Development in and Around Syracuse Discussion

[bevosu]

Malls we're cool in the 1980's.

It's no surprise it's a dying footprint.

Congel's business model is now a distressed property business model...

Pull out and wash as much equity as you can, then flip over the table and walk away and let the mortgage holders and local community deal with the husk.

Pyramid Management Group , LLC

A limited liability company (LLC) is a corporate structure in the United States whereby the owners are not personally liable for the company's debts or liabilities. Limited liability companies are hybrid entities that combine the characteristics of a corporation with those of a partnership or sole proprietorship

 

[KellySyracuse]

The Brine Well Eatery opening on 4/20, specializing in garbage plates. Located on Jefferson St. between S. Salina and S. Warren

The Brine Well Eatery

 

[IthacaMatt]

Pyramid Management Group , LLC

A limited liability company (LLC) is a corporate structure in the United States whereby the owners are not personally liable for the company's debts or liabilities. Limited liability companies are hybrid entities that combine the characteristics of a corporation with those of a partnership or sole proprietorship

I used to work there. The management structure is very complex, and is different for each of their 20 or so malls. There are empty shell entities and insurance-funded entities in the background, but the money is sucked out of the malls and distributed to the members without very much recourse to creditors or litigants. The architect of all of this was a really brilliant insurance guy named George Young. Very smart man, very genial in person, unlike some of the Congel team.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Pyramid Management Group , LLC

A limited liability company (LLC) is a corporate structure in the United States whereby the owners are not personally liable for the company's debts or liabilities. Limited liability companies are hybrid entities that combine the characteristics of a corporation with those of a partnership or sole proprietorship

Good definition, however this doesn’t mean squat. It all depends if the mortgage company made the loan recourse or not. They might have wanted Bobs personal guaranty or a trust guaranty at closing. I would seriously doubt that it was given but you never know.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Good definition, however this doesn’t mean squat. It all depends if the mortgage company made the loan recourse or not. They might have wanted Bobs personal guaranty or a trust guaranty at closing. I would seriously doubt that it was given but you never know.

Bob's been out of the mall ownership for several years. It's his son now who is the principal.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Bob's been out of the mall ownership for several years. It's his son now who is the principal.

Heard some rumors that Bob has dementia.

Crazy thing about the whole destiny saga - all the handwringing that they didn't deliver on phases 2 and 3. It would take them 500 years to pay off the mortgage if they built anything more than what they currently have.

 

[oldpinepoint]

Bob's been out of the mall ownership for several years. It's his son now who is the principal.

Figured at much.

 

[Cusefan0307]

C'mon jake you know what i meant. I don't go up to the hill unless it's for an SU game. I don't count my trips to the ER as a visit.

In other news, might as well shut the city down and pack everyone up. If destiny can't succeed on a tax-free diet and Hotel Syracuse can't succeed with all of the local pols and business leaders rallying behind it, there's not much hope for the future... outside of football season.

Just because Destiny isn’t doing well doesn’t mean other businesses aren’t. Malls are dying everywhere. Not sure why this is a surprise to you.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Just because Destiny isn’t doing well doesn’t mean other businesses aren’t. Malls are dying everywhere. Not sure why this is a surprise to you.

Where did I say I was surprised?

What I don't understand is why they don't lower the rents there since so many spaces still sit empty. Low rent > no rent.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Where did I say I was surprised?

What I don't understand is why they don't lower the rents there since so many spaces still sit empty. Low rent > no rent.

"Why are they so stubborn?"
"We're not stubborn!"

 

[Orijinal]

Where did I say I was surprised?

What I don't understand is why they don't lower the rents there since so many spaces still sit empty. Low rent > no rent.

The rent's too high!

 

[shandeezy7]

Syracuse "Spark" art space closing its doors, looking for a new home

Headed toward the bulldozer in favor of another over-sized student housing project, OttoMets?

 

[OttoMets]

Syracuse "Spark" art space closing its doors, looking for a new home

Headed toward the bulldozer in favor of another over-sized student housing project, OttoMets?

It's a shame. Those guys worked hard but just couldn't get financing. Same guy's owned the building for decades (since it was surrounded by housing projects and totally a no-go zone), think he's looking to cash out as other neighbors have done. It backs up to some vacant land and a very nice hidden 19th-century single-family house (owned by Woodbine, neighborhood hotel and cheapo student apartment developer, I think); there's a fixed-income senior housing complex on that side of the block, and a vacant city fire station and the vacant professional office building that most recently was home to a VA clinic on the near side of the block. And Woodbine recently subdivided one of their parking lots. So there's definitely some assemblage potential.

Hope the building stays, it's not special but in a lot of ways better than the Disney stuff developers are building in the neighborhood.

 

[shandeezy7]

It's a shame. Those guys worked hard but just couldn't get financing. Same guy's owned the building for decades (since it was surrounded by housing projects and totally a no-go zone), think he's looking to cash out as other neighbors have done. It backs up to some vacant land and a very nice hidden 19th-century single-family house (owned by Woodbine, neighborhood hotel and cheapo student apartment developer, I think); there's a fixed-income senior housing complex on that side of the block, and a vacant city fire station and the vacant professional office building that most recently was home to a VA clinic on the near side of the block. And Woodbine recently subdivided one of their parking lots. So there's definitely some assemblage potential.

Hope the building stays, it's not special but in a lot of ways better than the Disney stuff developers are building in the neighborhood.

Woodbine is the company owned by Norm Swanson (Genesee Grande, Hotel Skyler, Tailwater Lodge & Parkview Hotel), right? I believe he was also behind the conversion of the Genesee Armory into Copper Beech Commons. Looks like the owner of that house that you mentioned is Genesee Armory LLC.

I agree that the building isn't significant, per se, but it appears to be in good shape and like you said, much better looking than the cheap looking apartment buildings developers keep putting up in that area.

 

[jr4750]

University officially came out in favor of community grid option today.

 

[OttoMets]

University officially came out in favor of community grid option today.

You're pretty good at keeping secrets, eh?

 

[KellySyracuse]

University officially came out in favor of community grid option today.

thank goodness, it's about damn time

Syracuse University endorses grid plan for I-81

 

[shandeezy7]

ESF hops on board as well:

SUNY ESF sold on I-81 grid option after briefing by NY officials

The article reads like the State is currently pitching the benefits of the grid option. Hopefully a good sign of things to come.

 

[shandeezy7]

Upstate Medical joins growing chorus in support of I-81 grid

Now getting the hospitals on board as well should officially end this discussion.

 

[KellySyracuse]

ESF hops on board as well:

SUNY ESF sold on I-81 grid option after briefing by NY officials

The article reads like the State is currently pitching the benefits of the grid option. Hopefully a good sign of things to come.

This point in the article debunks Ed Michelanko's argument that a grid would be detrimental to the environment. It was a weak argument to begin with. I'd would love to know how much cash traded hands between some of these representatives and Congel.

"To be sustainable, the city must have a population that sees the importance of community, ecology and place. If the city has no population, no amount of clean air or urban forest will matter. As a grid moves through-traffic away from the city core, suburban communities can share the burden of accommodating such traffic and ESF scientists can work with community leaders on exemplary forest and wetland innovations that can mitigate the impacts on the areas around I-481.”

 

[Fly Rodder]

Ed Michelanko's argument that a grid would be detrimental to the environment.

He's kind of right, but yeah, it's a dumb argument. Idling cars in stop & go traffic do burn more fuel, but a community grid lends itself to a less car-dependent lifestyle, so more dense construction, more bikes and pedestrians, and less idling cars.

Some politicians seem to think the answer to everything are malls and casinos surrounded by parking lots - neither have much of a track record in generating any kind of benefit. The're usually a sink for limited city resources due to needed infrastructure and services.

 

[OttoMets]

This point in the article debunks Ed Michelanko's argument that a grid would be detrimental to the environment. It was a weak argument to begin with. I'd would love to know how much cash traded hands between some of these representatives and Congel.

"To be sustainable, the city must have a population that sees the importance of community, ecology and place. If the city has no population, no amount of clean air or urban forest will matter. As a grid moves through-traffic away from the city core, suburban communities can share the burden of accommodating such traffic and ESF scientists can work with community leaders on exemplary forest and wetland innovations that can mitigate the impacts on the areas around I-481.”

Ed's been disingenuous; I'm not exactly sympathetic to him, but he's in a tough position. He's a scientist. He knows that the grid is the only way to go; he's acknowledged as much privately. But his supervisors and a lot of his constituents are anti-grid for one reason or another. So he's anti-grid.

 

[OttoMets]

Upstate Medical joins growing chorus in support of I-81 grid

Now getting the hospitals on board as well should officially end this discussion.

The other Hill institutions said for years that they wouldn't announce their support until SU did. And Syverud didn't want to take a public side until the grid was a foregone conclusion.

So there's cause for optimism right now.

 

[Fly Rodder]

So there's cause for optimism right now.

I just can't wait for the 3-4 years of construction that should already be over by now or at least nearing completion.

 

[FrancoPizza]

ESF hops on board as well:

SUNY ESF sold on I-81 grid option after briefing by NY officials

The article reads like the State is currently pitching the benefits of the grid option. Hopefully a good sign of things to come.

I love these quotes:

It is a move in the right direction to begin to address social justice issues related to the bisection of the historic 15th Ward.

"The grid is the best solution to reconnect parts of the city that were physically disconnected – quite intentionally – with the misguided urban renewal programs of the 1960s."

I'm not a grid hater, I just don't think the city planners will execute it competently. The syracuse surge idea to raze and turn Pioneer Homes into a kumbaya village with professors holding hands with drug dealers just makes no sense. Erect a 20-story apartment tower to replace the current housing and turn the rest of the land over to SU and the hospitals. Let them build something that actually spurs jobs and services.

Improving the quality of public housing just makes things more comfortable, it doesn't inspire or motivate. If the government decided to build an addition to my house or put in new flooring and insulation for free, why would I consider leaving?