Green Bananas

[SUbear]

What is we were to beat Pitt and BC and wind up 5-7 with all the injuries etc? How does that change opinions - or not?

You can dream. but not going to happen. If by some miracle it were to happen, yes then everything at least looks better, and appearances do count.

 

[rrlbees]

You're making the case for patience not a revolving door.

Never said I wanted Shafer gone. I'm railing on people and the excuses every year. Do one of two things. Give shafer 6 years or fans poney up so we can maybe get a $4-5m coach.

 

[xc84]

Never said I wanted Shafer gone. I'm railing on people and the excuses every year. Do one of two things. Give shafer 6 years or fans poney up so we can maybe get a $4-5m coach.

People are giving reasons to replace him. People are giving reasons to keep him. Not sure why they are "excuses". They are just reasons. I like Shafer. I think he will prove to be a good coach but rebuilding will take time.

Let's just give Shafer the 4 years and evaluate him at that point. LOL about getting fans to "pony up" $4-5M for a 'proven coach'.

 

[SUbear]

Never said I wanted Shafer gone. I'm railing on people and the excuses every year. Do one of two things. Give shafer 6 years or fans poney up so we can maybe get a $4-5m coach.

Shafer should get one more year to prove he can make adjustments, if he fails to do so he proves he is not head coach capable, and SU should immediately look elsewhere. Why do you think fans should pony up, as you put it, when it is continually this university's administration(through repeatedly taking funds out of the program) that has screwed up the football team. Maybe it is time for the university to pony up, if they wish to maintain D1 football, if not then so be it. I do not see why the university at this point(additional ACC monies) should be unable to pay adequately for their coaches. Perhaps other exorbitantly paid executives, who bring in no significant earnings, should receive a little less.

 

[CousCuse]

HCGB is pulling more recruits out of FLA/ALA/GA than the Orange Have ever seen. Is that not a sign of progress?

 

[TheCusian]

There is such a thing as playing hard and smart and winning. We haven't seen it a lot, but it does exist. And some teams actually do it consistently under the right coaching regime. Not sure how playing hard totally wipes away all of the other red flags.

What red flags? Curious.

 

[rrlbees]

People are giving reasons to replace him. People are giving reasons to keep him. Not sure why they are "excuses". They are just reasons. I like Shafer. I think he will prove to be a good coach but rebuilding will take time. Let's just give Shafer the 4 years and evaluate him at that point. LOL about getting fans to "pony up" $4-5M for a 'proven coach'.

They are excuses because it's the same old same old with a new coach. If he fails next year and we get another new coach, fans will say the same tired things. And I completely disagree with the rebuild thing. Not convinced. Another excuse for a new staff.

And why is it funny about a 4-5m coach?

 

[SUbear]

People are giving reasons to replace him. People are giving reasons to keep him. Not sure why they are "excuses". They are just reasons. I like Shafer. I think he will prove to be a good coach but rebuilding will take time.

Let's just give Shafer the 4 years and evaluate him at that point. LOL about getting fans to "pony up" $4-5M for a 'proven coach'.

Case in point on rebuilding, Mac did it in about five to six years, but we are now in year four for Marrone, and two for Shafer but we seem to have regressed. Just to say the clock is ticking and we are seeing little progress, SU can not afford further regression. I am even starting to lose interest, and my son no longer really wants to go to games(goes mainly to keep accompany me). I do not think we are an aberration in the fan base. No time to give more years to someone who does not take us forward. Shafer should get one more year, more only if significant progress is seen.

 

[TheCusian]

Clearly, he gets next year. Clearly. But, at this point in time, 2 more should not be a 'guarantee'. Not sure if he needs to produce a bowl to keep his job, or not. It couldn't hurt. But, he cannot continue to be inept in the areas currently lacking: - offense - specials - clock management - gameplanning - penalties - bizarre lectures on keeping college football in perspective with geopolitical situations - podium kindness These coaches always seem to create these impossible decision scenarios. The offense will probably take a step forward, and the defense a step back, and we'll again not know what to do. The point of the thread, and it seems well received, is that the 4-5 year protocol we've dealt with for 13 years needs to stop. At the time of the OP, I didn't even consider that it was a 'continuation hire'. Needs to get his crap together, and quick. Enough talk. The big mistake in all this was giving GRobbycakes so much rope, and likely just the hire in and of itself.

There is only three legitimate things that can be labeled "inept" on your list and the jury is out on whether Lester fixes them (offense, playcalling, and penalties).

Specials: we've been average. One of the best KO coverage teams in the country. Poor of punt coverage - but we have a really good punter. We've been quietly much improved on FG's (two 50 yarders).

Time management: not sure this isn't on McDonald. He's been known to freeze in the box and communication had been poor. Way better with Lester. No problem with smart TO's from Shafer to avoid disaster.

The lecture and podium thing are things you get with a fiery, speak your mind kind of guy. You're going to get some of that oddness that comes along with all the great sound bytes and humor. I kind of like it. Not something you fire a coach over.

 

[TheCusian]

Never said I wanted Shafer gone. I'm railing on people and the excuses every year. Do one of two things. Give shafer 6 years or fans poney up so we can maybe get a $4-5m coach.

Neither will happen and you know it. Again - using years of frustration (that Shafer was not a part of) to erase the reasons to have patience (we are only in year two) is unfair to the current coach.

 

[SUbear]

HCGB is pulling more recruits out of FLA/ALA/GA than the Orange Have ever seen. Is that not a sign of progress?

Who is HCGB exactly, not familiar with him. Regardless it would only be progress when and if the on field results showed progress.

 

[SUFan44]

There is only three legitimate things that can be labeled "inept" on your list and the jury is out on whether Lester fixes them (offense, playcalling, and penalties).

Specials: we've been average. One of the best KO coverage teams in the country. Poor of punt coverage - but we have a really good punter. We've been quietly much improved on FG's (two 50 yarders).

Time management: not sure this isn't on McDonald. He's been known to freeze in the box and communication had been poor. Way better with Lester. No problem with smart TO's from Shafer to avoid disaster.

The lecture and podium thing are things you get with a fiery, speak your mind kind of guy. You're going to get some of that oddness that comes along with all the great sound bytes and humor. I kind of like it. Not something you fire a coach over.

You have an awful lot of excuses.

 

[CousCuse]

Who is HCGB exactly, not familiar with him. Regardless it would only be progress when and if the on field results showed progress.

Head Coach Green Banana . 7-6 , bowl win over Minny in year 1 , or doesn't that count.

 

[SUbear]

Neither will happen and you know it. Again - using years of frustration (that Shafer was not a part of) to erase the reasons to have patience (we are only in year two) is unfair to the current coach.

Why should this be about fairness? It should not, it should only be about demonstrably visible progress. One more year to prove he can get things back on track, at least to a 6 win season, more if he accomplishes that much.
The offense must be fixed or he has no chance.

 

[SUbear]

Head Coach Green Banana . 7-6 , bowl win over Minny in year 1 , or doesn't that count.

No it actually does not count after this year, lost all credit for last year and not even sure that should not have been at least partially credited to Marrone.

 

[xc84]

Case in point on rebuilding, Mac did it in about five to six years, but we are now in year four for Marrone, and two for Shafer but we seem to have regressed. Just to say the clock is ticking and we are seeing little progress, SU can not afford further regression. I am even starting to lose interest, and my son no longer really wants to go to games(goes mainly to keep accompany me). I do not think we are an aberration in the fan base. No time to give more years to someone who does not take us forward. Shafer should get one more year, more only if significant progress is seen.

Mac took until his 7th year. His 6th year he was 5-6 (losing record). Marrone had a losing record his third year ("regressed" from prior year I guess). The apathy fans have can't be blamed entirely on Shafer. That has brewed since the early 00s. Case in point on rebuilding, Mac got it done in year 7.

 

[xc84]

And why is it funny about a 4-5m coach?

You said fans should "pony up" $4-5M. I found that to be funny because it is so unlikely but you present it like it is an actual strategy you are proposing. I can picture you in the board room telling the trustees about this "strategy."

"If we don't give him a 6 year contract, we get the fans to pony up $4-6M to get another coach. Any questions? "

 

[rrlbees]

Shafer should get one more year to prove he can make adjustments, if he fails to do so he proves he is not head coach capable, and SU should immediately look elsewhere. Why do you think fans should pony up, as you put it, when it is continually this university's administration(through repeatedly taking funds out of the program) that has screwed up the football team. Maybe it is time for the university to pony up, if they wish to maintain D1 football, if not then so be it. I do not see why the university at this point(additional ACC monies) should be unable to pay adequately for their coaches. Perhaps other exorbitantly paid executives, who bring in no significant earnings, should receive a little less.

The big boys who pay $4-5m per year do not pony up all the money. Way it works.

 

[TheCusian]

You have an awful lot of excuses.

Naw. I see things as they are and not through a lens of pent up frustration and negativity.

 

[rrlbees]

Neither will happen and you know it. Again - using years of frustration (that Shafer was not a part of) to erase the reasons to have patience (we are only in year two) is unfair to the current coach.

It always feels like year two.

 

[SUFan44]

Naw. I see things as they are and not through a lens of pent up frustration and negativity.

You can see things the way you see things all you want. Fact of the matter is there were an awful lot of excuses in your post - and in your prior posts as well.

 

[TheCusian]

Why should this be about fairness? It should not, it should only be about demonstrably visible progress. One more year to prove he can get things back on track, at least to a 6 win season, more if he accomplishes that much. The offense must be fixed or he has no chance.

I agree with you - the offense needs to be fixed or he'll lose his job.

I was speaking towards giving him less of s chance than his predecessors because of a personal frustration that spans beyond his tenure by 8-10 years.

 

[rrlbees]

You said fans should "pony up" $4-5M. I found that to be funny because it is so unlikely but you present it like it is an actual strategy you are proposing. I can picture you in the board room telling the trustees about this "strategy." "If we don't give him a 6 year contract, we get the fans to pony up $4-6M to get another coach. Any questions? "

Well that's how the programs that hire those type of coaches do it. They don't take it all out if their budget.

Either go big or go home. Or stop with the rebuild excuses.

 

[SUFan44]

I agree with you - the offense needs to be fixed or he'll lose his job.

I was speaking towards giving him less of s chance than his predecessors because of a personal frustration that spans beyond his tenure by 8-10 years.

I think you're reading way too much into the frustrations of the board. Who are you to judge that?

As a fan base, are we frustrated? Heck yes. And if you were an SU fan, you'd be frustrated too.

Does that make any of our points less valid - RE: discipline on the field (stupid penalties, not keeping contain on a 1-AA QB, etc.), horrible punt-go decisions, ill-advised clock management or lack of offensive plan for the last 2 years? Heck not it doesn't.

 

[SUbear]

Mac took until his 7th year. His 6th year he was 5-6 (losing record). Marrone had a losing record his third year ("regressed" from prior year I guess). The apathy fans have can't be blamed entirely on Shafer. That has brewed since the early 00s. Case in point on rebuilding, Mac got it done in year 7.

Beat Nebraska before year seven, and that is where the program showed first sign of resurgence. You can say year seven and that would be indisputable, does not change what I was trying to say in my original post. Guess somehow makes you feel better to have what you believe is the exact year, good for you. I will agree to seven years, but was not relevant to my point.