Green Bananas

[rrlbees]

You proposed it. Silly me for thinking you were proposing something that you actually thought could happen.

I didn't propose anything.

 

[rrlbees]

Now you're getting it. If you have a gripe - it should be directed at the Athletic Dept, not Shafer. He's not perfect and there is a slew of things to fix and improve - but giving Shafer less time than his predecessors (all the way back to the Jim Brown days) with better or similar results is foolish. The same reasons to see Shafer through, applied to every SU coach in the modern era. Again, if you're looking at season after season of mediocrity - look to the common denominators during that whole era - not the coach who hasn't even been on the job for two whole seasons yet.

I got it all along. You just aren't reading my posts and are reading what you want them to say.

 

[SUFan44]

ME: If we have a 3-9 season and are bit by injuries, have no bye-weeks, but also made poor playcalls at bad moments - who is to blame?
Correct answer: Both.

YOU: If we have a 3-9 season and focus solely on just the bad playcalls, who is to blame?
Correct answer: The coaches

Never have I said it was all the coaches. Merely they should not get a free ride for this season. Reading comprehension works, too.

 

[TheCusian]

Never have I said it was all the coaches. Merely they should not get a free ride for this season. Reading comprehension works, too.

How do you suppose we hold them accountable?

I think you have to look at all of the factors - hold them accountable for the stuff that they suck at with a healthy appreciation of the things they do well - as well as the stuff that affects the w-l that are out of their control. Any other reading of the situation is biased.

 

[TheCusian]

I got it all along. You just aren't reading my posts and are reading what you want them to say.

You: I so much want Shafer to succeed but I completely agree with you. Tired of the words rebuild and coaches needing 4 years to have their own players. Blah blah blah.

Let's parse that out.

1. Shafer is in year two.
2. Gross has not said any of the words you're tired of hearing.
3. Some fans, me included - think there is a rush to judgement on Shafer after under two years.
4. The words you're tired of hearing were extended to every coach in the modern era at Syracuse
5. You must be tired of hearing it because you are frustrated over the last 3-4 HC hires and the relative mediocrity during that period

Me: You may be tired of hearing it. But Shafer should be extended the same affordances as his predecessors. The end.

 

[xc84]

I didn't propose anything.

You: "Give shafer 6 years or fans poney up so we can maybe get a $4-5m coach."

 

[swish7]

Hadn't really thought about that, and I had to check.

Shafer: no prior HC experience
Marrone: no prior HC experience
Robinson: no prior HC experience
Pasqualoni: 5 years at W. Connecticut St.
Macpherson: 6 years at UMass
Maloney: no prior HC experience
Schwartzwalder: 3 years at Muhlenberg (1946-1948)

So, going back to WWII, Syracuse has never hired a HC with previous D1 HC experience, nor even D-1AA experience.

Hiring an up-and-coming MAC coach would be a big change of pace for us.

Nice research. Looking at your list, there was only one coach out of the bunch whom didn't have HC experience and didn't end up sucking at SU: Marrone. Jury is out on Shaffer.

So yeah, I guess our best bet is to hire someone with prior HC experience.

 

[rrlbees]

You: "Give shafer 6 years or fans poney up so we can maybe get a $4-5m coach."

Doesn't propose the 4-5m coach. Gives choices. Nice attempt.

 

[rrlbees]

You: I so much want Shafer to succeed but I completely agree with you. Tired of the words rebuild and coaches needing 4 years to have their own players. Blah blah blah. Let's parse that out. 1. Shafer is in year two. 2. Gross has not said any of the words you're tired of hearing. 3. Some fans, me included - think there is a rush to judgement on Shafer after under two years. 4. The words you're tired of hearing were extended to every coach in the modern era at Syracuse 5. You must be tired of hearing it because you are frustrated over the last 3-4 HC hires and the relative mediocrity during that period Me: You may be tired of hearing it. But Shafer should be extended the same affordances as his predecessors. The end.

Me: Never said I wanted Shafer gone. Im railing on people and the excuses every year. Do one of two things. Give shafer 6 years or fans poney up so we can maybe get a $4-5m coach.

 

[xc84]

Me: Never said I wanted Shafer gone. Im railing on people and the excuses every year. Do one of two things. Give shafer 6 years or fans poney up so we can maybe get a $4-5m coach.

LOL...you are doubling down on your proposal.

 

[rrlbees]

LOL...you are doubling down on your proposal.

Makes no sense.

 

[SUbear]

What?!?! Marrone took everyone but the ball boys with him - also losing a few high profile recruits. Shafer was familiar with the talent and where to park his car. That's it.

New QB, new OC, new DC, new conference. I think last year was harder and better handled than any of Marrone's.

And you think there is no carry over of the coaching of players from the previous staff? Bull. Last years team was a result of three years under Marrone and staff tutelage for the senior leadership of that team, so yes partial credit to Marrone and staff. Losing recruits would not change that, but probably impacted this years team.

 

[SUbear]

Perceptions matter. Let's say we did neat Ptii and B and that those games happened earlier and we were 5-6 going into the last game against say Clemson. Playing Clemson tough while injured etc would make the whole season look and feel different.

I said appearances count. As to the rest, it did not go that way. I still do not see this team winning out, but enough of a fan that I will still be rooting them to pull it off. I really want them to pull it off. I HATE the idea of only three wins.

 

[xc84]

I said appearances count. As to the rest, it did not go that way. I still do not see this team winning out, but enough of a fan that I will still be rooting them to pull it off. I really want them to pull it off. I HATE the idea of only three wins.

Winning any of the remaining games will hinge on the injury situation.

 

[Crusty]

I said appearances count. As to the rest, it did not go that way. I still do not see this team winning out, but enough of a fan that I will still be rooting them to pull it off. I really want them to pull it off. I HATE the idea of only three wins.

I was agreeing with you. Winning at the end of the season leaves such a better impression even if the record winds up the same.

 

[TheCusian]

And you think there is no carry over of the coaching of players from the previous staff? Bull. Last years team was a result of three years under Marrone and staff tutelage for the senior leadership of that team, so yes partial credit to Marrone and staff. Losing recruits would not change that, but probably impacted this years team.

C'mon. In the post I was responding to you said that his 7-6 win was negated by this season and probably was partially attributed to Marrone (who left the team high and dry). You do realize in addition to losing just about our entire coaching staff to Buffalo, we also lost our leading WR, an NFL QB, and and 1st rounder from our offensive line? Negating that season is crap. It was a really nice coaching job.

Your bias against Shafer is epic in size.

 

[TheCusian]

And you think there is no carry over of the coaching of players from the previous staff? Bull. Last years team was a result of three years under Marrone and staff tutelage for the senior leadership of that team, so yes partial credit to Marrone and staff. Losing recruits would not change that, but probably impacted this years team.

Also: your senior leadership on offense was Macky. Shafer coached the D, do not sure you can give credit to Bromley and Spruill to Marrone.

 

[SmilinBob]

I want Shafer to have 5 years minimum. There are things that drive me crazy about him especially with the 4th and 2 inside the 40 of the other team and the like but if this offense is hitting on all cylinders is it possible he wouldn't think twice about going for it? Injuries aside, if this team can get a good offensive flow and improve the special team return games I firmly believe we will start to see a lot of good things from this team. I admit I was wrong when I wrote they were going to win every game after the Clemson game but if Lester can get this offense going Shafer will have this team playing hard and winning.

 

[CousCuse]

C'mon. In the post I was responding to you said that his 7-6 win was negated by this season and probably was partially attributed to Marrone (who left the team high and dry). You do realize in addition to losing just about our entire coaching staff to Buffalo, we also lost our leading WR, an NFL QB, and and 1st rounder from our offensive line? Negating that season is crap. It was a really nice coaching job.

Your bias against Shafer is epic in size.

They can not see How much damage is done to the morale of the staff , team and fans by nonstop complaining . A person Gets a job to do , let them Have enough time to do it before you poison their well. A statement out of passion , OK , but after time to think , just short sighted and malicious.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Cutcliffe at Duke went 4-8, 5-7, 3-9, 3-9 in his 1st 4 years.

They're on pace for back-to-back 10 win seasons.

Sometimes the bananas take a little longer to ripen.

 

[SmilinBob]

Cutcliffe at Duke went 4-8, 5-7, 3-9, 3-9 in his 1st 4 years.

They're on pace for back-to-back 10 win seasons.

Sometimes the bananas take a little longer to ripen.

Yep...especially if you know it's going to be a good banana when it does. No tarantulas but admittedly the banana had been bruised in 2014 and hopefully will heal and ripen for 2015/16 and 17.

 

[SUbear]

C'mon. In the post I was responding to you said that his 7-6 win was negated by this season and probably was partially attributed to Marrone (who left the team high and dry). You do realize in addition to losing just about our entire coaching staff to Buffalo, we also lost our leading WR, an NFL QB, and and 1st rounder from our offensive line? Negating that season is crap. It was a really nice coaching job.

Your bias against Shafer is epic in size.

I have no bias against Shafer. He only coached the impact players on that team for that one year, if you can not see that the coaching of those players by the previous staff would have an impact on those players performance then you are being intentionally obtuse. That is what is crap.
I am not negating that season just pointing out he was less of a factor than you choose to believe. I hope Shafer has a great season next year, but he has performed poorly this year. You choose to blindly support him, I do not. Try reality instead of pie in the sky.
You support him without any doubts good for you, but he has much still to prove before I join that camp.
Oh and by the way if you do not like my opinion please just ignore me, never bothered by being ignored by people like you.

 

[Crusty]

21 injuries on the 2 deep. Is there another team in the nation to which that happened?

 

[SUbear]

Also: your senior leadership on offense was Macky. Shafer coached the D, do not sure you can give credit to Bromley and Spruill to Marrone.

Love the way you cherry pick to support your bias. Was he not their head coach for three years? You believe he had no influence over any of that teams players developement in all that time, okay then he was just a figurehead in your opinion. Got it.

 

[SUbear]

21 injuries on the 2 deep. Is there another team in the nation to which that happened?

This teams offense was not any good before the injuries, injuries of course contributed to season, especially Hunt being out. I think we win two more games at this point with Hunt at QB. That does not fully excuse Shafer's poor coaching however.
I hope he gets things back on track next year, but am in a wait and see mode.

 

[TheCusian]

I have no bias against Shafer. He only coached the impact players on that team for that one year, if you can not see that the coaching of those players by the previous staff would have an impact on those players performance then you are being intentionally obtuse. That is what is crap. I am not negating that season just pointing out he was less of a factor than you choose to believe. I hope Shafer has a great season next year, but he has performed poorly this year. You choose to blindly support him, I do not. Try reality instead of pie in the sky. You support him without any doubts good for you, but he has much still to prove before I join that camp. Oh and by the way if you do not like my opinion please just ignore me, never bothered by being ignored by people like you.

People like me, huh? Nice. I may disagree and fight to the point of obnoxiousness - but I don't attack the person. That is crap.

Here's the deal: I've repeatedly - repeatedly - said that they did a poor job this year and need to improve. You're the one making it personal because I like my negative accompanied by a clear view of ALL the reasons for the poor performance AND see silver linings. I don't blindly support anyone. But I also recognize when it's wise to take a step back and really evaluate - instead of the blind negativity from pent up frustration that I see when I read your posts.

If you can't see the positive - it's you that is living outside of reality.