Dome Renovation

[Jeepers]

My bad, 307 million to renovate MSG in 2013. 130 for the Ralph. If they were to scrap everything and build new, I still think you are looking at over 500 million between New Construction and Demolition.

I'm no architect, but all you have to do is look around. They always just raze buildings. And since it always comes down to money, I have to assume it's cheaper to just go down to the foundation and start over.

We saw with the IPF that they'll cut corners. The IPF was supposed to have windows around the top, too.

 

[GoSU96]

I'm no architect, but all you have to do is look around. They always just raze buildings. And since it always comes down to money, I have to assume it's cheaper to just go down to the foundation and start over.

We saw with the IPF that they'll cut corners. The IPF was supposed to have windows around the top, too.

It's a practice barn, who cares about windows.

 

[rrlbees]

I can't imagine us getting a final 4 with the current seating setup. And I dont know how they can add seats at the same time of making the seats more comfortable without changing the internal seat structure. So I read that, thinking it was a complete overhaul. Otherwise 400-500 million is a lot.

We're seeing $400-500m and the word Dome and thinking it's the cost for the Dome reno. I think those kind of numbers are much more than a Dome reno. Dome reno minimizes what it really is as a project.

If we're integrating archbold and the Falk school into the facility, there will no doubt be renos to those building besides connecting them. There appears per the article this proposal includes a new building on the Irving side. As a ripple effect there would be impacts to current roads, parking lots and walkways. Even landscaping would need to be completely redone. It's much more than just renovating the Dome. It's not a facelift. It almost becomes a new complex for that whole part of campus.

 

[Jeepers]

It's a practice barn, who cares about windows.

Agreed. Just pointing out something that would probably be the first cut for this dome mockup.

 

[cuseinchina]

Who said anything about a generic box? The reason you would go there is multiple, but a big one would be that you could build out on a blank canvas anything but a "generic box".

Ok so you wish we'd build a new stadium that looks like a soccer stadium over by the mall. And I am super excited by the fact that the chancellor is viewing this in a more nuanced way and understands the true value of athletics to the university and can see that having the dome on campus is a big part of that value. It's difficult to put that concept in to words, but the guy gets it. We will agree to disagree on what constitutes generic.

 

[cuseinchina]

I seriously doubt the hotel part. There are several hotels under construction/planned in the downtown area. The SU Sheraton sells out for maybe four games a year: Family Weekend, Homecoming, LSU (or equivalent), FSU/Clemson. The price gets jacked up for those weekends, so you can figure a hotel overlooking the field to charge $400-500/night with two nights required. It would probably not meet operating costs on week days. I just don't see it happening.

What do you think is break-even average occupancy for a typical upscale but not luxury hotel in a mid sized market? I don't know the answer but I am pretty sure it's below 70%.

EDIT - just looked at starwood's reporting and in their cycle low year (2009), average occupancy was 65% and they still had a 9% operating margin and 6% net profit margin. Obviously that is an average across many different kinds of markets, but you could assume maybe 60 % is breakeven based on that. I would think the university could generate that kind of room traffic for most of the year. but maybe not, anyone know anything about this?

 

[KellySyracuse]

Hydraulic stands that close in (or raise up/lower) around the basketball court is literally all I care about. Is this happening?


Personally, I think the retractable roof idea is unnecessary. It can be used for like 3 football games each season? Considering the loudness of the Dome used to be one of the bigger advantages we had (when it was packed), it seems odd to want to do away with that.

I'm good without the retractable roof but would want it to at least allow the sunlight in. A clear roof with windows built into the walls

 

[MSOrange]

Any fan should understand how the sports programs fit into the unique culture and 'feel' of the school. Having the dome on campus is such an important part of that. Get rid of that feel, and you take something unique and make it generic. Given the less than ideal backdrop of the city of Syracuse, a move towards generic would be disastrous. The long-term outcome of that is bad for the university and bad for the sports programs. This chancellor is maximizing value for all constituents. I love it.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel. There is just something missing to me when a college doesn't play on campus. Granted I don't live in the area so my perspective is purely from a distance. I went to a smaller school that played off campus during my time there. Now that they have an on-campus basketball facility, the atmosphere is tremendously better. But again, much smaller scale than Syracuse athletics.

 

[OttoMets]

Are they really proposing to remove 3 walls? Or integrating other buildings via openings, walkways, doors? Anything on the exterior, does it really impact seating sight lines? I didn't take that article at all as tearing out the internal seating structure. Adding some boxes sure or maybe renovating some bleachers to seating but not a total redo to the basic inside structure.

I do believe the stands themselves are going to be reconstructed.

Most walls will effectively be removed, with the new wing dominating the west end and a new structure to the north.

 

[cuseinchina]

I could be incorrect, but I think china's point was not in the literal sense, but the fact that so many cities today (much bigger than Syracuse to boot) have a stand alone stadium -state of the art- Uptown/Downtown where nothing really separates it from the other or makes it unique. The Dome being on campus is very unique in and of itself, SU can capitalize on that and truly make it a one of a kind...an intimate gem. Maybe not the biggest, best, etc. as no way can it compete with the Cowboys stadium, or the Mercedes Benz jewel being built in Atlanta, but on a different scale, SU's (renovated) dome can truly be unique as well as impressive.

Yup, exactly - the dome is unique, the success of Syracuse sports given the backdrop is unique. This new facility will be unique and in keeping with those two elements that make the school what it is. This will FEEL like Syracuse, some box by the mall in a partially cleaned up industrial wasteland is not going to feel like anything. Visit Philly's sports complex if you want a taste of that.

Of course we will have to wait and see what the end product looks like - but the actions of this chancellor to date tell me we should not be worried.

Lets just hope the Faegan's redux will be nearly as good! I'm afraid they will turn that into a generic irish pub like you'd find in an outlet shopping mall but we will see.

 

[OttoMets]

Not sure how accurate it is, but my friend who works for the University stated that there has been talks of the Sheraton being torn down or remodeled and used for some type of student facility.

This is a long-term possibility (they did just spend a lot on a renovation).

It's very well-regarded within Starwood, but the physical space doesn't work well. It's a limited building of an era - very linear, dark guest rooms; terrible use of space in a great location.

If SU wants to move more students closer to campus, this would be a natural location for a mid-rise dorm in 15 years.

 

[OttoMets]

I hope they keep the basic seating structure as is. Having watched games in multiple stadiums I love watching games at the Dome. You are so close to the field and its so compact with excellent site lines. Please keep that !!

I wish.

We're going to lose some of this, unfortunately.

 

[KellySyracuse]

San Antonio for sports events is actually world class. The River Walk, historical sites, generally sunny skies and a short walk to the Alamo Dome are hard to beat.

BTW, it is only 105 in the summer

I've been there many times although it's always been in August. I really, really dislike it - the river walk is okay, a bunch of stores and bars to walk too. No fun when it's hotter than blazes outside.

 

[OttoMets]

And you might not need a Ritz and JW, but I seriously doubt a town where the high end hotels are the remodeled Hotel Syracuse, a Crown Plaza and a Courtyard is getting a final four.

It's just not happening.

This is as real an obstacle as any. Tough to score a big event when the bulk of the community's hotel rooms are in 120-room mid-market properties. Even if the seating capacity and hotel room number limits were relaxed by the NCAA, they'd still require 4-6 hotels of at least a Marriott/Hilton quality level, each with over 250 rooms. And that's not in the pipeline around here.

 

[GoSU96]

Ok so you wish we'd build a new stadium that looks like a soccer stadium over by the mall. And I am super excited by the fact that the chancellor is viewing this in a more nuanced way and understands the true value of athletics to the university and can see that having the dome on campus is a big part of that value. It's difficult to put that concept in to words, but the guy gets it. We will agree to disagree on what constitutes generic.

Hey if they can get the state to drop a bundle a dome refurb, remodel, replacement, more power to them, I'd hope the State would be looking for some return.

If they can find the finding the financing to do this on their own I wonder what the business case is.

 

[Brooky03]

I'm good without the retractable roof but would want it to at least allow the sunlight in. A clear roof with windows built into the walls

I like this idea

 

[reedny]

Yeah that's what I'm guessing. More basketball seats.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

holy sheet, if true. Great...I guess.

But to spend that much while addressing zero the propects of an even worse parking situation likely, and to not have it downtown near destiny which would help Syracuse in general and also would take care of the parking issue and simultaneously create a potentially special tailgating environment, while spending this much $, which I think could build a whole new venue, to not have it where you can hit a home run and hit all the bases strikes me as shortsighted and nuts.

But no surprise really to have a lack of foresight. A baseball stadium like situation (though not as bad)...shocker, NOT. And to increase the capacity? Crazy talk. I know I have no foresight or vision to dream. Gonna love and can't wait to see 25-30,000 seats empty instead of the current 20-25,000. :bang:

 

[Cusefan78]

I do believe the stands themselves are going to be reconstructed.

Most walls will effectively be removed, with the new wing dominating the west end and a new structure to the north.

from what I heard this isn't the case. They are building around the current structure and just changing the seating. I'm guessing the added seating will come from a bigger mobile stand for basketball. Historically there has never been a need for as many football seats as we currently have. I'm also guessing that the added boxes will be on the basketball end of the stadium.

 

[FrancoPizza]

from what I heard this isn't the case. They are building around the current structure and just changing the seating..

That makes no sense. If you're going to build new perimeter walls, it's common sense to expand the concourses out to meet those walls.

 

[Cusefan78]

That makes no sense. If you're going to build new perimeter walls, it's common sense to expand the concourses out to meet those walls.

That's exactly what I meant by that. The actaul seating levels aren't changing.

 

[TexanMark]

So which gate does the monorail stop at?

 

[donniesyracuse]

This project is really going to begin after basketball season? That seems soon.

 

[TexanMark]

This project is really going to begin after basketball season? That seems soon.

They could do piling work...of course...the permitting w/Miner's crew could drag this out 2 extra years.

 

[FAL]

So which gate does the monorail stop at?

No monorail. Going to build a new elevated station for Ontrack which will stop at the Fine Mess Tailgate. Poor Jeremy and wife will have to set up a full day before the game and take another full day to clean up and break down to keep up with the anticipated increase in demand for their culinary expertise. University will step up, however, and provide a permanent grilling area fabricated from recycled pee troughs.

 

[Crusty]

No monorail. Going to build a new elevated station for Ontrack which will stop at the Fine Mess Tailgate. Poor Jeremy and wife will have to set up a full day before the game and take another full day to clean up and break down to keep up with the anticipated increase in demand for their culinary expertise. University will step up, however, and provide a permanent grilling area fabricated from recycled pee troughs.

Just won't leave those pee troughs alone. I know you're going to miss them.