Frank Howard

[EastCoast2]

I'm a little surprised at the lack of love shown to Frankie this offseason. Almost every projected lineup I've seen has Gillon/Battle plugged into the 1/2, and Howard is almost always discussed as a bench/role/situational player. I know Gillon averaged 13 points, but at this stage of his career as a grad transfer, he is what he is.

I really think Howard makes the SU freshman to sophomore leap (Dion/MCW/CJ/KJo) and surprises a lot of people, even posters on this board. This isn't to bash Gillon, I just think that Howard's offseason development, one year of experience in the 2-3 is going to propel him past Gillon on the depth chart. I see Gillon as more of the offensive spark off the bench, while Howard will be the true experienced 6'4 floor general. Gillon may be the Scoop Jardine of the 2010 team.

Flash back to the last couple weeks of the season and NCAA run. Howard was steadily improving every week, playing big minutes in the S16/E8/F4 games. Also keep in mind he's still recovering from an ACL - yes you can play 12 months later, but you're much closer to 100% after 18-24 months than 12 months. Another summer of pickup/strength training/working on his shooting, and I expect him to show big improvements come November.

Happy we got Gillon, but I think Howard is being sold short on here. Just my opinion, no inside info.

Discuss.

tl;dr I think Howard starts at PG

 

[Cusefaninvirginia]

I hope you're right. Its not unrealistic to think howard will be much improved this year, but I'm still guessing that gillon starts and howard gets significant minutes off the bench. It was good to hear devendorf et al positive reviews of his game this summer. They got it exactly right with their take on lydon and richardson last summer.

 

[realorange]

Does Gillon know the zone defense? End of discussion. Frank starts.

 

[Ryand877]

I believe Boeheim recently praised his improvement over the offseason. I wouldn't be surprised if he started. It's also fair to wonder if Gillon would have come here as a 5th year senior if he wasn't told he would start.

 

[ar inj]

I agree Frank starts and Gillon comes in for instant offense.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Does Gillon know the zone defense? End of discussion. Frank starts.

I'm not sure about this. We'll see how Gillon picks it up but Howard was really poor defensively in there when he played. Now there is only room to improve and he will with another year in the system but I'd be shocked if Gillon came in that much worse than what Frank was even at the end of season. He just refused to close out on shooters, gave up too much dribble penetration, etc. Obviously Frank will be better but Frank didn't know how to play zone as of March. Gillon won't be that far behind, imo.

 

[NYCorange]

I'm a little surprised at the lack of love shown to Frankie this offseason. Almost every projected lineup I've seen has Gillon/Battle plugged into the 1/2, and Howard is almost always discussed as a bench/role/situational player. I know Gillon averaged 13 points, but at this stage of his career as a grad transfer, he is what he is.

I really think Howard makes the SU freshman to sophomore leap (Dion/MCW/CJ/KJo) and surprises a lot of people, even posters on this board. This isn't to bash Gillon, I just think that Howard's offseason development, one year of experience in the 2-3 is going to propel him past Gillon on the depth chart. I see Gillon as more of the offensive spark off the bench, while Howard will be the true experienced 6'4 floor general. Gillon may be the Scoop Jardine of the 2010 team.

Flash back to the last couple weeks of the season and NCAA run. Howard was steadily improving every week, playing big minutes in the S16/E8/F4 games. Also keep in mind he's still recovering from an ACL - yes you can play 12 months later, but you're much closer to 100% after 18-24 months than 12 months. Another summer of pickup/strength training/working on his shooting, and I expect him to show big improvements come November.

Happy we got Gillon, but I think Howard is being sold short on here. Just my opinion, no inside info.

Discuss.

tl;dr I think Howard starts at PG

I'm totally on board with high expectations for Howard. That said, I think that Gillon's shooting gives him a clear advantage in the battle to play meaningful minutes. We have one playmaker who's not a great shooter (Battle). That said, White's addition eases that need for us somewhat, and if Howard develops a meaningful jump shot...

 

[Brooky03]

I won't say Howard will start at PG, but I will say I don't think Gillon has the job sewn up. Gillon is getting the love because he's the more experienced guard, by a lot, and a proven scorer, albeit at the midmajor level. Howard, on the other hand, is still just and underclassman who was an inefficient scorer in limited play last season. A lot of people also don't/didn't see Howard as a PG, though he's probably going to be the best distributor on the team.

Howard is the young, still relatively unknown quantity. Gillon is the known quantity.

As long as we see both players get a fair shake and plenty of playing time, as long as the earn it, I'll be happy. I agree that Howard is being left in the shadows a little more than he should be.

 

[MG44]

I agree, and also think Howard is going to "make the leap". On top of the Devendorf and Boeheim comments I remember Cooney and Gbinije saying during an ncaa tournament interview, that Howard was the best player on the team that nobody talked about. I think he's better tha.n most of us know, and going to get even better

 

[stuckinbig11]

I think JB will play whoever gives us the best chance to win. None of us know that answer yet; he probably does not know either.

 

[Trueblue25]

Think Howard will be our best facilitator of the offense. He has the best ability to find the open man that I've seen since MCW, I think he'll be a better passer than Ennis.

He's got the facilitating skill set where we don't need him to be a perimeter threat. He's long enough where if he can learn to drive and dish/finish or develop a floater he'll be a next great point guard.

All that being said, Gillon and Battle have things he doesn't necessarily have...

Gillon - experience/numbers (he is what he is, but he's already there)
Battle- Hype, possibly greater speed/quickness, better high volume scoring potential.

 

[iommi]

I agree that Howard will have a large role but I will also say with first-hand knowledge that Gillon considers himself a starter. Gillon isn't coming here to come off the bench but I remember I even said I thought Howard would start over him. I've since changed by tune. We shall see. I think JB starts the 5th year guy and Howard still plays a lot.

 

[AlaskaSU]

Advanced metrics for offense had Howard among the lowest of the low. Not saying that he does not have a high ceiling. We have had point guards that declined to shoot but they could shoot or even take over when appropriate, eg Z. Howard is not there. He is not starting, especially on a team that does not have a scoring center or a steady starting offensive power forward. You do not win unless you outscore the other team.

 

[Digger]

The fact that this is a legit debate is a prime example of exactly what makes next season so exciting.

I absolutely love Howard as a player but I think he'll probably come off the bench and still have a very significant role on the team.

 

[007]

I think JB will play whoever gives us the best chance to win. None of us know that answer yet; he probably does not know either.

Really good post.

It's fun to speculate about, but I always find it semi-amusing when some post with absolute certainty who will or will not start, play meaningful minutes, or at what position.

60% of the 16-17 roster will be playing their first minutes ever in an SU uniform and, more importantly, in JB's system (ok, PC has played in it in practice).

Probably the only thing we know with absolute certainty is in stuckingbig11's post.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I'm a huge fan of Howard and think also that he is being undersold. We actually talked about this in the aftermath of Gillon committing (that seems like years ago now). I still think there is very much "new toy" syndrome with Gillon. People are very excited about him. I honestly don't know what to expect, but I can't help but think the consensus expectations for him are about 30% too high. And the consensus expectations for Howard are about 30% too low.

 

[OttoMets]

Does Gillon know the zone defense? End of discussion. Frank starts.

I think this is airtight logic.

But I also think that Gillon didn't come here without being promised that he'll start. Defense be damned, it looks like Frank is the odd man out.

He should have the opportunity to create a role for himself, though. He was our best point guard last season and he could well be a valuable player this year and a two-year starter after that.

 

[RF2044]

I agree that Howard will have a large role but I will also say with first-hand knowledge that Gillon considers himself a starter. Gillon isn't coming here to come off the bench but I remember I even said I thought Howard would start over him. I've since changed by tune. We shall see. I think JB starts the 5th year guy and Howard still plays a lot.

Boom.

 

[RF2044]

I'm a huge fan of Howard and think also that he is being undersold. We actually talked about this in the aftermath of Gillon committing (that seems like years ago now). I still think there is very much "new toy" syndrome with Gillon. People are very excited about him. I honestly don't know what to expect, but I can't help but think the consensus expectations for him are about 30% too high. And the consensus expectations for Howard are about 30% too low.

30% too high? There were some posters who insisted that he was a stop gap, 10 minute per game guy when he committed, and that he was only brought in to provide emergency depth.

Gillon's offensive capabilities are exponentially better than Howard's, that will probably give him the edge in the minutes battle. That said, the best possible outcome for our team is for Howard to make the leap, and for the players to let it sort out on the practice court.

I want another final four run. The best way for that to happen is for us to have as many players maximizing their ability as possible.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

30% too high? There were some posters who insisted that he was a stop gap, 10 minute per game guy when he committed, and that he was only brought in to provide emergency depth.

Gillon's offensive capabilities are exponentially better than Howard's, that will probably give him the edge in the minutes battle. That said, the best possible outcome for our team is for Howard to make the leap, and for the players to let it sort out on the practice court.

I want another final four run.

Scoring capabilities are better. Offensive capabilities include doling out assists and Frank is still the best on the team at those. I'm with East coast on this one. Frank starts, is much more effective in zone, and makes the sophomore leap.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think Gillon starts because he is the fifth year guy and it probably looks bad if you don't start your fifth year transfer, but if we aren't starting Lydon there's no way Howard starts.

I do think the finishing lineup is open for competition though. It wouldn't surprise me to see Frankie finish games.

 

[RF2044]

Scoring capabilities are better. Offensive capabilities include doling out assists and Frank is still the best on the team at those. I'm with East coast on this one. Frank starts, is much more effective in zone, and makes the sophomore leap.

Offensive capabilities also include the ability to break people down off the dribble and set up teammates. Both of which Gillon excels at. Have you seen him play?

He isn't sitting. Frank was awful in the zone last year, BTW.

 

[realorange]

I think this is airtight logic.

But I also think that Gillon didn't come here without being promised that he'll start. Defense be damned, it looks like Frank is the odd man out.

He should have the opportunity to create a role for himself, though. He was our best point guard last season and he could well be a valuable player this year and a two-year starter after that.

Sound logic on your part.
But I doubt JB would do no more than tell Gillon that if he could show he should start he would.
JB tends to favor players he likes and he has said that he likes Frank a lot.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Love me some Frank Howard.

 

[JOC44]

I think Gillon starts because he is the fifth year guy and it probably looks bad if you don't start your fifth year transfer.

This. And it's particularly true given that we almost certainly will be looking to dip back into the 5th year transfer market next summer in light of our expected departures.