Dome Renovation

[Crusty]

It's absolutely comparable as a govt run venue with a college as the major tenant. The Yum Center is losing millions of dollars a year (as most municipal venues do) and is struggling to pay its bills. Both the county and the city are pointing to each other to bridge the gap.

As stated by another poster, this project was not being seriously considered. SU was just using it as a marketing tool to get fundraising support for the project they really wanted which was on campus.

No it is not. They don't have a football tenant they pays millions a year.

 

[Toga]

Mental note to self: next time going to Rochester, bring a loaf of bread and ham.

Forget the loaf. Two thin slices and you're done.

 

[cuseinchina]

1. The university isn't going to pick up and leave, and it's not going to fail because the dome isn't overhauled top to bottom.
2. The only thing that NEEDS to be done is a new roof, everything else is to improve the experience for the people already going.
3. The primary beneficiaries should bear the cost, if your attitude is that the sports teams are a resource of the university first, then the university should finance it.

1.It's not going to pick up and leave but its value to alumni, current students, and the community will definitely suffer if the things that make SU special are allowed to degrade. That's why the board and the chancellor are investing in the future if athletics right now - because they need to.

2.I love they dome but it is uncomfortable. My partner who is a UF fan, she's only going to come to games with me and bring her kids if she can have a pleasant experience. She will go to games in NYC but she went to the dome once and had enough. Casual fans will be enticed by an upgraded experience inside. I don't think parking is the primary driver of attendance

3. My attitude is that everything about the university supports and is good for the community. So as a community member you should want the university to be as strong as it can be for itself and take the spillover benefits that come with their success. This is college athletics not a syracuse pro sports team

 

[Bayside44]

Alittle off topic but isnt the DC United new stadium going to be near Nats stadium

Yep, other side of South Cap...

 

[Cuseregular]

SU is about to announce the most important initiative since the Carrier Dome, the majority portion of which was paid for by the state, and we are quibling about location and public money. This attitude is why so many leave CNY when they are grown. The negativism is mind boggling. Our conference mates would be jumping with joy and optimism. Time to stop second guessing and complaining and get behind the Chancellor and TBOT.

ridiculous response. Has nothing to do with mindsets of negativity and if anything has everything to do with people of the area being smarter than the dopey average football fan and having half a brain to want maximize the impact of such a great project in the manner of which you descibe.

Unless I'm missing it in here NO ONE is against the concept at all but rather want to be sure, or hope to be sure, that it is done with some forethought above and beyond of taking the simple route of mindlessly just redoing the dome. Like I said great if it comes down to it, fine and dandy, and eey hah!, certainly I truly think we'll all be excited and on board...

But lets take a deep breath get some public input and thoughts and consider everything before they make the final decision. Has zero to do with the nonsensical slam of the area that has no basis in fact in this discussion. If anything, again, it's the opposite where people would leave because of the status quo of dumb local politicians and power brokers making decisions without proper analysis and forward thinking vision, as in the baseball stadium location.

 

[Millhouse]

Why do people keep insisting that the only Dome parking is downhill from SU? I've parked in several different places for games and I've never walked uphill.

http://www.monsterjam.com/uploadedImages/News/2010/syracuse mj pc 009.jpg

 

[HeaterCuse22]

The FF is an exception, I believe. For example, if Seton Hall was in the FF in 96, they would have played on their home court in the Meadowlands.

Meadowlands is not their actual home stadium though. Walsh Gymnasium is their "Home" Stadium/Arena/Gym

 

[Crusty]

I tell you what,Mahoney won't turn her back on the local labor here also.You will be surprised then if you think otherwise.She will again and has signed PLA'S in the very recent past and is more willing than Minor. Mock it all you want. Those dorms that was built next to the fine lot had to be raided by homeland security and know one politician will want to deal with another thing like that again.

Local labor is not happy with Minor...

I was simply asking what PLA stood for. I haven't mocked anything. (What has a dorm have to do with anything?)

If the gov was behind it with support from the city, county and university and put it in his budget as planned something would have happened.There is no way SU would not have gotten its hands on that money. It appears they have just in a different location.

 

[Toga]

Personally I would like a project that is so over the top freaking awesome that it would make Jerry Jones or the Sultan of Brunei blush.

 

[OttoMets]

A Mariott was just built in Downtown Syracuse, and Hotel Syracuse is being run by Mariott with almost 300 rooms that are built to Mariott standards. There is a hotel being built in the inner harbor, another hotel being built in Carrier Circle, and there's likely to be a hotel built inside/alongside Destiny in the VERY near future.

Syracuse tourism is skyrocketing, and because of this the hotel situation in Syracuse is rapidly improving and growing. Remember that Syracuse is not going to be hosting next year's final four. If they ever do host a final four it will be ten years (or more) in the future. There is a night and day difference between Syracuse ten years ago and Syracuse now, and in another decade the difference will be even more significant.

When you project out into the future, the number of hotel rooms should not be a problem, especially when you consider that the new stadium will hold 40+ thousand fans and not the 80+ thousand fans as some of these sites do.

There is no way this proposal happens without state money, and you have to ask yourself why the state would want to pour all that money into a private university project that's not going to create much (if any) revenue that the current Dome is not already creating. Aiming to host a final four might be the answer to this question.

Just one final four scheduled in Syracuse would justify the cost of this project. If Syracuse could, say, host a final four once a decade it would be a major coup for New York state as a whole. There are zero cities the size of Syracuse that hold events as large as a final four. I can't even think of a city Syracuse's size that hosts an event the scale of an Elite 8/Sweet 16 which we did an excellent job with this last year especially. Just being able to have a conversation about this means that big exciting things are happening, and at this point I don't think you can rule anything out.

Perhaps you didn't mean to quote me on this one. Since you're just about the last poster I'd expect to miss my earlier point, I'll reply and reiterate that Onondaga County's NCAA hotel problem is just as much a venue problem as it is a capacity problem.

Even if a new Dome's 40,000 capacity would prompt the NCAA to relax its 10,000-room requirement (which is possible, though none of us on here knows what the NCAA capacity in the renovated Dome might be), that doesn't change the fact that this area has very few full-service, upscale hotels of 250+ rooms.

As I said, the market supports ~120-room mid-market hotels. That's all that's built in Carrier Circle, that's what the two Starwood properties at the harbor are, and that's what was built downtown (a Courtyard by Marriott is very different from a Marriott). And the NCAA doesn't use those properties for its events.

Syracuse isn't sniffing any Final Four until about 2025 (if this ever comes to a bid). The new Marriott Hotel Syracuse would certainly meet its standards. And maybe five or so additional suitable hotels will be built in the interim (my hunch is that the hotel built at Destiny would be a limited-service Holiday Inn type property, but we'll see). Anyway, a significant change in Onondaga County's lodging situation is certainly a prerequisite for hosting a Final Four.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Perhaps you didn't mean to quote me on this one. Since you're just about the last poster I'd expect to miss my earlier point, I'll reply and reiterate that Onondaga County's NCAA hotel problem is just as much a venue problem as it is a capacity problem.

Even if a new Dome's 40,000 capacity would prompt the NCAA to relax its 10,000-room requirement (which is possible, though none of us on here knows what the NCAA capacity in the renovated Dome might be), that doesn't change the fact that this area has very few full-service, upscale hotels of 250+ rooms.

As I said, the market supports ~120-room mid-market hotels. That's all that's built in Carrier Circle, that's what the two Starwood properties at the harbor are, and that's what was built downtown (a Courtyard by Marriott is very different from a Marriott). And the NCAA doesn't use those properties for its events.

Syracuse isn't sniffing any Final Four until about 2025 (if this ever comes to a bid). The new Marriott Hotel Syracuse would certainly meet its standards. And maybe five or so additional suitable hotels will be built in the interim (my hunch is that the hotel built at Destiny would be a limited-service Holiday Inn type property, but we'll see). Anyway, a significant change in Onondaga County's lodging situation is certainly a prerequisite for hosting a Final Four.

Just a question but do you live in Syracuse?

 

[Zcuse]

I've said in this thread if the University is going to do this on their own nickle they should go for it.

So, If it remains on campus, but benefits the region (and your alma mater's students btw), you are not for a plug nickel of state money going to it.

If it is located next to a mall, with a parking lot available for BBQs, you are all for state money going to it. I get it.

Excellent line in the sand you've drawn. What a fan.

 

[OttoMets]

Eh, Nats Park was a built in the last part of DC that had s e x bath houses and such and other things you describe. Even though those are gone Chip still goes to games.

Don't just do a drive by, spend some time in and around the area and you'll know why its a place to avoid. Key being around the area. I don't want something like this where a few blocks a way some of the cretins can make it in walking distance from the huge appartment building they house a VERY LARGE amount of s e x offenders and other criminals. Don't want it that close. And some of the other surrounding areas so close too. Dicey, to say the least.

Yeah, those Greenleaf and James Creek projects are still a half block away from the Natinals' park. Development on South Capitol has counterbalanced some of that problem.

I really think the Kennedy Square stuff is overrated (and I've walked through that area hundreds of times in the past five years...feels a lot safer than that DC counterpart did in 2006 and 2007). In a city as small as Syracuse, everything's an easy walk for criminal types - sure, random crime can happen anywhere, but I don't the couple of pedo buildings in Hawley-Green represent a threat to development at Kennedy Square. For the most part people on the sidewalk look to be ESF grad students and Asian kids walking up and down North Crouse to get to school.

 

[OttoMets]

Just a question but do you live in Syracuse?

I do

 

[HeaterCuse22]

I do

Thanks was just wondering. Can you share where you are getting the "selection criteria" of hotels and the such as it pertains to a final four. That being said, I don't believe a Final Four can be played in the dome on campus unless we abstain from playing. Substantive discussion on this board about even having a regional final and us in the region have been discussed. I am not sure how then a FF is in realm of reality. So I was hoping to look that criteria over.

 

[Crusty]

ridiculous response. Has nothing to do with mindsets of negativity and if anything has everything to do with people of the area being smarter than the dopey average football fan and having half a brain to want maximize the impact of such a great project in the manner of which you descibe.

Unless I'm missing it in here NO ONE is against the concept at all but rather want to be sure, or hope to be sure, that it is done with some forethought above and beyond of taking the simple route of mindlessly just redoing the dome. Like I said great if it comes down to it, fine and dandy, and eey hah!, certainly I truly think we'll all be excited and on board...

But lets take a deep breath get some public input and thoughts and consider everything before they make the final decision. Has zero to do with the nonsensical slam of the area that has no basis in fact in this discussion. If anything, again, it's the opposite where people would leave because of the status quo of dumb local politicians and power brokers making decisions without proper analysis and forward thinking vision, as in the baseball stadium location.

We all have our perspective. I think we get the type and quality of government that we deserve, or that matches your culture if you prefer. After all, we elect them. Assuming the state is involved and about to cough up 500 million to a project that has been studied for years, arguing over options that don't even exist anymore is counter productive in my view. The first instinct of many seems to be negative and critical. We will just have to disagree.

 

[Zcuse]

If the overwhelming beneficiary of the investment is the school and the existing fan base, why shouldn't the school pay for it.
If the intention is to expand usage to additional events, I'm not sure how that location is going to accommodate a significant increase in the number of those events.

The logistics are difficult for the patrons and are going to be disruptive for the students.

So, are you saying they won't have concerts, and other events (statewide HS playoffs, and many others) at the dome like they do now?

 

[NJCuse97]

http://colefieldhouse.umd.edu/

Some more information on what UMD is doing. I can see some of this applied to the Dome conversation, especially since this was also conceptualized by Populous.

 

[OttoMets]

Thanks was just wondering. Can you share where you are getting the "selection criteria" of hotels and the such as it pertains to a final four. That being said, I don't believe a Final Four can be played in the dome on campus unless we abstain from playing. Substantive discussion on this board about even having a regional final and us in the region have been discussed. I am not sure how then a FF is in realm of reality. So I was hoping to look that criteria over.

Good question - I was using that 10,000 number from a post CuseATL made earlier today or yesterday; I think he included a link or something.

Regarding the official hotels, I'm not sure if there are any requirements the NCAA has made publicly available; I was just estimating based on past experience and observation (I'm sure I saw something years ago - they're very specific). I'm thinking that at least 5 or 6 hotels need to meet some pretty stringent requirements (as TomCat noted - four hotels for the teams, one for the press, one for the NCAA [between the actual working stiffs and the NCAA folks who make a vacation of it, that's a lot of people], another for the coaches). Our market doesn't seem to support that kind of hotel, but the new Hotel Syracuse will be one of this type. Maybe more will be developed as our economy continues to shift.

We could conceivably play at home for a Final Four - that's the one round in which there's an exception to the "no home court" rule. It comes up so rarely.

As has been said, this would be a very cool event for the community and could be pursued, but there are some big changes to the local hotel scene that would have to take place for this to be a possibility. It's a long way off.

 

[Cuseregular]

We all have our perspective. I think we get the type and quality of government that we deserve, or that matches your culture if you prefer. After all, we elect them. Assuming the state is involved and about to cough up 500 million to a project that has been studied for years, arguing over options that don't even exist anymore is counter productive in my view. The first instinct of many seems to be negative and critical. We will just have to disagree.

got ya. Is it a done deal though, I wouldn't have wasted half a day on here if so?!

 

[Newhouser]

I thought another major drawback for our Final Four chances - or lack thereof - is the fact that our airport does not have enough flights. Personally I think we are closer on hotel numbers than flights.

 

[Crusty]

got ya. Is it a done deal though?

Probably pretty close. There are always ways to do these things. Rockefeller built the entire Albany government mall by having the city build it with state guaranteed bonds supported by a state lease.
I imagine when we see the details we will see some interesting structures. Syverud has probably prepped the BOT pretty thoroughly.

 

[Cuseregular]

Probably pretty close. There are always ways to do these things. Rockefeller built the entire Albany government mall by having the city build it with state guaranteed bonds supported by a state lease.
I imagine when we see the details we will see some interesting structures. Syverud has probably prepped the BOT pretty thoroughly.

yep gonna assume that's why McNabb was in town and why we're seeing all the politicians on Tv this past week as it must be front and center right now, but as I went back and edited my last post, if this is a done deal I wouldn't have wasted half a day on here with all this banter if that's the case!

 

[rrlbees]

Thanks was just wondering. Can you share where you are getting the "selection criteria" of hotels and the such as it pertains to a final four. That being said, I don't believe a Final Four can be played in the dome on campus unless we abstain from playing. Substantive discussion on this board about even having a regional final and us in the region have been discussed. I am not sure how then a FF is in realm of reality. So I was hoping to look that criteria over.

Dayton in the first four and any final four participant can play on their home court.

 

[Cuseregular]

Probably pretty close. There are always ways to do these things. Rockefeller built the entire Albany government mall by having the city build it with state guaranteed bonds supported by a state lease.
I imagine when we see the details we will see some interesting structures. Syverud has probably prepped the BOT pretty thoroughly.

and how do you know so much about something that occured so long ago with Albany