larger than the Amp to me, maybe because it's at more of an angle, and maybe that makes it seem bigger. The Amp is a more gentle slope. I agree that SPAC has insufficient room on the lawn. No question.

But there are 2 ways to drive into the park where SPAC is located, from the Route 9 side or from the Route 50 side. If you use the back way in and out of the park, the traffic is much easier. It's actually harder walking out across those 2 small foot bridges within the park that make leaving the place so tedious; at least that's been my experience.

Darien Lake was easy-peasy. CMAC depends on the show, I guess.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Never could stand SPAC. Even when I still had all my hearing and I worked for the agency that administers it. Tanglewood is my idea of an outdoor music venue. I can still hear classical music, even some jazz, despite the amplification. Best of all, I can bring in my own single malt or beer or wine, along with my own food, to enjoy on the lawn before the concert. If I lived near Syracuse I'd love to give the Lakeview a shot. But as for SPAC, that stuff got tired 20 years ago.

My experiences on the lawn at the Amp have been not that good. Really drunken obnoxious crowds (maybe I'm just getting older), and truly filthy port-a-potties, already full before the show got started, from having been used from who knows how many shows already. One of them tipped over and flowed onto the lawn, too. The stench was freaking disgusting.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I've been to CMAC, Darien Lake, the Amp and SPAC.

I admit that I haven't been to the Amp since last summer's Phish show, but that was a dreadful experience. The Dave Matthews crowd at this summer's show was also an awful mess, although they got the parking lot done a couple weeks before the Fair, but it's been a problem most of the summer.

I went to SPAC for Evanescence with the orchestra this summer - about my third time there. I had seats under the roof each time. SPAC's seated area seems larger than the Amp to me, maybe because it's at more of an angle, and maybe that makes it seem bigger. The Amp is a more gentle slope. I agree that SPAC has insufficient room on the lawn. No question.

But there are 2 ways to drive into the park where SPAC is located, from the Route 9 side or from the Route 50 side. If you use the back way in and out of the park, the traffic is much easier. It's actually harder walking out across those 2 small foot bridges within the park that make leaving the place so tedious; at least that's been my experience.

Darien Lake was easy-peasy. CMAC depends on the show, I guess.

The Amp has parking issues and gate entry issues they need to figure out, totally agree with that. But with all of these venues driving in and out of them is awful. If I recall with Darien Lake as well as SPAC and CMAC the way in and out is a state highway which is not at all close to an interstate or the Thruway.

They all have their pros and cons. The Amp improves Syracuse, I can't believe it took decades to finally get one built here. I do agree they need to figure out the egress after the show situation but until they do I'll take the 10 minute shuttle from downtown right after having drinks/dinner in Armory or Hanover.

Sometimes you have to look for the sunshine through the rain.

 

[upperdeck]

reality is how many venues of any kind have easy exit plans? to go PSU/WV/ go to a bills game/ a mets game. you walk for 1-2 miles to your car and then wait to exit in long lines.

what screws up the Amp is the same long lines getting in. And its not like getting there an hr early helps all that much..

 

[Newhouser]

The Amp should be better than SPAC - it's a ton newer and was built with concerts in mind. As someone posted earlier SPAC was not designed to be a concert venue. That is how things evolved and they make do. I have been to both more than a few times, and both have their strengths and weaknesses. My only gripe with the AMP is as a new venue they should have had fewer issues as there were other venues to study.

 

[shandeezy7]

25 years later, debate resumes: Should CNY build a downtown baseball stadium?

 

[OttoMets]

I was a frequent patron of JRyans, especially before SU games. The staff and the draft lineup could not be beat, it reminded me much of the old Clarks. That said I don't have the inside story of why the owner of the building decided to shut down the place and then lie about his intentions when the story made it to Syracuse.com. There were a lot of great people employed there that got sent to the unemployment line with only a weeks notice, some of which had worked there for 8+ years.

So unless I hear of a few good reasons to patronize this new place knowing that the same guy owns the building, I won't be going back there. The Press Room by the Dinosaur will be the new pregame drinking spot

I get you. J. Ryan's was awesome, that was unfair to the staff, and the new owner comes across as petty at best.

But I'm 0-for-1 at the Press Room (they were out of the first three beers our group asked for, the atmosphere was lame, and service was friendly but clumsy) and Talisman might fill a void down there.

As far as good reasons to patronize the new place, that's kind of flimsy, but it's the best I've got. So I'll probably give it a try. Wonder if any of the old staff will give the guy a second chance.

 

[OttoMets]

25 years later, debate resumes: Should CNY build a downtown baseball stadium?

Now can anyone read that and say that they're comfortable with Ryan McMahon running the proverbial ice cream truck, much less a legislature that governs 450,000 people?

 

[Trueblue25]

25 years later, debate resumes: Should CNY build a downtown baseball stadium?

Saying there’s no proof to point towards further state funding of a downtown, or in proximity, stadium is just lazy.

 

[OttoMets]

Saying there’s no proof to point towards further state funding of a downtown, or in proximity, stadium is just lazy.

Exactly, it's 180 degrees opposite how government is supposed to work (and it's also ignoring all the silly free money from New York State, but that's a different story).

How about first laying out a policy goal and then investigating its feasibility? Instead that hick just throws up his hands and makes some dumb excuses.

 

[KellySyracuse]

Now can anyone read that and say that they're comfortable with Ryan McMahon running the proverbial ice cream truck, much less a legislature that governs 450,000 people?

Tom Buckel has the right idea, at least bring building a new ball park into the conversation. McMahon is much like some of the other legislators that hate on any idea that would bring improvements to the city, forgetting that the suburbs only exist because of downtown Syracuse.

I don't see this idea going too far but at least have the conversation. Money would be better spent revitalizing that stretch of N. Salina, Wolf St. and Hiawatha Blvd. but they'd have to relocate the adult clubs in order to really make a difference.

 

[cuse10]

Saying there’s no proof to point towards further state funding of a downtown, or in proximity, stadium is just lazy.

I agree. They built a $63M expo center for what? What does it add to the area? There are legitimate arguments against building a new stadium from scratch, but that wasn't one of them. Like most local officials, they kicked the can until it became apparent that it needed to be addressed similar to the War Memorial; another dump in itself.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Now can anyone read that and say that they're comfortable with Ryan McMahon running the proverbial ice cream truck, much less a legislature that governs 450,000 people?

McMahon is someone who is ambitious and will keep getting promoted until he exceeds his limited capabilities. But minor league baseball is such a meh event, that I don't think the extra cost for a new stadium can be justified. It was a mistake to put the park on the North Side then, but it's there. I'm not even sure that $25m renovation can increase attendance that much.

Overall, I think this lends evidence to the lack of a cohesive master plan between the city and metro area. The I-81 replacement is just such a massive project that the city and county should be on the same page so that they can take advantage of a once in a lifetime opportunity to design an urban transportation, living, and entertainment system that works together.

 

[pattycuse]

25 years later, debate resumes: Should CNY build a downtown baseball stadium?

To me, this is throwing good money after bad...that stadium was a mistake 25 years ago and we are only compounding it...especially if we do view the Mets as a flight risk- what would be a better draw for another franchise, a non-producing stadium in the middle of nowhere or an exciting new facility near a growth sector of the city?

Small town, parochial thinking...

 

[OttoMets]

McMahon is someone who is ambitious and will keep getting promoted until he exceeds his limited capabilities. But minor league baseball is such a meh event, that I don't think the extra cost for a new stadium can be justified. It was a mistake to put the park on the North Side then, but it's there. I'm not even sure that $25m renovation can increase attendance that much.

Overall, I think this lends evidence to the lack of a cohesive master plan between the city and metro area. The I-81 replacement is just such a massive project that the city and county should be on the same page so that they can take advantage of a once in a lifetime opportunity to design an urban transportation, living, and entertainment system that works together.

As you probably know, McMahon's at the top of the list of people who have totally kneecapped SOCPA (going on two years without a commissioner now because there's no political support and nobody wants to take a job that there's no political will to support), and he's also the biggest obstacle in getting Mahoney's half-assed land use plan voted into law (for maybe eight years and counting).

So, yeah, planning is a huge problem locally. But these provincial politicians have no problem weighing in on major transportation and land use policy decisions like I-81 as if their opinion matters.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I agree. They built a $63M expo center for what? What does it add to the area? There are legitimate arguments against building a new stadium from scratch, but that wasn't one of them. Like most local officials, they kicked the can until it became apparent that it needed to be addressed similar to the War Memorial; another dump in itself.

There was a contingent of people that opposed demolishing the War Memorial and building new backed by some veterans that claimed it as a historical site. Unfortunately the county folded like a cheap suit instead of planning for the future, much like they're currently doing with the I81 rebuild

 

[Trueblue25]

Exactly, it's 180 degrees opposite how government is supposed to work (and it's also ignoring all the silly free money from New York State, but that's a different story).

How about first laying out a policy goal and then investigating its feasibility? Instead that hick just throws up his hands and makes some dumb excuses.

Im thinking this article had to be a hit piece. I mean it plain and clear states that the government offered 200 mil for a non professional private university stadium funding in 2013.

 

[Trueblue25]

Why compound a further 25 mil to a mistake that may be abandoned? We are risking too much for a mets team that questionable in their commitment

 

[IthacaMatt]

I agree. They built a $63M expo center for what? What does it add to the area? There are legitimate arguments against building a new stadium from scratch, but that wasn't one of them. Like most local officials, they kicked the can until it became apparent that it needed to be addressed similar to the War Memorial; another dump in itself.

I was in there a couple days ago at the Fair. It's a big metal shed with seating for about 1000 people and a hockey rink that has too much space around it, if you were actually thinking of this as a replacement for the War Memorial for the Crunch. SRC Arena, up at OCC, has more seating. It's clean, but it's just a cement slab floor, bathrooms and a nice entrance. That's what you get for $64 MILLION ???? Geeez, I am in the wrong business! I should be doing government work. FFS!