Gross on Metlife game/Friday games

[rrlbees]

please. dont give me the Jersey v NYC argument.

you know better and youve been to Yankee Stadium for football, it sucks. a bowl game makes its tolerable.

the cheapest ticket for this is $55.

these games are smart $$$ makers.

i know you will often be at every game, unless something big comes up.

but its not the doomsday scenario as you present it.

its all about the benjamins.

It isn't doomsday but it is huge gamble. If we aren't big winners only the fine lot crew will be in the Dome and nobody will come up from NYC. And the games in MetLife are nice for the alums but the casual college fan in NYC isn't going to go in droves to NJ. Those games in MetLife also takes away any home field advantage SU would have in the Dome thus making it tougher on the record.

I still think that 10 game deal may go bye bye. Besides, TGD told us USC would be in the Dome, so he is obviously open to changing his mind on things.

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[omniorange]

I agree with Bees that the model is a huge gamble. But I also believe that it's a high risk, high reward type gamble.

My worries come more with the fact that the first of these 14 is against USC, which was originally scheduled as a Dome game. It's not as though USC is a huge draw in NYC like the next three Giants' Stadium game will be - PSU and ND (two times).

I'd much rather have had USC be the second or third opponent in this set-up than the first.

As for the 1-1-1 model, I don't think anyone outside of PSU would be willing to go for that. The best we would likely get out of future big-time OOC opponents is a 1-2-1 model (1 in the Dome, 2 on the road, 1 at Giants' Stadium).

I also think TGD is thinking a 9-game ACC conference schedule is going to hamper getting the additional 10 games in anyway. I just don't see how we manage to keep this set-up going without having at least 4-5 of those additional 10 games be against conference opponents. Not sure Gross wants to play 'home' conference games outside the Dome, which may result in this thing going away even if it is deemed a 'success'.

But if it does stay, and I'm right about it being virtually impossible for all of these games to be OOC, that means the every other year model would likely have to switch from even years to odd years at some point since our 5 home conference games will be in odd years.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[billsin01]

I don't think anyone can rationally question his logic with the MetLife games. But his logic on the Thursday/Friday games could use some work. I can handle an odd weekday game now and again, but deciding to turn our other marquee games to Thur/Fri matchups means we are now left with a handful of bunk football games scheduled for Saturday. (You know...the day college football is traditionally played)

Hey Sparky...if Saturday nooners suck that bad, how about you quit scheduling every game for Saturday at noon.

But TV controls everything. It's the whole reason we're switching conferences. So if you're supporting that, how are you not supporting a much more attractive time slot than a game on Saturday that gets lost amid the host of SEC/ND/Pac 12/Big 10 games?

 

[rrlbees]

I also think TGD is thinking a 9-game ACC conference schedule is going to hamper getting the additional 10 games in anyway. I just don't see how we manage to keep this set-up going without having at least 4-5 of those additional 10 games be against conference opponents.

Cheers,
Neil

While I didn't mention it, that too worries me. Conference games in MetLife. I hope that wasn't part of the deal to get us in the ACC so that the conference could get some exposure in the area at our expense.

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[billsin01]

It isn't doomsday but it is huge gamble. If we aren't big winners only the fine lot crew will be in the Dome and nobody will come up from NYC. And the games in MetLife are nice for the alums but the casual college fan in NYC isn't going to go in droves to NJ. Those games in MetLife also takes away any home field advantage SU would have in the Dome thus making it tougher on the record.

I still think that 10 game deal may go bye bye. Besides, TGD told us USC would be in the Dome, so he is obviously open to changing his mind on things.

I'm not sure I get the 'huge gamble' part of this equation. They have lagging attendance, absolutely no relevance nationally (which is down from 'marginally relevant' during our glory years in the McNabb era), low-end facilities ... I mean, what is it they are gambling again? The 35K average for a 29K average?

Here are the ways my thinking differs from a lot of folks on the board (on the thursday/friday issue as well):

-- The casual football fan in NYC will in fact go to these games. You mean to tell me that if you're 25, living in NYC and have $55 to spend you're not going to see PSU/Cuse on a nice saturday afternoon in the fall? It's not going to draw 25,000 of those types of fans but it will draw a fair amount of casual fans, IMO. Will they care about SU afterwards? No, not really. But they will shell out a bit of cash.

-- I can't reiterate this enough -- NYC is a pretty cool town. The idea that people are somehow offended -- and I'm not saying you, Bees, but that has certainly been an opinion expressed here -- that these games are in NYC is insane. A weekend in NYC in the fall, a game against a marquee opponent, a huge crowd, a fun tailgate setup, still affordable tix ... Listen, I know not everyone will drive to NYC but you have to try and see the other side of this thing: it could be *gasp* fun for those that aren't viewing a 4-hour drive as Columbus' maiden voyage to the New World or the Dome as the Roman Coliseum of college football.

-- Thursday/Friday night games. I admit I say this as a father of three who has things like soccer and crap on Saturdays, but I still don't get why folks are upset by this. This is a new world. The days of football on saturday only are gone. We are doing everything we do b/c of TV -- it's why we're headed to the ACC, which most people (not me) seem incredibly thrilled about. So if they tell us to play Thursday/Friday, we do it. Plus, it's a much better time slot in terms of the game actually being differentiated from the slew of games mid-afternoon on Saturday. Plus, people really can't skip out of work a few hours early on a Friday with months of notice to tailgate and then go to a good football game? Really?

-- The Dome is meh for football. I know we as Syracuse fans love the dome but it's simply not a draw to opponents. If they acquiesce and allow us to play a third game at the dome with one on the road and one neutral, we should be jumping up and down. The fact that you, Syracusefan.com poster, likes the dome does not make it a viable, exciting option for opponents.

 

[bubba1917]

I'm not sure I get the 'huge gamble' part of this equation. They have lagging attendance, absolutely no relevance nationally (which is down from 'marginally relevant' during our glory years in the McNabb era), low-end facilities ... I mean, what is it they are gambling again? The 35K average for a 29K average?

Here are the ways my thinking differs from a lot of folks on the board (on the thursday/friday issue as well):

-- The casual football fan in NYC will in fact go to these games. You mean to tell me that if you're 25, living in NYC and have $55 to spend you're not going to see PSU/Cuse on a nice saturday afternoon in the fall? It's not going to draw 25,000 of those types of fans but it will draw a fair amount of casual fans, IMO. Will they care about SU afterwards? No, not really. But they will shell out a bit of cash.

-- I can't reiterate this enough -- NYC is a pretty cool town. The idea that people are somehow offended -- and I'm not saying you, Bees, but that has certainly been an opinion expressed here -- that these games are in NYC is insane. A weekend in NYC in the fall, a game against a marquee opponent, a huge crowd, a fun tailgate setup, still affordable tix ... Listen, I know not everyone will drive to NYC but you have to try and see the other side of this thing: it could be *gasp* fun for those that aren't viewing a 4-hour drive as Columbus' maiden voyage to the New World or the Dome as the Roman Coliseum of college football.

-- Thursday/Friday night games. I admit I say this as a father of three who has things like soccer and crap on Saturdays, but I still don't get why folks are upset by this. This is a new world. The days of football on saturday only are gone. We are doing everything we do b/c of TV -- it's why we're headed to the ACC, which most people (not me) seem incredibly thrilled about. So if they tell us to play Thursday/Friday, we do it. Plus, it's a much better time slot in terms of the game actually being differentiated from the slew of games mid-afternoon on Saturday. Plus, people really can't skip out of work a few hours early on a Friday with months of notice to tailgate and then go to a good football game? Really?

-- The Dome is meh for football. I know we as Syracuse fans love the dome but it's simply not a draw to opponents. If they acquiesce and allow us to play a third game at the dome with one on the road and one neutral, we should be jumping up and down. The fact that you, Syracusefan.com poster, likes the dome does not make it a viable, exciting option for opponents.

Well we were there twice in kick off games and attendance was piss poor. We will see if times have changed. I doubt it.

 

[omniorange]

Well we were there twice in kick off games and attendance was piss poor. We will see if times have changed. I doubt it.

We were there three times:

1990 vs USC - 57,293
1997 vs Wisconsin - 51,185 where the Badgers issued a public apology for failing to sell out their alloted 10K tickets
2001 vs GT - 41,517 lowest attended Kick-Off Classic

If this game gets the 57K the game got in 1990, I will consider it a success.

Only 7 of the Kick-Off Classics ever got over 70K in attendance, 6 of them involved either PSU or ND. The 7th was in 1999 when Miami faced Ohio State.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[OrangeMojo]

You mean like when Miami, VT, WVU and BC were in the BE and we had attendance issues unless we were 10-2 and even then attendance was very average.

Big gamble. Be a .500 team with the 14 best OOC games in NJ (where we still haven't taken recruiting seriously) and the program might crash. Dome attendance will certainly bottom out without a BIG winner and scrubs in the Dome. Get the program to 10-2, 11-1 and perennial Top 20 and we didn't need the NJ games.

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the program is always going to need extra $$$ and the marquee OOC opponents they'll be able to get for MetLife wouldn't be coming to the Dome in today's environment

 

[omniorange]

the program is always going to need extra $$$ and the marquee OOC opponents they'll be able to get for MetLife wouldn't be coming to the Dome in today's environment

I think the problem will be that many marquee OOC opponents will be tied up.

Texas and Oklahoma - nine game conference schedule.
PSU, Michigan, OSU, Nebraska - eight game conference schedule and then supposedly one game against a PAC-12 team.
USC - nine game conference schedule, ND, and in 2017 or 2018, a Big Ten opponent.
SEC Kings - 8 game conference schedule with Florida and Georgia always playing FSU and GT, respectively. Besides, we know SEC teams do not like to go outside the South. Will NYC be enough of a pull for any of them? Maybe Alabama with Saban?

ND - willing to do it, but are they willing to play at the Dome as well?

Seems to me options will be extremely limited from this point forward.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[sutomcat]

We were there three times:

1990 vs USC - 57,293
1997 vs Wisconsin - 51,185 where the Badgers issued a public apology for failing to sell out their alloted 10K tickets
2001 vs GT - 41,517 lowest attended Kick-Off Classic

If this game gets the 57K the game got in 1990, I will consider it a success.

Only 7 of the Kick-Off Classics ever got over 70K in attendance, 6 of them involved either PSU or ND. The 7th was in 1999 when Miami faced Ohio State.

Cheers,
Neil

I will be amazed if 40K of tickets are actually sold. Would love to be proven wrong on this. The NYC alumni have been awful supporting SU football in the past, going back to the KO Classics and the Pinstripe. If they fail again, the big deal with the Meadowlands is going to fall apart and once the PSU and ND games are played, they are going to have to wait a long time to see SU play nearby again.

 

[omniorange]

I will be amazed if 40K of tickets are actually sold. Would love to be proven wrong on this. The NYC alumni have been awful supporting SU football in the past, going back to the KO Classics and the Pinstripe. If they fail again, the big deal with the Meadowlands is going to fall apart and once the PSU and ND games are played, they are going to have to wait a long time to see SU play nearby again.

Not disagreeing, which is why earlier I agreed with Bees it is a gamble.

But I don't see much more than 40K for USC at the Dome either. I think apathy on the part of NYC SU fans is more forgiveable than the apathy of local fans.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[OrangeMojo]

I think the problem will be that many marquee OOC opponents will be tied up.

Texas and Oklahoma - nine game conference schedule.
PSU, Michigan, OSU, Nebraska - eight game conference schedule and then supposedly one game against a PAC-12 team.
USC - nine game conference schedule, ND, and in 2017 or 2018, a Big Ten opponent.
SEC Kings - 8 game conference schedule with Florida and Georgia always playing FSU and GT, respectively. Besides, we know SEC teams do not like to go outside the South. Will NYC be enough of a pull for any of them? Maybe Alabama with Saban?

ND - willing to do it, but are they willing to play at the Dome as well?

Seems to me options will be extremely limited from this point forward.

Cheers,
Neil

true - I think you'd see the B10 teams take the slots in the years they have the PAC10 teams at home - give their fan bases a game in the NYC market and hey don't see SU as a threat

SEC teams a possibility from time to time

ND wouldn't do deals with UConn or Rutgers b/c they insisted on home stadium games - would they do a different deal for SU? I don't know - but it's more likely after SU was willing to work with them on the series in MetLife and as they become accustomed to playing each other regularly.

 

[billsin01]

I will be amazed if 40K of tickets are actually sold. Would love to be proven wrong on this. The NYC alumni have been awful supporting SU football in the past, going back to the KO Classics and the Pinstripe. If they fail again, the big deal with the Meadowlands is going to fall apart and once the PSU and ND games are played, they are going to have to wait a long time to see SU play nearby again.

I'd be surprised if they didn't sell 50, though I certainly haven't done any sort of study to really have any idea what they will actually sell. But if they sell 40K, let's say, and the deal with the Meadowlands falls apart -- I'm still not sure I see the gamble? Should they never try anything different and try to be progressive? I view this in the same way I view putting seats on the Green Monster or playing ice hockey outdoors -- it's an event that draws some eyes to a program.

Here are five of my favorite SU football memories since the mid-90s (post-Graves):

-- Watching us beat the hell out of Wisc and ron dayne
-- Watching GRob do the unthinkable in South Bend from the 50-yard-line
-- Watching us beat the hell out of Miami in McNabb's senior season (I think)
-- Watching us beat the hell out of BC with Diamond Ferri
-- Watching the bowl game in NYC

Four of those five have zero to do with the dome. And three of the five are at least partially due to the venue/opponent combination. Not on the list is the Michigan game, which I'm sure was incredible.

Point is this: I really feel there is nothing wrong with the AD trying something different and playing in some cool places. NYC is literally down the road from CNY and anyone who disagrees with that is incredibly provincial. If people are going to hold a grudge b/c they only get to see solid teams at home but have to drive a bit to watch us play the big dogs, then I don't think there's much you can do.

 

[CU44SE]

Its probably not fair to say, especially to the people who have stuck with SU through the tough times and continue to watch the games and have season tickets but we lost our right to argue about a game being played 4 hours away a long time ago. The dome's attendance has been atrocious lately, and this game will not only help make the program a boatload of money (Ibelieve someone said 90% of our football money in 1 game, which also helps pay for better facilities and what not) but also its national exposure. Something, anything that will make a national audience talk about Syracuse is a positive (blowout wouldnt be good). I don't know about anyone else but I have this feeling that Syracuse football is turning a corner, and I think this is the Recruiting class that we start to win some battles.

 

[billsin01]

I don't know about anyone else but I have this feeling that Syracuse football is turning a corner, and I think this is the Recruiting class that we start to win some battles.

I'd say it's hard to know but I get that feeling a little bit too. I think they are, at the very least, in a position to take a nice step forward with the ACC move, the influx of a bit of cash and the apparent improvement in overall recruiting the last couple years.