Dome Renovation

[Toga]

Probably pretty close. There are always ways to do these things. Rockefeller built the entire Albany government mall by having the city build it with state guaranteed bonds supported by a state lease.
I imagine when we see the details we will see some interesting structures. Syverud has probably prepped the BOT pretty thoroughly.

It's all a write off.

 

[KaiserUEO]

My last post was #168 in this thread, so I need some help here to catch up.

What final four are you guys discussing???

Obviously, it's not men's hoop, so what is it??

I know the women's field hockey team has been killin it for years, is it them???

That would be cool.

Thanks in advance for the help in getting caught up....

 

[reedny]

Also under that deal SU would no longer have right of refusal. Meaning if the county/city decided they wanted to hold taste of syracuse in there during the summer or some other evenSU had no choice but to go along with it. Total non starter from what I was told.

And I believe Minor was also pushing for infrastructure improvements that went well beyond the project scope (as CF78 noted).

 

[reedny]

I'm not privy to the inner workings of what happened but it seemed pretty foolish to me at the time to announce the plan before having an open, public discussion that included the mayor and the city residents. There didn't seem to be any compromise on either side. I was all for it by the way but can see why she would want to put the brakes on. Shouldn't there have been some public discussion on the project?

You have the right idea. But sometimes public projects work in the opposite way ... before the project is made public, the major stakeholders put out some feelers, have a few studies done, etc. Then they figure out amongst themselves what will work given available funding, get on the same page with a design and then go public.

The way they did this last time was the reverse ... they went public before the stakeholders were in agreement. The project almost immediately stalled.

 

[Cuseregular]

My last post was #168 in this thread, so I need some help here to catch up.

What final four are you guys discussing???

Obviously, it's not men's hoop, so what is it??

I know the women's field hockey team has been killin it for years, is it them???

That would be cool.

Thanks in advance for the help in getting caught up...

dude you're so behind, ya didn't hear? We got the 2025 NCAA mens FF!

What could go wrong?! Especially when Syracuse is at it's finest in late March early April. Fun fun I tell ya!

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Good question - I was using that 10,000 number from a post CuseATL made earlier today or yesterday; I think he included a link or something.

Regarding the official hotels, I'm not sure if there are any requirements the NCAA has made publicly available; I was just estimating based on past experience and observation (I'm sure I saw something years ago - they're very specific). I'm thinking that at least 5 or 6 hotels need to meet some pretty stringent requirements (as TomCat noted - four hotels for the teams, one for the press, one for the NCAA [between the actual working stiffs and the NCAA folks who make a vacation of it, that's a lot of people], another for the coaches). Our market doesn't seem to support that kind of hotel, but the new Hotel Syracuse will be one of this type. Maybe more will be developed as our economy continues to shift.

We could conceivably play at home for a Final Four - that's the one round in which there's an exception to the "no home court" rule. It comes up so rarely.

As has been said, this would be a very cool event for the community and could be pursued, but there are some big changes to the local hotel scene that would have to take place for this to be a possibility. It's a long way off.

I just want to see this in some official capacity. I thought the exception was for hometown. For instance. Villanova could have a FF in Philly so long as its not at their home pavilion, or St. JOhns could play in MSG as they also have an on campus "home" arena.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Dayton in the first four and any final four participant can play on their home court.

Then why has it been stated multiple times over that Syracuse can't play in the Syracuse Region when we have the tourney. I think you are wrong on this, but then again based on my opinion and what I have read. Is there a printed set of criteria? that's all I am asking for. Half t his thread is about getting a final four.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

You have the right idea. But sometimes public projects work in the opposite way ... before the project is made public, the major stakeholders put out some feelers, have a few studies done, etc. Then they figure out amongst themselves what will work given available funding, get on the same page with a design and then go public.

The way they did this last time was the reverse ... they went public before the stakeholders were in agreement. The project almost immediately stalled.

This is exactly whats happening with 81 - that decision has surely been "made" the rest is smoke and mirrors.

 

[rrlbees]

Then why has it been stated multiple times over that Syracuse can't play in the Syracuse Region when we have the tourney. I think you are wrong on this, but then again based on my opinion and what I have read. Is there a printed set of criteria? that's all I am asking for. Half t his thread is about getting a final four.

Syracuse can't play in the east region because that's the regionals and you can't play on your home court. All final four courts are considered neutral.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Syracuse can't play in the east region because that's the regionals and you can't play on your home court. All final four courts are considered neutral.

Ok where can I find that clause just to read up. thanks in advance

 

[Cusefan78]

Syracuse can't play in the east region because that's the regionals and you can't play on your home court. All final four courts are considered neutral.

This is true. teams can't play Regionals on the court that they play their home games on. After the Regionals it's doesn't matter

 

[rrlbees]

Ok where can I find that clause just to read up. thanks in advance

Venues

In the men's tournament, all sites are nominally neutral: teams are prohibited from playing tournament games on their home courts prior to the Final Four (though in some cases, a team may be fortunate enough to play in or near its home state or city). By current NCAA rules, any court on which a team hosts more than three regular-season games (in other words, not including conference tournament games) is considered a "home court".[7] The exception to this rule is the University of Dayton, which would be allowed to play a game in the "First Four" round in their home arena[8] as they did in 2015.

However, while a team can be moved to a different region if its home court is being used during any of the first two weeks of the tournament, the Final Four venue is determined years in advance, and cannot be changed regardless of participants. For this reason, in theory, a team could play in a Final Four on its home court; in reality, this would be unlikely, since the Final Four is usually staged at a venue larger than most college basketball arenas. (The most recent team to play the Final Four in its home city was Butler during 2010; its home court seats only 10,000, as opposed to the 70,000-plus of Lucas Oil Stadium in its Final Four configuration.)

 

[Bayside44]

Ok where can I find that clause just to read up. thanks in advance

The last time this was played in an on campus arena was what, Kentucky in 1985? and they advanced pretty far that year.

Cuse won't get it for a small venue, lack of hotel space, small airport, etc, not because of our hoop team.

 

[reedny]

This is exactly whats happening with 81 - that decision has surely been "made" the rest is smoke and mirrors.

Yep, and I suspect that, as Mark said a dozen pages ago, the state will provide the lion's share of the funding on this project even if the Dome remains on campus. No disrespect to the posts about public investment at private universities, but lots of public money gets invested in far less public (or quasi-public) enterprises than the Dome. I expect to see continued mixed public use at the Dome -- mostly SU sports along with HS sports championships, concerts and other public events -- but the main justification for the funding is the economic benefit to the region. You can argue that "it's the same people", or that the team needs to be better. But wins have a strange way of finding the University when it builds glistening new sports facilities on the hill. As the team does better, so will the region.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Venues

In the men's tournament, all sites are nominally neutral: teams are prohibited from playing tournament games on their home courts prior to the Final Four (though in some cases, a team may be fortunate enough to play in or near its home state or city). By current NCAA rules, any court on which a team hosts more than three regular-season games (in other words, not including conference tournament games) is considered a "home court".[7] The exception to this rule is the University of Dayton, which would be allowed to play a game in the "First Four" round in their home arena[8] as they did in 2015.

However, while a team can be moved to a different region if its home court is being used during any of the first two weeks of the tournament, the Final Four venue is determined years in advance, and cannot be changed regardless of participants. For this reason, in theory, a team could play in a Final Four on its home court; in reality, this would be unlikely, since the Final Four is usually staged at a venue larger than most college basketball arenas. (The most recent team to play the Final Four in its home city was Butler during 2010; its home court seats only 10,000, as opposed to the 70,000-plus of Lucas Oil Stadium in its Final Four configuration.)

Thank you so much. All I wanted to see. stand corrected

 

[Toga]

Yep, and I suspect that, as Mark said a dozen pages ago, the state will provide the lion's share of the funding on this project even if the Dome remains on campus. No disrespect to the posts about public investment at private universities, but lots of public money gets invested in far less public (or quasi-public) enterprises than the Dome. I expect to see continued mixed public use at the Dome -- mostly SU sports along with HS sports championships, concerts and other public events -- but the main justification for the funding is the economic benefit to the region. You can argue that "it's the same people", or that the team needs to be better. But wins have a strange way of finding the University when it builds glistening new sports facilities on the hill.

If not now - when? The State has money to give to an upstate region that isn't Buffalo or the Capital District. The Governor loves the County Exec. The Chancellor is savvy and interest rates are at historic lows. Oh, and SU also gets a medical school.

 

[rrlbees]

Thank you so much. All I wanted to see. stand corrected

But like others have said, with the 60k min seating, we'd have to get some kind of waiver, which is doubtful. With that high of a min and with nobody playing in that size arena, they don't have to worry about it.

 

[retro44]

I was simply asking what PLA stood for. I haven't mocked anything. (What has a dorm have to do with anything?)

If the gov was behind it with support from the city, county and university and put it in his budget as planned something would have happened.There is no way SU would not have gotten its hands on that money. It appears they have just in a different location.

Sorry...PLA=project labor agreement. Which usually means local labor to be used with sometimes a percentage is to be local unions with usually a no strike clause and sometimes no wage increase agreements or even 80% of union scale to cut labor costs to keep most money to stay local. Anything can be put into those agreements and are binding.

The builders of the dorms were using illegals and that is why homeland raided them and COR hires alot of Latinos that have questionable backgrounds

 

[KellySyracuse]

Syracuse can't play in the east region because that's the regionals and you can't play on your home court. All final four courts are considered neutral.

well that settles that

 

[SUbear]

Thanks was just wondering. Can you share where you are getting the "selection criteria" of hotels and the such as it pertains to a final four. That being said, I don't believe a Final Four can be played in the dome on campus unless we abstain from playing. Substantive discussion on this board about even having a regional final and us in the region have been discussed. I am not sure how then a FF is in realm of reality. So I was hoping to look that criteria over.

The rule on teams not being eligible to play in a regional in their own facility does not apply to a final four venue.

 

[SUbear]

The last time this was played in an on campus arena was what, Kentucky in 1985? and they advanced pretty far that year.

Cuse won't get it for a small venue, lack of hotel space, small airport, etc, not because of our hoop team.

Airport is not really as big an issue as you think. Hancock has two of the longest runways in the northeast, many emergency landings are diverted to Hancock for this reason.
The volume of traffic in and out could be easily increased for a final four, even if only temporarily. Biggest problem might be ramping up the TSA locally.

 

[KellySyracuse]

What I don't think has been mentioned yet, SU basketball draws a large enough crowd that cannot be accommodated in any other basketball arena in the state. Even the Guv stated as much, I can see the state investment to make the site a year round multi use facility

 

[reedny]

For those (mostly Syracuse locals) who like the idea of an off campus facility (Destiny seems like the consensus), I'd like to hear ideas about what should happen with the Dome in the future. For example:

- should the Dome remain an on-campus sports facility?
- If so, for what teams? Basketball/LAX only (FB to play off-campus)?
- assuming the Dome remains a sports venue in some form, it will still need a roof and other minimal repairs and/or upgrades, should those upgrades go forward using public funds (they would be needed)?
- If the FB team plays off campus, would players get bused from campus to the facility?
- would there be some kind of transportation system to connect SU with the new facility?
- would the new facility be state/authority run, with SU as a tenant?
- What if the new facility isn't successful or looses money, as happened at Louisville (which is BB only)?

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Sorry if this has already been answered elsewhere, but when is the BOT's meeting where the stadium renovation/rebuild will be discussed? This is exciting to contemplate and all but it will be even more exciting when we get to react to actual decisions rather than speculation.

(And I'm not criticizing the speculation -- comments from you guys who are closer to the situation up on the hill are greatly appreciated!)

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Sorry if this has already been answered elsewhere, but when is the BOT's meeting where the stadium renovation/rebuild will be discussed? This is exciting to contemplate and all but it will be even more exciting when we get to react to actual decisions rather than speculation.

(And I'm not criticizing the speculation -- comments from you guys who are closer to the situation up on the hill are greatly appreciated!)

November.