Eric Ayala Derail Thread

[Ryand877]

It's getting tiresome. Everyone is an expert, and knows what the staff should have done, or be doing it seems.

The staff made some mistakes, sure. GMac isn't my top choice, sure. Things have been rough with the JB/Hop uncertainty, sure. We want depth, sure. Sure, I used sure surely too much.

Well we added Howard Washington at PG. With OB, Sidibe, and MM. To go along with Battle, and TT. Hopefully Frank, and PC improve. We do have two PGs, but since they don't seem to many to be Pearl, Sherm, or have the potential to become Scoop et cetera, then the sky is falling.

So many act like these kids are below us. Yes, we need a 3, and another guard. It shall come.

EA isn't the damn messiah. He seemingly doesn't want to come here, or is being pushed away by his camp. Time to move on to kids that want to be here. Like HW, MM, OB, Sidibe, TT. Our core for the future. Along with whoever wants to join up for 2017, whether it's for a year, or more. Then 2018, the talent is a plenty and we have a pretty nice program to recruit talent. I guess we're BC all of the sudden I hear.

I don't think we are BC, not even close. However, I'm not liking the trends I am seeing, at all. Sure, every story has two sides, no doubt. However, I can't help but find it disconcerting that we can't close on these top end recruits that we are pursuing, who say they are going to come, and back out at the last minute. Something is happening. I realize its not always or entirely our fault, but we aren't closing like we should be. I'm not sure what the solution is. JMO.

 

[Day2]

I agree...but the problem is we want to be a big boy but we can't recruit like a big boy. Take 17 for example, we offer all the big hitters and we literally missed on every single one of them.

I think JB was swinging for the fences with this class because he thought it was going to be his last year. It backfired, but I consider it a one-off. Unless he tries it again in a few years...

 

[orangefog]

Antonio Jardine - Basketball Recruiting - Player Profiles - ESPN

I remember him being referred to as a shooting guard when he first came in. I also remember hearing about how hard he worked during his redshirt year and the following summer to develop into a PG.

Nah, he was a PG in high school. You know how these schools are though, they have many more guards than big guys. He likely played off the ball at times as well. But, he was always a point guard.
At their request, this network is being blocked from this site.: Scoop Jardine Profile

 

[RF2044]

Who wasn't a point guard. Full stop.

And yet, we actively pursued Rysheed Jordan who was a point guard. Which completely debunks your theory about the staff not wanting to bring in two point guards in that class.

In fact, that's exactly what they attempted to do. And failing to do so, they eventually settled on Patterson as the second guard in the class instead.

It's okay to admit that the staff makes mistakes, and not a sign of disloyalty to point that out.

 

[Day2]

Nah, he was a PG in high school. You know how these schools are though, they have many more guards than big guys. He likely played off the ball at times as well. But, he was always a point guard.
At their request, this network is being blocked from this site.: Scoop Jardine Profile

Getting mixed messages from that link.

 

[JLine]

I don't think we are BC, not even close. However, I'm not liking the trends I am seeing, at all. Sure, every story has two sides, no doubt. However, I can't help but find it disconcerting that we can't close on these top end recruits that we are pursuing, who say they are going to come, and back out at the last minute. Something is happening. I realize its not always or entirely our fault, but we aren't closing like we should be. I'm not sure what the solution is. JMO.

I get the frustration on missing out on some highly rated recruits, and the recruiting in general lately. My main point is that we do have kids that can play at a high level. We will add more, and be alright. The biggest concern to me is that guy in your avatar, not our roster. Though, our roster may be better...

 

[Fly Rodder]

And yet, we actively pursued Rysheed Jordan who was a point guard. Which completely debunks your theory about the staff not wanting to bring in two point guards in that class.

Absolutely. Ennis committed in August and Jordan made an official visit in October, two months later.

Jordan was looking for a complete lock on the PG position. He wanted no comp and ended up at St. John's in April when he couldn't find anyone else to give him that guarantee.

 

[Day2]

And yet, we actively pursued Rysheed Jordan who was a point guard. Which completely debunks your theory about the staff not wanting to bring in two point guards in that class.

In fact, that's exactly what they attempted to do. And failing to do so, they eventually settled on Patterson as the second guard in the class instead.

It's okay to admit that the staff makes mistakes, and not a sign of disloyalty to point that out.

Jordan was ranked as high as Ennis, if not higher. You make exceptions when you're talking about two top-20 prospects.

Regardless, the Morris narrative no longer holds water. He signed before Ennis.

I've already pointed out that the staff made mistakes a few times in this thread.

 

[Fly Rodder]

We will add more, and be alright.

This is a wishy-washy hope, not a given. I have no doubt that SU will add another body or two. The question is whether they can play or not. What's "alright"? Bubble? 8-10 conference record? 12-6? 5-seed or higher? The first ACC tournament win?

 

[Day2]

This is a wishy-washy hope, not a given. I have no doubt that SU will add another body or two. The question is whether they can play or not. What's "alright"? Bubble? 8-10 conference record? 12-6? 5-seed or higher? The first ACC tournament win?

A year ago today, we offered Gillon. Two months later, White became available. Meanwhile, everything with Cavanaugh was under the radar. There are over 100 grad transfers this year, and probably more to come.

 

[RF2044]

Jordan was ranked as high as Ennis, if not higher. You make exceptions when you're talking about two top-20 prospects.

Regardless, the Morris narrative no longer holds water. He signed before Ennis.

I've already pointed out that the staff made mistakes a few times in this thread.

It absolutely holds water because the staff didn't offer. That's why he committed to a bird in the hand, instead of potentially holding off until after Ennis and then filling the spot on our roster that the staff was interested in having go to Rysheed Jordan. As you -- and I -- have acknowledged repeatedly, how Morris was handled proved to be a colossal mistake.

 

[JLine]

This is a wishy-washy hope, not a given. I have no doubt that SU will add another body or two. The question is whether they can play or not. What's "alright"? Bubble? 8-10 conference record? 12-6? 5-seed or higher? The first ACC tournament win?

Alright, meaning the future. Next year is going to be a rollercoaster ride like this past season. I know we want to win every year, but we all know deep down that it's a year to build towards 2018-2019, and beyond.

Not to say that I don't hope we add Tucker, and a Grad Transfer or two. Frank turns into a stud, and PC is a defensive menance. We win it all.

 

[pfister1]

I never said that we "selected" Patterson over Morris. I said that we eventually brought him in as the second guard in that class.

You said "We - as in the coaching staff - screwed up bringing in Patterson over Morris. It was a flawed recruiting strategy"

Maybe you meant it differently than it came off. In any case, my larger point was that looking back retrospectively, it is really hard to know when a decision on a kid was made or when actions may have been taken that effectively made that decision. After all the staff may not have made up its mind; but by not returning a call, or prioritizing watching one kids' game over anothers, you may get yourself crossed off a kid's list and have the decision made for (against) you.

 

[Cusefan0307]

A year ago today, we offered Gillon. Two months later, White became available. Meanwhile, everything with Cavanaugh was under the radar. There are over 100 grad transfers this year, and probably more to come.

And we still weren't alright this year. We can't compete with about a third of this conference. Aren't you sick of losing to UNC and Louisville? We are the Washington Generals when we play those schools. Now teams below us are passing us.

 

[Day2]

It absolutely holds water because the staff didn't offer. That's why he committed to a bird in the hand, instead of potentially holding off until after Ennis and then filling the spot on our roster that the staff was interested in having go to Rysheed Jordan. As you -- and I -- have acknowledged repeatedly, how Morris was handled proved to be a colossal mistake.

An offer would have put Ennis at risk. JB is on record stating this as a concern of his.

 

[RF2044]

A year ago today, we offered Gillon. Two months later, White became available. Meanwhile, everything with Cavanaugh was under the radar. There are over 100 grad transfers this year, and probably more to come.

White and Gillon were unusual in that they were both starting caliber. There is no guarantee that we'll find similar prospects amongst the fifth year transfer market to fill such gaps this offseason [especially with the recent news about the Rice transfer 3 selecting Florida]. It is definitely possible, but not a given -- and a dangerous game to be playing this late in the offseason with multiple holes on the roster to fill.

Three factors to keep in mind with fifth year transfers: [1] is anyone from the available talent pool at the position of need starting caliber? [2] will they consider SU? [3] can we reel them in?

 

[Day2]

And we still weren't alright this year. We can't compete with about a third of this conference. Aren't you sick of losing to UNC and Louisville? We are the Washington Generals when we play those schools. Now teams below us are passing us.

We were the first team out and IMO deserved to get in over a few of those 11 seeds. We differ on the definition of alright.

The ACC is the best conference in college basketball. We don't have to win the league or even finish near the top to have a successful season. Conference hardware is nice, but I'm more interested in how we do in the tournament (yes, I know, we didn't make the tournament).

 

[GooseMutt]

It's getting tiresome. Everyone is an expert, and knows what the staff should have done, or be doing it seems.

The staff made some mistakes, sure. GMac isn't my top choice, sure. Things have been rough with the JB/Hop uncertainty, sure. We want depth, sure. Sure, I used sure surely too much.

Well we added Howard Washington at PG. With OB, Sidibe, and MM. To go along with Battle, and TT. Hopefully Frank, and PC improve. We do have two PGs, but since they don't seem to many to be Pearl, Sherm, or have the potential to become Scoop et cetera, then the sky is falling.

So many act like these kids are below us. Yes, we need a 3, and another guard. It shall come.

EA isn't the damn messiah. He seemingly doesn't want to come here, or is being pushed away by his camp. Time to move on to kids that want to be here. Like HW, MM, OB, Sidibe, TT. Our core for the future. Along with whoever wants to join up for 2017, whether it's for a year, or more. Then 2018, the talent is a plenty and we have a pretty nice program to recruit talent. I guess we're BC all of the sudden I hear.

Agree 100 percent Good post

 

[Cusesky8214]

I think it's safe to say we won't find another Andrew white this year regardless of who becomes available. Guy was killer for us...lacked on some other aspects of his game but thank God for his offense because we would have been in real trouble without him. Although maybe this year we will have a better defense and not need the offense as much? Doubtful I know..especially with the way our roster is right now I'm not sure where the rest of our scoring will come from but there's only one way to go for us on our defense and that's up...man we were terrible last year

 

[RF2044]

An offer would have put Ennis at risk. JB is on record stating this as a concern of his.

I don't doubt you, but I'd sure like to see JB's comments on record re: that topic.

It sure doesn't jibe with the staff actively pursuing a PG later that cycle / prior to signing day after Ennis committed

 

[Cusefan0307]

We were the first team out and IMO deserved to get in over a few of those 11 seeds. We differ on the definition of alright.

The ACC is the best conference in college basketball. We don't have to win the league or even finish near the top to have a successful season. Conference hardware is nice, but I'm more interested in how we do in the tournament (yes, I know, we didn't make the tournament).

Nobody here is happy with alright being a bubble team and not being ranked. We used to be in the top third of the conference contending for the top every year in our old league. Now a successful season is making the tournament even if we are a bubble team?

 

[RF2044]

You said "We - as in the coaching staff - screwed up bringing in Patterson over Morris. It was a flawed recruiting strategy"

Maybe you meant it differently than it came off. In any case, my larger point was that looking back retrospectively, it is really hard to know when a decision on a kid was made or when actions may have been taken that effectively made that decision. After all the staff may not have made up its mind; but by not returning a call, or prioritizing watching one kids' game over anothers, you may get yourself crossed off a kid's list and have the decision made for (against) you.

Okay -- thanks for the clarification, sounds like a semantics disconnect. You accused me of saying that we "selected Patterson over Morris." For the second time, I didn't say that we SELECTED Patterson over Morris. I'm saying that we didn't prioritize Morris accurately, miscalculated his potential, and eventually had to settle on bringing Patterson when we failed to fill the second backcourt spot that class. It was a flawed recruiting strategy to put all of our eggs in one basket, even if we landed Ennis. It continues to be a flawed strategy, as evidenced by how the staff handled Randolph / Green, who we were chasing to fill our two biggest roster holes that still remain unfilled.

The staff very easily could have made Morris a conditional offer, or told him that he needed to wait until after Ennis committed. They didn't -- they told him they weren't interested [same as some other players who will remain nameless for the purposes of not derailing this thread further].

I loved the detail in your response above, pfister -- but roster management and thinking ahead is an important job of the coaching staff. They haven't done a particularly good job of roster management since 2013, a situation that has become exacerbated in recent years with the scholarship reductions, and several players expected to be contributors washing out in recent seasons.

 

[Toga]

Yes, clearly we should have taken Morris over Buss, who IIRC was squeezed out of his scholarship by Indiana. Does sound like there may have been a lot of moving parts but boiled down we had the option of getting the better player and we went with the lesser player. Why? I don't know. Only thing I can think of is the HC didn't want to deal with roster issues of players closer to one another in talent, particularly given a history of playing 7.5. To me that has no logic other than one not wanting to deal with a potential problem. There may be another reason that's not jumping out at me.

So I won't argue the point that we missed on Monte Morris, but looking at the timeline we had a number of guys at the time that would have factored into our decision to pursue him or not.

Morris committed to Iowa State on June 27, 2012. So the decision made by the staff not to offer him was based on the roster makeup (both current players and committed prospects) at that time or earlier.

- As of June 27, 2012 MCW was coming off a season where he didn't get that much run and was behind Scoop and Waiters. I don't think it was clear at that time that we would have him only one additional year.
- Tyler Ennis didn't commit to SU until August 16, 2012. He didn't play for SU until 2013-14. At the time that the Morris decision was made, Ennis hadn't yet committed, but assuming we were confident we'd get him we didn't anticipate that he would have a leading role that year, much less be a one and done.
- Mike Gbinije announced his intent to transfer to Syracuse in late April 2012. At the time he was a SF who I believe we anticipated would also help us at SG. He obviously was not a PG at that time.
- At that time we had Cooney just coming off of his redshirt year. Morris' freshman year would have been Cooney's RS-sophomore year.

- The summer of 2012, I think it is fair to say that the staff anticipated having MCW and probably Ennis on the roster in Morris' first year or two.
- We also had several options at shooting guard (Cooney and Gbinije), who at the time may have projected as better shooters.

- While we may have ended up with Buss, he did not factor into the decision on Monte Morris. In fact, Buss was attending summer school courses on IU's campus the summer of 2012, fully intending to become a Hoosier. For some reason, IU elected not to admit him and essentially revoked his scholarship offer, he ended up at Brewster Academy for the 2012-13 season and came to SU as a freshman in 2013-14. I don't think Buss factored into SU's decision on Morris because I believe he was committed to Indiana at the time that the decision on Morris would have been made.

Back in 2011-12 season looking forward there were a heckuva a lot of moving pieces to consider and it may just be that we had other pieces that we thought would serve us better. It's easy to look back and say we absolutely should have offered Morris, but everything is clear in hindsight.

 

[NineOneSeven]

We were the first team out and IMO deserved to get in over a few of those 11 seeds. We differ on the definition of alright.

The ACC is the best conference in college basketball. We don't have to win the league or even finish near the top to have a successful season. Conference hardware is nice, but I'm more interested in how we do in the tournament (yes, I know, we didn't make the tournament).

But you keep harping on the fact you think we should have been in. The fact is we weren't. Even with white having a historically great year (it was), and Gillon literally singlehandedly winning us games. Imagine if those two were just average or not jedi's for certain second halves? Wow.

I'm not losing my mind over this like some as there is time and I can't control any of it, just want to keep commenting on your posts that keep mentioning "first team out".

 

[GooseMutt]

This is a wishy-washy hope, not a given. I have no doubt that SU will add another body or two. The question is whether they can play or not. What's "alright"? Bubble? 8-10 conference record? 12-6? 5-seed or higher? The first ACC tournament win?

We need to build a long term base with players that fit our system and want to be here. Our top players constantly leaving each year undermines our stability and we should go the Nova route if possible with returning players and more consistency. Pipe dream but we gotta play the cards dealt