Going to miss Jimmy when he is gone

[bpo57]

We wouldn’t pay a long time assistant only 1 million plus incentives.
Mike Hopkins was making more 1 million the last few years while being HCIW.
JB took a hometown discount but still has made 2+ million a year.

The next HC will make 2-2.5 minimum probably 3 million.

So if SU hires one of the assistants you think he'll be paid more than JB? And what kind of leverage you think that assistant would have on SU? I'll give you the answer- little to none. They'd do cartwheels to get that job offer. No way on earth one of the assistants gets paid that kind of coin.

 

[Alsacs]

So if SU hires one of the assistants you think he'll be paid more than JB? And what kind of leverage you think that assistant would have on SU? I'll give you the answer- little to none. They'd do cartwheels to get that job offer. No way on earth one of the assistants gets paid that kind of coin.

Hop was getting paid HC lite money.

His agency CAA wasn’t giving SU a hometown discount.

We are going to pay the next HC.

 

[two3zone]

Why?
What has he shown to be given the keys to the job?

I give GMac credit for getting Sidibe it helps alienate worrying over recruiting but the guy should not get a top 10-15 job just because he played here.

If he wants the job find a HC job and prove you can do it. JB will be gone in 4-5 years and if he proves it then fine. If he stays on the bench the next 4-5 years he better not be the next HC.

Just because he's gotten Sidibe and not much else to date doesn't make me warm and fuzzy about his recruiting chops.

 

[rrlbees]

Just because he's gotten Sidibe and not much else to date doesn't make me warm and fuzzy about his recruiting chops.

Off the top of my head, Sidibe, Moyer, Goodine. Also the lead recruiter of several other targets we’re on.

 

[two3zone]

Off the top of my head, Sidibe, Moyer, Goodine. Also the lead recruiter of several other targets we’re on.

Time shall tell.

 

[bballbeadle]

James Arthur Boeheim is Central New York. He was born here, raised here, went to college here, played at SU and coached the remainder of his life here up to now. He is part of the fabric of who we all are that have experienced, if not the same path, a very similar path. CNY is in our DNA and JAB is in there too. When the time comes, through whatever mechanism, it will be like extracting a limb from our body. It can never be replaced. It will not be a “breath of fresh air” as some may say. It will be saying fair well to a member of our family. The heart that Jim has for this region and it’s people cannot be overstated. Who his age isn’t a little curmudgeonly? Love him while he remains because whoever takes the reigns will have a LOT of work to do to win the hearts of the community and fan base. Just winning won’t do both.

WOW.

 

[bpo57]

Hop was getting paid HC lite money.

His agency CAA wasn’t giving SU a hometown discount.

We are going to pay the next HC.

I'm not sure you're seeing the wide chasm between what SU will have to pay a name brand and what they can get away with paying one of the assistants as a new head coach. That gap will be so wide that it will be very tempting to go the assistant route. Where is the competition for Autry/GMac's services that SU would end up paying these guys in their 1st year as a HC more than what JB ever made? Not. Gonna. Happen.

 

[Alsacs]

I'm not sure you're seeing the wide chasm between what SU will have to pay a name brand and what they can get away with paying one of the assistants as a new head coach. That gap will be so wide that it will be very tempting to go the assistant route. Where is the competition for Autry/GMac's services that SU would end up paying these guys in their 1st year as a HC more than what JB ever made? Not. Gonna. Happen.

You don’t realize Hop was paid really good money already and had a deal that was going to pay him more than JB.

Hop’s agents weren’t giving SU a hometown discount as they shouldn’t.

The next HC will make more than JB if JB only makes 2.15 million. I think he makes more.

 

[CuseCPT]

The board needs to stay out of The Who should be next coach for Syracuse basketball business. Ya all have zero clue what you’re talking about.

If we took board consensus we would have below average Shaka Smart here right now.

Our board know it alls complained about Hopkins so much because he was viewed as JB lite 2.0 they helped run him across the country.

Nobody on this board is responsible for Hopkins leaving. Unless Townie is, in fact, JB.

 

[tbonezone]

i loved my grandpa too. loved him so much that when it was time i took away his snow shovel and car keys.
growing old is a bitch.

 

[bpo57]

You don’t realize Hop was paid really good money already and had a deal that was going to pay him more than JB.

Hop’s agents weren’t giving SU a hometown discount as they shouldn’t.

The next HC will make more than JB if JB only makes 2.15 million. I think he makes more.

Hopkins signed a six year deal with UW and he's getting paid $1.8 million in his first year with $100K raises. You think SU will pay one of the assistants $2.5 million?

Btw can you link some information that shows what Hopkins was paid at SU? I don't see anything online.

 

[CuseCPT]

I know I've probably picked up a reputation as one of the "haters" but I actually will miss JB when he's gone. He put Syracuse on the map. He has perfected a defense that has changed basketball at the collegiate and international levels. He is an NCAA and an Olympic champion. I'll give credit where credit is due, this team has already won 2 more games than I predicted in the Iggys thread.

With all that said, he is not and should not be above criticism. I am frustrated because he seems to doubling down on his habits that I dislike the most.
1)The Zone. Despite being this board's favorite straw man, I don't think I've ever seen anyone suggest we should play all, or even mostly M2M. What I would like to see, is when teams are comfortable and scoring easily against the zone, we switch to M2M for a couple series. Force the other team to make different decisions, to try to disrupt their flow. In some ways I think Boeheim has become a prisoner of his own creation. I honestly feel like he would view switching to M2M as a surrender, and admission that his creation is not perfect.
2)The Short Bench. I get it, this year is extreme but even when he has options, he seems to prefer to use the bench as a penalty box. I can't imagine a better way to stifle a players development and confidence than to yank them immediately every time they make a mistake. I understand why he does it. His thought pattern seems to be that your best % to win a particular game is to maximize the PT of your best players. But I think this way of thinking exposes guys to injury, creates discontent which results in guys leaving, and potentially sacrifices success later in the season for the sake of going all out to beat UConn in December or Miami in January.
3) Curmudgeon/Media Issues. I won't get into his attitude towards the media. Some people really enjoy reporters getting yelled at, quite a few apparently. What's inexcusable is making comments about players and families to the press. "Praise publicly, admonish privately" is good maxim for leaders and one that I would like to see him adopt.

It seems for the past few years, we have an awful lot of surprise departures and we never catch a break on the stay/go early wave. Can't help but wonder if points 2 and 3 are related.

 

[Townie72]

I know I've probably picked up a reputation as one of the "haters" but I actually will miss JB when he's gone. He put Syracuse on the map. He has perfected a defense that has changed basketball at the collegiate and international levels. He is an NCAA and an Olympic champion. I'll give credit where credit is due, this team has already won 2 more games than I predicted in the Iggys thread.

With all that said, he is not and should not be above criticism. I am frustrated because he seems to doubling down on his habits that I dislike the most.
1)The Zone. Despite being this board's favorite straw man, I don't think I've ever seen anyone suggest we should play all, or even mostly M2M. What I would like to see, is when teams are comfortable and scoring easily against the zone, we switch to M2M for a couple series. Force the other team to make different decisions, to try to disrupt their flow. In some ways I think Boeheim has become a prisoner of his own creation. I honestly feel like he would view switching to M2M as a surrender, and admission that his creation is not perfect.
2)The Short Bench. I get it, this year is extreme but even when he has options, he seems to prefer to use the bench as a penalty box. I can't imagine a better way to stifle a players development and confidence than to yank them immediately every time they make a mistake. I understand why he does it. His thought pattern seems to be that your best % to win a particular game is to maximize the PT of your best players. But I think this way of thinking exposes guys to injury, creates discontent which results in guys leaving, and potentially sacrifices success later in the season for the sake of going all out to beat UConn in December or Miami in January.
3) Curmudgeon/Media Issues. I won't get into his attitude towards the media. Some people really enjoy reporters getting yelled at, quite a few apparently. What's inexcusable is making comments about players and families to the press. "Praise publicly, admonish privately" is good maxim for leaders and one that I would like to see him adopt.

It seems for the past few years, we have an awful lot of surprise departures and we never catch a break on the stay/go early wave. Can't help but wonder if points 2 and 3 are related.

Well he certainly isn’t above criticism by you as all that attests.

 

[bpo57]

Well he certainly isn’t above criticism by you as all that attests.

When you're a public figure - politician, athlete, coach, entertainer, etc. - it comes with the territory. As long as it's done respectfully (clearly the case with CuseCPT) I don't see what's the big deal. JB is a big boy - he can handle it. Not like he's ever bashful about criticizing players, refs, media etc.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Haven’t read the whole thread so i don’t know if it’s been covered, but why do folks assume that one of the “SU Family”’assistant coaches sitting on the bench, won’t get first crack at JB’s throne when he leaves?
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again- that’s gonna be an Aawkward transition having to decide which one takes the reigns, or even worse, bringing in someone from outside who’ll clean house and start fresh.
History has shown these transitions from a HOF coach rarely go well. We should be prepared for much turmoil once the old codger departs!

 

[SoBeCuse]

I know I've probably picked up a reputation as one of the "haters" but I actually will miss JB when he's gone. He put Syracuse on the map. He has perfected a defense that has changed basketball at the collegiate and international levels. He is an NCAA and an Olympic champion. I'll give credit where credit is due, this team has already won 2 more games than I predicted in the Iggys thread.

With all that said, he is not and should not be above criticism. I am frustrated because he seems to doubling down on his habits that I dislike the most.
1)The Zone. Despite being this board's favorite straw man, I don't think I've ever seen anyone suggest we should play all, or even mostly M2M. What I would like to see, is when teams are comfortable and scoring easily against the zone, we switch to M2M for a couple series. Force the other team to make different decisions, to try to disrupt their flow. In some ways I think Boeheim has become a prisoner of his own creation. I honestly feel like he would view switching to M2M as a surrender, and admission that his creation is not perfect.
2)The Short Bench. I get it, this year is extreme but even when he has options, he seems to prefer to use the bench as a penalty box. I can't imagine a better way to stifle a players development and confidence than to yank them immediately every time they make a mistake. I understand why he does it. His thought pattern seems to be that your best % to win a particular game is to maximize the PT of your best players. But I think this way of thinking exposes guys to injury, creates discontent which results in guys leaving, and potentially sacrifices success later in the season for the sake of going all out to beat UConn in December or Miami in January.
3) Curmudgeon/Media Issues. I won't get into his attitude towards the media. Some people really enjoy reporters getting yelled at, quite a few apparently. What's inexcusable is making comments about players and families to the press. "Praise publicly, admonish privately" is good maxim for leaders and one that I would like to see him adopt.

It seems for the past few years, we have an awful lot of surprise departures and we never catch a break on the stay/go early wave. Can't help but wonder if points 2 and 3 are related.

Good post. Very fair and well expressed.

 

[Townie72]

When you're a public figure - politician, athlete, coach, entertainer, etc. - it comes with the territory. As long as it's done respectfully (clearly the case with CuseCPT) I don't see what's the big deal. JB is a big boy - he can handle it. Not like he's ever bashful about criticizing players, refs, media etc.

Most of this criticism comes when the usual suspects on here, who deal with frustration poorly. They bloviate about how JB let them down or that they have a better idea on how to do things.

They are doing what they are doing because they can’t do what JB can do.

 

[orangeman410]

JB will coach 4 more years unless there are any unforseen circumstances (health, ncaa violations, etc.) Guess who will have 1 year left on his contract and only a $500,000 buyout, and will have 5 years of head coaching experience that everyone was worried about? Not saying it is going to happen, but you can bet he will be a top candidate if there is mutual interest...

 

[NKR1978]

JB ain't john wooden. he's got 1 title in 40+ years which ties him with kevin ollie and a host of others.

You must think Rollie, Carnesecca, Keady, Cremins, John Chaney, Gary Williams, Majerus, Prosser, Bo Ryan, Mark Few and Tom Davis are the dregs of coaching then. Somehow Louie has been sainted and all he has is one Final Four to show for it? Gary Williams coached forever and “all” he got was one title and another Final Four.

 

[Alsacs]

Most of this criticism comes when the usual suspects on here, who deal with frustration poorly. They bloviate about how JB let them down or that they have a better idea on how to do things.

They are doing what they are doing because they can’t do what JB can do.

Just stop while you are behind.

 

[teamco]

Jim Boeheim is a thread that ties my life together. My first year at Cuse was Boeheim's first year as its head coach.
I used to go on dates to Manely Field House with the girl I ultimately married, jump-cut to us celebrating our 36th year of marriage this year. He was the coach when my wife gave birth to our children; and they made their way through elementary, middle and high school, as well as college; as careers took off; child got married; parents passed away; during periods of serious illness and then recovery . . . during all of that I could always draw comfort knowing I could turn on the TV and watch a typically top 20 rated Syracuse team, with you know who sitting in the coaches seat.

There is something remarkable about the constancy, and record of excellence, of Jim Boeheim, especially given it was achieved during a period when change became not just more rapid, but seemed almost out of control. Even as the program has entered a bit of a fallow period, I remain happy knowing when I again turn on the TV Wednesday, to watch us play North Carolina, the same guy who was coaching when I was kid is still behind the bench . . . and should still receive the benefit of the doubt.

Sentimental? Sure. But I wouldn't let that rule the day if I thought it was no longer withn Boeheim's capability to rebuild the program and take the team on some deep runs in the immediate future. Just saying . . .

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Syracuse will be fine as long as they hire the right guy.

And therein lies the rub.

What makes you think Wildhack et al. are going to have some type of edge when it comes to choosing the "right" guy.

Indiana has been looking for the right guy for almost two decades. For every Villanova, there is a Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence, BC, UConn etc... a lot more "wrong guys" then "right guys".

Even those with the financial wherewithal to hire anyone they want, which we most certainly do not have, can hire the wrong guy and suffer the consequences. They, however, can afford to keep trying until they get it right. Can we?

What makes you so confident that finding the right guy, let alone being able to pay him, is not going to be problem?

 

[HakAttack]

Jim Boeheim is a thread that ties my life together. My first year at Cuse was Boeheim's first year as its head coach.
I used to go on dates to Manely Field House with the girl I ultimately married, jump-cut to us celebrating our 36th year of marriage this year. He was the coach when my wife gave birth to our children; and they made their way through elementary, middle and high school, as well as college; as careers took off; child got married; parents passed away; during periods of serious illness and then recovery . . . during all of that I could always draw comfort knowing I could turn on the TV and watch a typically top 20 rated Syracuse team, with you know who sitting in the coaches seat.

There is something remarkable about the constancy, and record of excellence, of Jim Boeheim, especially given it was achieved during a period when change became not just more rapid, but seemed almost out of control. Even as the program has entered a bit of a fallow period, I remain happy knowing when I again turn on the TV Wednesday, to watch us play North Carolina, the same guy who was coaching when I was kid is still behind the bench . . . and should still receive the benefit of the doubt.

Sentimental? Sure. But I wouldn't let that rule the day if I thought it was no longer withn Boeheim's capability to rebuild the program and take the team on some deep runs in the immediate future. Just saying . . .

Fantastic post.

 

[Cusefan0307]

And therein lies the rub.

What makes you think Wildhack et al. are going to have some type of edge when it comes to choosing the "right" guy.

Indiana has been looking for the right guy for almost two decades. For every Villanova, there is a Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence, BC, UConn etc... a lot more "wrong guys" then "right guys".

Even those with the financial wherewithal to hire anyone they want, which we most certainly do not have, can hire the wrong guy and suffer the consequences. They, however, can afford to keep trying until they get it right. Can we?

What makes you so confident that finding the right guy, let alone being able to pay him, is not going to be problem?

I'm sure you will rip me because that's you M.O. whenever you disagree with me, but you literally just compared us to St. Johns, Providence, BC, and Seton Hall. Not to mention UConn is at a strategic disadvantage because of their garbage conference.

 

[Alsacs]

And therein lies the rub.

What makes you think Wildhack et al. are going to have some type of edge when it comes to choosing the "right" guy.

Indiana has been looking for the right guy for almost two decades. For every Villanova, there is a Georgetown, St. John's, Seton Hall, Providence, BC, UConn etc... a lot more "wrong guys" then "right guys".

Even those with the financial wherewithal to hire anyone they want, which we most certainly do not have, can hire the wrong guy and suffer the consequences. They, however, can afford to keep trying until they get it right. Can we?

What makes you so confident that finding the right guy, let alone being able to pay him, is not going to be problem?

I think our fanbase, Dome, location to NYC and recruiting hotbeds will make the job Desirable enough that we will get a good coach.

The Old Big East schools aren’t a good comp as football is a huge factor in SU’s favor the P5 are becoming more powerful and with the way the NCAA is headed a split isn’t out of realm of possibility.

I think we will find a good HC. I acknowledge JB is an alltime great and his replacement won’t be as good but SU BB will be fine IMO. Townie acts like only JB can get it done.