Gmac

[Alsacs]

But it gives everyone a chance to take a shot at Gmac...

Who cares about a legit shot. This is a results business. We could have Michael Graham as an assistant coach and if he was performing I wouldn't care.

GMac needs a win on a priority recruit this is year 5 for GMac as an assistant. Who cares about taking a shot.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I guess my point is where I disagree with the OP is this is on the head man and not the assistant.

We blew off 2 other top 75 point guards because the head man was determined to wait for Quade to decide.

Once he decided there was nobody left. I think using Gmac as a scapegoat ignores the fact our strategy stunk this cycle.

Who ultimately decides the strategy?

I think everyone is on board with the idea that strategically things weren't handled great with this class.

How we handle our business and the results we get in 2018 looms large.

 

[jordoo]

Calling GMac an employee is why some don't give him heat in his performance.

Hopkins had the great relationship with Neumann-Goretti HC and is on the staff and you give the keys to newer coach? JB and Hop something doesn't smell right there just based on this.

I don't care GMac got a silent verbal. Michigan got a verbal from Tyus Battle.

GMac needs a legit win on a priority recruit.

OK, so the decision was made by a company to send new guy to close the deal even when old guy who has closed the deal there before is available. How is that new guys fault? Its mind boggling to me. The state of the program is on JB's shoulders, always has been and always will be till he hangs them up.

We just suffered through him sort of attempting to hang them up but realizing he didn't want to (while have ing ship and recruiting restrictions). The backcourt recruiting for 2017 was botched big time because of it. The rest of the class is great. JB is back in the saddle for 218-2021 and our recruiting will solidify. Look at the net we have cast for 2018 and are starting to for 2019. JB has a pretty good track record I think we can give him a pass on this trying to pass the ball off nicely to Hopkins thing.

 

[Alsacs]

I guess my point is where I disagree with the OP is this is on the head man and not the assistant.

We blew off 2 other top 75 point guards because the head man was determined to wait for Quade to decide.

Once he decided there was nobody left. I think using Gmac as a scapegoat ignores the fact our strategy stunk this cycle.

Who ultimately decides the strategy?

Okay I don't disagree with you.
Why JB put GMac on these priority recruits over Hopkins is the problem.

JB should be getting heat for that. He makes the decision to wait and then uses his least experienced assistant on these coaches to build them up over his top guy.

With that said GMac needs to stop being on these must have guys and use his best

 

[Ryand877]

GMac is an employee. There are things he has no say in. Green verballed to him but that doesn't mean that Gerry didn't suspect that something was funky in Philly long before that. Its still his job to keep recruiting. That was what he was assigned to do.

I don't think we should have stopped recruiting Green. Where we messed up is when the loyalty was not reciprocated (after months), not looking at other options until it was too late. Back to the putting all your eggs in one basket deal.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Okay I don't disagree with you.
Why JB put GMac on these priority recruits over Hopkins is the problem.

JB should be getting heat for that. He makes the decision to wait and then uses his least experienced assistant on these coaches to build them up over his top guy.

With that said GMac needs to stop being on these must have guys and use his best

Yeah, JB is ultimately responsible.

But based on the history we've seen, when I find out we're recruiting somebody we seem to really like I don't have a whole lot of confidence in how things will end up if GMac is the lead recruiter. Maybe (probably) I'm just a jerk.

 

[Ward]

He was also the lead recruiter for Brandon Randolph and he was set to come here until things out of Gmac's hands happened on the visit to sway him otherwise.

Yea, I'm aware of the issue on his visit and that was a tough break for GMac and the program overall for multiple reasons. This may be callous and not that fair but I overall don't really put much time in or care about the if this or if that game. Every coach at every program deals with variables outside of their control when trying to get kids to commit to their program.

 

[Alsacs]

OK, so the decision was made by a company to send new guy to close the deal even when old guy who has closed the deal there before is available. How is that new guys fault? Its mind boggling to me. The state of the program is on JB's shoulders, always has been and always will be till he hangs them up.

We just suffered through him sort of attempting to hang them up but realizing he didn't want to (while have ing ship and recruiting restrictions). The backcourt recruiting for 2017 was botched big time because of it. The rest of the class is great. JB is back in the saddle for 218-2021 and our recruiting will solidify. Look at the net we have cast for 2018 and are starting to for 2019. JB has a pretty good track record I think we can give him a pass on this trying to pass the ball off nicely to Hopkins thing.

The old guy(Hop) was taking over supposedly. If That doesn't send off alarm bells the HCIW wasn't being listened too nothing will and the roster depth was deteriorating as well.

The new guy(GMac)needs wins and just because he lost to the big dogs doesn't mitigate it all off the guy.

Tucker is different than Green. GMac hasn't taken heat for Tucker we all get that loss and it's on Tucker getting a Duke offer. If GMac won't standup to JB and side with Hopkins that means he agreed with JB on going all in for Green.

We have learned is that the new HCIWwanted to do wasn't listened too. Why was JB who wasn't doing the work anyway cutting the legs off his successor while the HC was in Brazil?

JB gets his share of the frustration but GMac get his as well.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Okay I don't disagree with you.
Why JB put GMac on these priority recruits over Hopkins is the problem.

JB should be getting heat for that. He makes the decision to wait and then uses his least experienced assistant on these coaches to build them up over his top guy.

With that said GMac needs to stop being on these must have guys and use his best

Not sure what was going on with Hopkins. People have their assumptions.

But to take Gmac off Swider now when he has the relationship is a worse strategy than having him recruiting in the first place.

 

[GooseMutt]

I don't get how these misses are on GMac or how the fan base can perceive that they are. You do not have to be an insider or anything to know what happened with the 2017 class. We had plan A at the Pg and the SG spots. Things changed, UK jumped in, Frank threw a haymaker, Knox went to UK and a bunch of other stuff happened in between none of which Gerry could control.

Is it Gmac or program circumstances that undermined recent recruiting efforts or lack thereof

 

[Alsacs]

Not sure what was going on with Hopkins. People have their assumptions.

But to take Gmac off Swider now when he has the relationship is a worse strategy than having him recruiting in the first place.

If JB took over from Gmac it would probably help.

Hell if it takes GMac being involved to get JB more involved good.

 

[jordoo]

The old guy was taking over supposedly. That doesn't send off alarms if the HCIW wasn't being listened too and the roster depth was deteriorating.

The new guy needs wins and just because he lost to the big dogs doesn't mitigate it all off the guy.

Tucker is different than Green. GMac hasn't taken heat for Tucker we all get that loss and it's on Tucker getting a Duke offer. If GMac won't standup to JB and side with Hopkins that means he agreed with JB on going all in for Green.

We have learned that isn't what the new HC wanted to do. Why was JB who wasn't doing the work anyway cutting the legs off his successor while the HC was in Brazil?

JB gets his share of the frustration but GMac get his as well.

So you are saying Gerry never said "hey coach I think Green is trolling us looking for something else". Gerry was told to recruit this kid, he did but you act like Gerry had no idea what was going on and totally buffooned the recruitment which is inaccurate. We don't know the communications behind the scenes with the coaching staff. That is why in the end its on the head man.

 

[jordoo]

Ill say it again "ugh this thread!" What a headache.

 

[Alsacs]

So you are saying Gerry never said "hey coach I think Green is trolling us looking for something else". Gerry was told to recruit this kid, he did but you act like Gerry had no idea what was going on and totally buffooned the recruitment which is inaccurate. We don't know the communications behind the scenes with the coaching staff. That is why in the end its on the head man.

What I am saying is GMac agreed with JB to go all in for Green over agreeing with Hopkins who didn't want to wait and risk what happened to happen.

I would say since Jake said the assistants handled recruiting the idea Hopkins had a better read than JB makes sense.

The fact JB wouldn't listen to Hopkins his successor and way better recruiter screams something was wrong.

Again this is year 5 for GMac when does he have to produce?

 

[jordoo]

Is it Gmac or program circumstances that undermined recent recruiting efforts or lack thereof

It is not Gmac. Only Calipari could have gotten Green away from SU the last week of recruitment and he did but even he needed help. Tucker was salivating for Duke for 2 years and he finally got it. Randolf would have probably committed on his visit if we didn't suffer a self inflicted wound from within that drove him away. It almost seems like some posters are blaming Gerry for getting handed loosing lottery tickets. Gerry didn't decide not to keep recruiting the other guys at these positions.

 

[jordoo]

Again this is year 5 for GMac when does he have to produce?

Moyer.

Do you think that JB, Hop or Red would have landed us Green, Randolf or Tucker? That is the real question. Lets cut the BS since you want to play the blame game. Which one of our other coaches lands any of those three players?

 

[GooseMutt]

It is not Gmac. Only Calipari could have gotten Green away from SU the last week of recruitment and he did but even he needed help. Tucker was salivating for Duke for 2 years and he finally got it. Randolf would have probably committed on his visit if we didn't suffer a self inflicted wound from within that drove him away. It almost seems like some posters are blaming Gerry for getting handed loosing lottery tickets. Gerry didn't decide not to keep recruiting the other guys at these positions.

Jordoo, in your opinion do you believe we have any locks in the 2018 class right now. There is so much talent and we have so many offers out what are realistic expectations?

 

[Cusefan0307]

What I am saying is GMac agreed with JB to go all in for Green over agreeing with Hopkins who didn't want to wait and risk what happened to happen.

I would say since Jake said the assistants handled recruiting the idea Hopkins had a better read than JB makes sense.

The fact JB wouldn't listen to Hopkins his successor and way better recruiter screams something was wrong.

Again this is year 5 for GMac when does he have to produce?

Don't think Gerry was on the trail a ton until the past 2 years when Hop started to take a backseat.

I will say there is a negative if Gerry were to leave. These relationships he is starting to build could benefit another program where he is hired.

All I am asking is we start offering more guys earlier so we aren't scrambling for scraps late.

 

[JLine]

What I am saying is GMac agreed with JB to go all in for Green over agreeing with Hopkins who didn't want to wait and risk what happened to happen.

I would say since Jake said the assistants handled recruiting the idea Hopkins had a better read than JB makes sense.

The fact JB wouldn't listen to Hopkins his successor and way better recruiter screams something was wrong.

Again this is year 5 for GMac when does he have to produce?

Never for many, and many of us think he isn't up to the job. JB is in the never group, unfortunately.

Oh yeah, he got Moyer. A better recruiter than him. Matt should be paid.

 

[Alsacs]

Moyer.

Do you think that JB, Hop or Red would have landed us Green, Randolf or Tucker? That is the real question. Lets cut the BS since you want to play the blame game. Which one of our other coaches lands any of those three players?

If we listened to Hop we would have other top 75 PGs.

Randolph was self inflicted.

Going all-in for Green and losing means the decision gets graded on a stricter scale.

Tucker no blame for GMac. I will say if we stayed on the kid for 6 months where we went silent we could have possibly gotten Tucker to sign earlier.


GMac gets a pass because of Duke/Kentucky. When does he lose the pass?

 

[jordoo]

Jordoo, in your opinion do you believe we have any locks in the 2018 class right now. There is so much talent and we have so many offers out what are realistic expectations?

Buddy, LOL. No too early no locks IMO. Have to finish the 2017 class, clear the dead period and then see who gets prioritized and how they react. I think we will do well in 2018 but I also feel that its not as important a class as many others think. We set a great foundation with the 17 class. IMO we just need to add parts where needed in 18, 19

 

[HoustonCuse]

Calling GMac an employee is why some don't give him heat in his performance.

Hopkins had the great relationship with Neumann-Goretti HC and is on the staff and you give the keys to newer coach? JB and Hop something doesn't smell right there just based on this.

I don't care GMac got a silent verbal. Michigan got a verbal from Tyus Battle.

GMac needs a legit win on a priority recruit.

First: I don't think you are wrong about this, because while I understand developing the new guy, there was also the fact that we did need to close on Green in particular (N-G). The decision to have Gerry lead this may have stemmed from the idea that it wasn't going to be a brutal recruitment against a powerhouse. We had no idea we'd be going up against Kentucky when it all started and I think the premise was that Green was a strong SU lean at the beginning. Add to that the fact that Hopkins was going to be unavailable due to US Basketball commitments all summer and I can see why Gerry got the call there. In hindsight, it may or may not have been a poor decision because there is not promise that Hop would have beat out Calipari either. I think what Hop might have been able to do was to get the commitment before Calipari even got his hooks into Green. We'll never know.

So then the question becomes: how smart was it for JB to invest both his own time and Hopkins' time into USA Basketball? Again in hindsight, it hurt the SU program in the short term because of their absence during crucial times. I'm sure the rationale was that it would substantively aid Hopkin's in two ways: street cred for recruiting and future coaching abilities. This was a great developmental opportunity for our future head coach. In that light, it was a good move, but since he left, clearly we got no benefit from it.

As to internal strife: I agree there must have been something very off about the Hopkins/Boeheim relationship or vision for the future. Hopkins leaving the way he did cannot be interpreted any other way. It was a very badly botched exercise in many ways. That, and not recruiting strategy, is the biggest flub that has happened in my opinion.

 

[jordoo]

All I am asking is we start offering more guys earlier so we aren't scrambling for scraps late.

This has started to happen in 2018 and you are right it needed to.

 

[Gotothehole]

You can't answer your own questions in paragraph 2?

Do you really believe that? You think Troy would have let these kids get away. At this point don't know how anyone can have confidence in Gerry

 

[jordoo]

If we listened to Hop we would have other top 75 PGs.

Randolph was self inflicted.

Going all-in for Green and losing means the decision gets graded on a stricter scale.

Tucker no blame for GMac. I will say if we stayed on the kid for 6 months where we went silent we could have possibly gotten Tucker to sign earlier.


GMac gets a pass because of Duke/Kentucky. When does he lose the pass?

Again who of the other coaches lands any of those three given the circumstances. I have said a bunch of time we should have moved on from Green but that was not Gerry's decision or Hop's so it seems. Answer the question are you blaming Gerry for losing any of those three recruits?