Great to start with a W. Thoughts going forward. | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

Great to start with a W. Thoughts going forward.

It’s obvious the line struggled. Some of yall make it seem like the QB’s had exactly 1 second to throw on every snap. Lol. Line play was not good but Dino didn’t bring in a transfer for no reason. That staff evaluates every part of the position.
There were an incalculable number of times in the last two years when the DL was in the backfield as quickly as TD dropped back. You get crunched like that a few times, and you will expect the pocket to never be there.
 
So… begs the question are our snap counts too easy for other teams to read/anticipate?
 
I'm taking Dinos comments about Tommy not having happy feet, as a very good sign. At a minimum, more confidence.

Either, the line is giving more time on average, and he trusts them to do that.

Or, He could be trusting his WRs more.

Or. Like every player, he busted his arse in all of the player lead practices , to improve the areas he needed work on.

I'll go with the last one. If the 1st and 2cnd one are also true? Even better.
Completely different situation when you have opposing players coming after you.
Also I would take everything DB said with a grain of salt concerning qbs at this point. Never gives anything away.
 
That's why I said, that after 4 years, the mental part is not going to change. Tommy is a great young man, and wonderful ambassador for the school. He doesn't have the package mentally and physically to run this offense.
I don't think it's always true. Sometimes it takes guys longer for it to click, sometimes it never clicks. I hope it clicks for Tommy next year.
 
Completely different situation when you have opposing players coming after you.
Also I would take everything DB said with a grain of salt concerning qbs at this point. Never gives anything away.
We'll see. Knowing he's fixed some things in practice is a good start.

I'm of the mindset that Tommy will EARN the bulk of the reps. I still think we see Garrett a bit, to keep the def off balance. (Or if WRs or Oline struggles-and for transfer purposes)


IF some of those things are fixed, I think we get to see Tommy's arm talent, this year. I think we all agree, he has the arm talent.(he does) That's my hope, anyways. I expect an improved line, run game, and an improved Tommy Devito-in the pocket.

Schraeder has some catching up to do. To money's point, its going to take some time if we're going to see Schrader in an extended role. (Depending on his summer). Its going to have to get UGLY early, for Schraeder to earn a ton of reps, early. NONE of us want Ugly. Especially, early, because we need to win those 1st 4 games, and its NOT just the QB.

I'm team Devito on this. I want to see that arm WORK. He knows the deal. You are a crazy person if you don't think he's trying to improve himself.

I'm hoping to see the 2 deep in the 1st half of Ohio. Maybe I'm crazy?, but this is a fan forum. (Yes. I'm crazy. Lol)

We need Devito to carry us early. I think he does. Great if Schraeder offers a compliment. I expect a heck of a lot more fun this year, than the last 2...
 
There were an incalculable number of times in the last two years when the DL was in the backfield as quickly as TD dropped back. You get crunched like that a few times, and you will expect the pocket to never be there.
Yeah. Teams got pressure on us easy and frequent but there was times when TD had time also. Evaluate those plays. Thats what I do.
 
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We'll see. Knowing he's fixed some things in practice is a good start.

I'm of the mindset that Tommy will EARN the bulk of the reps. I still think we see Garrett a bit, to keep the def off balance. (Or if WRs or Oline struggles-and for transfer purposes)


IF some of those things are fixed, I think we get to see Tommy's arm talent, this year. I think we all agree, he has the arm talent.(he does) That's my hope, anyways. I expect an improved line, run game, and an improved Tommy Devito-in the pocket.

Schraeder has some catching up to do. To money's point, its going to take some time if we're going to see Schrader in an extended role. (Depending on his summer). Its going to have to get UGLY early, for Schraeder to earn a ton of reps, early. NONE of us want Ugly. Especially, early, because we need to win those 1st 4 games, and its NOT just the QB.

I'm team Devito on this. I want to see that arm WORK. He knows the deal. You are a crazy person if you don't think he's trying to improve himself.

I'm hoping to see the 2 deep in the 1st half of Ohio. Maybe I'm crazy?, but this is a fan forum. (Yes. I'm crazy. Lol)

We need Devito to carry us early. I think he does. Great if Schraeder offers a compliment. I expect a heck of a lot more fun this year, than the last 2...
We all have different takes. Not sure TD has that much advantage over other qbs in Gilbert’s system. TD only had fall camp and four games to work in Gilbert’s system. Same as Morgan and markowitz. Sharder and lamson both came in January.
gilbert has a similar offense as DB but there will be a number of differences. Also it’s clear based on recruiting Gilbert prefers a DT as a qb in his offense.
 
We all have different takes. Not sure TD has that much advantage over other qbs in Gilbert’s system. TD only had fall camp and four games to work in Gilbert’s system. Same as Morgan and markowitz. Sharder and lamson both came in January.
gilbert has a similar offense as DB but there will be a number of differences. Also it’s clear based on recruiting Gilbert prefers a DT as a qb in his offense.
TD has the most game experience in the system so he does have the advantage.

I think Gilbert likes the abilities of dual threats but he will play the guy who run the system the most efficiently. His one year at Texas he went with pocket passer Shane Brushele over Swoops and Heard. Both of them were dual threats QB's with experience.
 
It’s definitely a advantage when teams aren’t able to game plan against your tendencies
The UNC game they had him throw it deep just about every pass. He didn’t have to make a read. Helps a lot. We don’t have a deep threat this year so he can’t even use those throws often.
 
Some people just totally ignore the fact that other QB’s get sacked less when they are in the game.
In fairness…. people like to quote that stat without adjusting for less plays overall including less pass plays as a percentage of total plays, quicker simpler reads (for a frosh and a back up who could only throw 30 yarfs) and improvement (healthier) line throughout a season where there was no camp. Just look at how much the running game got better throughout the year, including when we had to use backups.
 
We'll see. Knowing he's fixed some things in practice is a good start.

I'm of the mindset that Tommy will EARN the bulk of the reps. I still think we see Garrett a bit, to keep the def off balance. (Or if WRs or Oline struggles-and for transfer purposes)


IF some of those things are fixed, I think we get to see Tommy's arm talent, this year. I think we all agree, he has the arm talent.(he does) That's my hope, anyways. I expect an improved line, run game, and an improved Tommy Devito-in the pocket.

Schraeder has some catching up to do. To money's point, its going to take some time if we're going to see Schrader in an extended role. (Depending on his summer). Its going to have to get UGLY early, for Schraeder to earn a ton of reps, early. NONE of us want Ugly. Especially, early, because we need to win those 1st 4 games, and its NOT just the QB.

I'm team Devito on this. I want to see that arm WORK. He knows the deal. You are a crazy person if you don't think he's trying to improve himself.

I'm hoping to see the 2 deep in the 1st half of Ohio. Maybe I'm crazy?, but this is a fan forum. (Yes. I'm crazy. Lol)

We need Devito to carry us early. I think he does. Great if Schraeder offers a compliment. I expect a heck of a lot more fun this year, than the last 2...
With a new OL coach, new starters, and typical start of season slow start. Expect the OL to struggle the first two games before getting this worked out vs Albany. Which means the OL won’t be ready for Schiano’s constant blitzing. I think the OL will be better those three games vs 2019-20 but it will still be 2016 bad. Can Tommy perform with that?

I think Liberty till the bye week the OL will be serviceable or 2017 like. Is that enough for TD to show his arm talent off?

The last three games after the bye I think the OL will be decent or 2018 like. Will TD still be the QB by then? Dino the HC?
 
In fairness…. people like to quote that stat without adjusting for less plays overall including less pass plays as a percentage of total plays, quicker simpler reads (for a frosh and a back up who could only throw 30 yarfs) and improvement (healthier) line throughout a season where there was no camp. Just look at how much the running game got better throughout the year, including when we had to use backups.
If you look at sacks per passing attempt in 2018, 2019, 2020 there is significant difference. In 2018 did he not have quick reads? In 2019 after the first bye week and all those sacks if it was as simple quick reads why not adjust?

The first few games in 2020 Rex had packages. That should be a red flag that the coaches added packages for Rex as he doesn’t give you much. Why did he throw the ball 16x vs UNC and Pitt? Why did he look better than TD?
 
The knocks on Devito coming out of HS are the same issues we see today - needs to develop better pocket presence, tends to lock on on his first receiver…

I’m not sure it’s ever going to get better. It is the equivalent to a basketball recruit that shoots 20 percent from three. Unlikely that player is ever going to be a three point threat.
 
Arm talent at the college level is over rated. The ability to improvise is under rated. Very few teams at the college level can afford a pure pocket passer. SU needs a QB that can keep defenses honest with their legs. They don't all need to be Eric but they do need the ability to run.
The good news is that Tommy has wheels. What he doesn't have is great vision or feel. To my eye he needs more of a scripted O than the read and shoot. If Gilbert can actually call the plays vs the O " taking what the D gives" TD will do much better.
Move the decision process to Gilbert and just have TD execute the play. We need to simplify his responsibilities which should help speed up his play.
 
In fairness…. people like to quote that stat without adjusting for less plays overall including less pass plays as a percentage of total plays, quicker simpler reads (for a frosh and a back up who could only throw 30 yarfs) and improvement (healthier) line throughout a season where there was no camp. Just look at how much the running game got better throughout the year, including when we had to use backups.
I agree with JM. He didnt have the whole playbook. He only played in a couple of games so I dont factor him into my thoughts. Welch and Culpepper is a different story. Those two had the same play book TD had. Both are less talented. Welch was pretty solid and he didnt have much experience prior to the Wake game. At some points of the game you need to throw deeper pass concepts. Down and distance dictakes that so we cant say every snap was a simple read for them. For me, it still comes down to in game decision making and that plays a part in why he gets sacked so often.
 
In 2018 did he not have quick reads?
He averaged 9.3 Yarf per attempt and 14.8 Yarf per completion in 2018 during UNC and FSU. I would say those were not quick reads.

The line was so bad vs ND we couldn’t run or pass for the only game that year (and got Eric hurt). WMU was the first game ever for a RSF so I don’t know how much information is there.

I am not saying Devito has good pocket awareness, I am just saying he is not nearly as bad as most of you make it out to be. He is probably average in the pocket and when the line is decent and he is healthy he showed that I think in a few games but also had some clunkers. Like I said, average.
 
The knocks on Devito coming out of HS are the same issues we see today - needs to develop better pocket presence, tends to lock on on his first receiver…

I’m not sure it’s ever going to get better. It is the equivalent to a basketball recruit that shoots 20 percent from three. Unlikely that player is ever going to be a three point threat.
Agree. He’s got all the skills in terms of arm strength and accuracy but doesn’t scan the field well for some reason and seems to struggle with defensive reads. Locks onto first guy. He’s missed open guys countless times (and I’m basing that on the times he had a decent pocket). I’ve spent a lot of time watching his eyes and how he reads the field. He’s also a perfectionist in terms of routes and I think when things break down, he doesn’t adjust as well.

I’m rooting for him to succeed - he’s been a loyal great kid in the program. I’d love to see him take the next step. I have no doubt the pressure has messed with his head and confidence (it’s happened to many QBs in the past) but not sure if it messes with your ability to read a defense.
 
With a new OL coach, new starters, and typical start of season slow start. Expect the OL to struggle the first two games before getting this worked out vs Albany. Which means the OL won’t be ready for Schiano’s constant blitzing. I think the OL will be better those three games vs 2019-20 but it will still be 2016 bad. Can Tommy perform with that?

I think Liberty till the bye week the OL will be serviceable or 2017 like. Is that enough for TD to show his arm talent off?

The last three games after the bye I think the OL will be decent or 2018 like. Will TD still be the QB by then? Dino the HC?

I think there is some validity to your take about the OL, but I think your conclusion is unduly pessimistic. On the basis of improved depth and talent alone, plus getting several prospective key contributors back from injury, the line play will be improved from last year. How much improved? TBD.

I understand the "Missouri" approach to avoid rushing to judgement, but the fact that we might have three guys [and at minimum, two] who started a substantial portion of last year on OL pushed to the second unit speaks volumes.

Again, when you field the worst ever OL, there's nowhere to go but up. The question is -- how much will it improve? SU has never historically had strong OL [even back in the McNabb days], but having the OL go from completely subpar to functional is achievable, and would pay huge dividends.



Edit -- I also view the new OL coach as a net positive, compared to Cavanaugh. Him being here in the spring should eliminate what you predict for the first two games, IMO.
 
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I agree with JM. He didnt have the whole playbook. He only played in a couple of games so I dont factor him into my thoughts. Welch and Culpepper is a different story. Those two had the same play book TD had. Both are less talented. Welch was pretty solid and he didnt have much experience prior to the Wake game. At some points of the game you need to throw deeper pass concepts. Down and distance dictakes that so we cant say every snap was a simple read for them. For me, it still comes down to in game decision making and that plays a part in why he gets sacked so often.
Totally fair. I think that is without question his weakest point.

The place I have my issue is that I think the evidence to date is that he is either average (my opinion) or you could probably convince me pretty easily of below average. What i don’t think is that he is a dumpster fire if there is a single opposite colored jersey in the backfield. I don’t think that’s true and I think there is a decent amount of evidence to the contrary (he used his legs vs UNC, FSU, WMU and even Duke and GT last two games in 2020)

The other part I don’t think people are taking into account is that he was fully healthy for UNC/FSU in 2018, fully healthy for WMU in 2019 and fully healthy GT and Duke last year. Almost all the games we were frustrated with him, he had a bad wheel or a cracked rib.

I do think he is going to turn this part of his game up this year though because I do think he initially came in thinking he could do 95% of his damage with his arm and he is realizing that even if he is not Dungey/McNabb/Shredder, he still needs to probably move the ratio to at least 80/20 to keep defenses honest and help out his protection. And between his health and this conscious decision, this is my prediction for his performance this year.

If not, at least we have options this year, which is why my overall optimism for Cuse and Dino is higher than it has been since 2018
 
When you “get the ball out quickly” -
you get sacked less.

Never mind those balls often go into the ground, or to the other team, but at least they aren’t getting sacked.
lol yes throwing the ball away/to the ground is a much better football decision than taking a sack (if it could have been avoided). Throwing ints is never good. The challenge is knowing when you can or cannot make a play while under duress. Some of the better QB's still struggle with that.
 
Totally fair. I think that is without question his weakest point.

The place I have my issue is that I think the evidence to date is that he is either average (my opinion) or you could probably convince me pretty easily of below average. What i don’t think is that he is a dumpster fire if there is a single opposite colored jersey in the backfield. I don’t think that’s true and I think there is a decent amount of evidence to the contrary (he used his legs vs UNC, FSU, WMU and even Duke and GT last two games in 2020)

The other part I don’t think people are taking into account is that he was fully healthy for UNC/FSU in 2018, fully healthy for WMU in 2019 and fully healthy GT and Duke last year. Almost all the games we were frustrated with him, he had a bad wheel or a cracked rib.

I do think he is going to turn this part of his game up this year though because I do think he initially came in thinking he could do 95% of his damage with his arm and he is realizing that even if he is not Dungey/McNabb/Shredder, he still needs to probably move the ratio to at least 80/20 to keep defenses honest and help out his protection. And between his health and this conscious decision, this is my prediction for his performance this year.

If not, at least we have options this year, which is why my overall optimism for Cuse and Dino is higher than it has been since 2018
Very good points.
 
I don't think it's always true. Sometimes it takes guys longer for it to click, sometimes it never clicks. I hope it clicks for Tommy next year.

We've had QBs whose 5th year was clearly better than the first 4. So it's certainly possible.

If we can't run the ball, none of it will matter. And I think where Shrader benefits us the most is in the running game. With DeVito, it's easier for the defense to key on, puts more pressure on the OL.

As far as the comments about not knowing the offense yet, I think that's a non-issue. We're not running Deleone's offense, where any formation and any play out of that formation can be run at anytime. Transfer QBs play right away all over college football.

Dino is desperate and I think he'll go back to the only model that worked for him here. The only thing that prevents it to me, is if Shrader can't hit water from a boat on passing downs.
 

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