Hire a coach and pay him

[AlaskaSU]

Age old question; talent or coaching? Look at SWC's tabulations under why Virginia will win. Our results are in-line with our talent deficit. Our talent is improving but it is far from a given that it would continue under a new coach. Instability is not a good selling point. Given that our talent is improving this is crazy talk to fire SS. However, recruiting and winning are closely related. If we are pathetic again it will hurt our recruiting. We have to pull out a few more wins if we are to eventually get out of our rut. Recruiters need something to sell and that something is that we are on the way up. Once we have the talent we can worry about coaching. Lets not put the cart before the horse. Right now we need the horses.

A roster of mostly 3 stars sure beats the ones we had that were full of no stars but we are competing against more talented teams. That is slowly changing. Lets give it a chance. It's our only chance. Obviously, star rating is not the be all and end all for any one player. However, in aggregate, like it or not, star ratings reflect overall talent.

 

[OrangePA]

In case the OP didnt notice, the Orange is really young, led by a special Frosh QB and loaded with first year defensive players. The team battled hard in a league game on enemy turf. They lost with their heads up and never quit. The future is bright. The "hire a new coach" talk really misses what is happening with SU Football in my opinion.

 

[elimunelson]

So the argument is 3 wins is fine bc the team is young. I think that assumes Shafer can coach the talent when it matures. That's where I have an issue. If shafer gets another year he will be on a supremely hot seat if it's w a season of 4 wins. Coyles career will b on the line as well w a guy he didn't hire.

A lot at play which makes yesterday's loss so eye opening. Shafer is not a good coach. He may b a good guy (I don't know him) but wins are a necessity. We move the goalposts to be ok w yest after weeks of people agreeing w the "we need to split the last two games at a minimum"

 

[IthacaBarrel]

So the argument is 3 wins is fine bc the team is young. I think that assumes Shafer can coach the talent when it matures. That's where I have an issue. If shafer gets another year he will be on a supremely hot seat if it's w a season of 4 wins. Coyles career will b on the line as well w a guy he didn't hire.

A lot at play which makes yesterday's loss so eye opening. Shafer is not a good coach. He may b a good guy (I don't know him) but wins are a necessity. We move the goalposts to be ok w yest after weeks of people agreeing w the "we need to split the last two games at a minimum"

Coyles career on the line in year 2? Come on dude, take it easy. I'm not really pleased eithe. 6 more games and couple will evaluate, I think we we finish 5-7

 

[TheCusian]

The O scored 10 points on its own today. Why does Lester "get it" if most of the production is improvisation from Dungey?

You don't count the 14 in OT? That's odd since they count on the scoreboard. And the two were really nice scoring drives/plays.

 

[TheCusian]

You should just walk away.

I cannot say what I want to say to you and not be banned, so use your imagination.

 

[elimunelson]

Coyles career on the line in year 2? Come on dude, take it easy. I'm not really pleased eithe. 6 more games and couple will evaluate, I think we we finish 5-7

U understand that if he doesn't make a move and then doesn't extend he's on an uber hot seat right? AD job is dependent on football. If we get to 2017 and hire a new coach that new coach will get 5 years so we will b in year 7 of his tenure. So yes this decision will determine a lot for him

 

[TheCusian]

If we do go the new coach route, we're in the ACC, we have the IPF, play in controlled conditions, and you've got legit talent in the freshman and sophomore classes. That will appeal to somebody good. I'm confident.

That and that Coyle seems competent. I said before the season the future looked bright, even before Dungey emerged.

If Shafer gets it done, great. If not the IPF, ACC money, P5 job, maybe a new dome - should get us someone pretty good. I hope we can open the pocketbooks a bit too.

 

[TheCusian]

In game management for a head coach is something you either got or don't got...can't be learned in my opinion

Disagree. You can learn if you are humble enough to look for answers.

 

[tipphill]

coyle needs to extend shafers contract now. of course there should be some goals and caveats in this, and money for assistants. i have not given up on lester yet, hope he is learning from all this. i like the player youth movement, but with it comes the growing pains.

 

[TheCusian]

In case the OP doesn't didnt notice, the Orange is really young, led by a special Frosh QB and loaded with first year defensive players. The team battled hard in a league game on enemy turf. They lost with their heads up and never quit. The future is bright. The "hire a new coach" talk really misses what is happening with SU Football in my opinion.

People have to check themselves "I've sat through 15 years of bad football, so I am impatient" is a poor reason to fire a coach.

Shafer's doing himself no favors though. Need an upset.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Disagree. You can learn if you are humble enough to look for answers.

Yeah...I thought that was weird.

Great meltdown though...if you ask me we should have fired Marrone after starting 2-4 three years ago.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

U understand that if he doesn't make a move and then doesn't extend he's on an uber hot seat right? AD job is dependent on football. If we get to 2017 and hire a new coach that new coach will get 5 years so we will b in year 7 of his tenure. So yes this decision will determine a lot for him

He will be on an uber hot seat? Who Coyle? I highly doubt it, you are being over the top here. Coyle was brought in to clean up the mess that Gross left behind, full of over overspending, poor planning and hires and bad decisions. He's not on any hot seat with regard to Scott Shafer, he just isn't, If he fires, extends or gives one more year. He has plenty of time to clean up.

 

[Saltine44Retro]

No more MAC coaches or NFL assistants or coaches from Central Connecticut State. Hire a name.

This. We are a top-tier team, hire a top-tier NAME. Enough of this bush-league, Buttgirlz style of trying to cheap out. We should be paying for a coach that is Florida State or Clemson level. PERIOD.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

This. We are a top-tier team, hire a top-tier NAME. Enough of this bush-league, Buttgirlz style of trying to cheap out. We should be paying for a coach that is Florida State or Clemson level. PERIOD.

This is a dumb line of reasoning. Urban Meyer was a Mac coach when he left for Utah. Toledo coach is a very good HC. Bryan Kelley as well was a d2 coach and then a Mac coach.

 

[HOFCeluck]

We are a top-tier team.

lol

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Yeah...I thought that was weird.

Great meltdown though...if you ask me we should have fired Marrone after starting 2-4 three years ago.

The difference to me is that it was clear to many of us that Marrone wasn't in over his head, had a plan and just needed time to execute given where we had come from. I don't believe SS has any of those three issues to deal with in the current state of the program. While some say it is only 3 years into his tenure, the facts around SS's hiring don't merit the 4-5 year shot. If you will recall, TGD literally had no plan, no proverbial list in his back pocket, when Marrone left. He was desperate and panicked to remedy what could become a bad situation on the hill and in the alumni ranks. In deciding not to conduct a search and promote SS, TGD reasoned that this path would give stability and continued growth to a program on the rise (albeit a gradual one). Given this scenario and his performance, I have no problem cutting the cord now in order to undertake a real search and plan back to consistent 7-9 win seasons.

We have a window now with an new AD and other external factors that gives us a real opportunity to look into the future of the program. I don't believe Coyle, having worked with closely with Peterson and hired people like Harsin, is the type of man to continue down this path and recognizes the value of ripping the bandaid off a bad situation.

 

[HOFCeluck]

The difference to me is that it was clear to many of us that Marrone wasn't in over his head, had a plan and just needed time to execute given where we had come from.

The exact same threads were popping up this time in 2012. I can bump'em if you want.

 

[N.Y. Orangeman]

The exact same threads were popping up this time in 2012. I can bump'em if you want.

I don't disagree with you on that point. My point is that personally, I saw something very different in Marrone than we see in Scott's carnival.

 

[TheCusian]

The difference to me is that it was clear to many of us that Marrone wasn't in over his head, had a plan and just needed time to execute given where we had come from. I don't believe SS has any of those three issues to deal with in the current state of the program. While some say it is only 3 years into his tenure, the facts around SS's hiring don't merit the 4-5 year shot. If you will recall, TGD literally had no plan, no proverbial list in his back pocket, when Marrone left. He was desperate and panicked to remedy what could become a bad situation on the hill and in the alumni ranks. In deciding not to conduct a search and promote SS, TGD reasoned that this path would give stability and continued growth to a program on the rise (albeit a gradual one). Given this scenario and his performance, I have no problem cutting the cord now in order to undertake a real search and plan back to consistent 7-9 win seasons. We have a window now with an new AD and other external factors that gives us a real opportunity to look into the future of the program. I don't believe Coyle, having worked with closely with Peterson and hired people like Harsin, is the type of man to continue down this path and recognizes the value of ripping the bandaid off a bad situation.

Marrone left before he got the job done. Guy climbed to the first base camp and took a picture of Everest from there.

He needed a couple more years of building. Maybe with an IPF and the ACC - he could have gotten some talent.

I think Gross was in a really tough spot when Marrone left. He did what he thought was right - and I don't think we should give up on Shafer yet.

Small extension to help with recruiting. Favorable buyout #'s if you can swing it. See if year 2 of Dungey/Lester gets it done. And as Anomander has said - I'd love to promote Daoust to DC this offseason. But I don't know if it will happen.

 

[CousCuse]

Marrone left before he got the job done. Guy climbed to the first base camp and took a picture of Everest from there.

He needed a couple more years of building. Maybe with an IPF and the ACC - he could have gotten some talent.

I think Gross was in a really tough spot when Marrone left. He did what he thought was right - and I don't think we should give up on Shafer yet.

Small extension to help with recruiting. Favorable buyout #'s if you can swing it. See if year 2 of Dungey/Lester gets it done. And as Anomander has said - I'd love to promote Daoust to DC this offseason. But I don't know if it will happen.

Marrone turned the team around and had a very solid class coming in for 2013 . He went to management and said what he needed and they said , no. Same thing at Buffalo. Scott is going to win some big games in the second half , at least if Eric Dungey has something to say about it , so don't write him off just yet.

 

[Cusefan78]

I don't disagree with you on that point. My point is that personally, I saw something very different in Marrone than we see in Scott's carnival.

Oh yeah what did you see. Marrone couldn't bring in recruits, fact! Marrone couldn't read the scoreboard, fact. Marrone was more conservative then shafer ever could be. Look at the players that are producing right now. Yes new staff and new system but the players this staff is bring in proves they have a plan and it's working. Are we proving it in wins. No but we are proving it when the announcers say 67% of our offense was from freshman. Add in Phillips and ish and I bet that ticks up in the 85% range. That proves shafers recruits are far better then the last staffs recruits. Marrone couldn't seal the deal. He came in here cleaned up the program which it needed and rode a senior qb to a bowl. Shafer came in with an experienced team got them to a bowl and now is rebuilding because marrone couldn't get players. All you Lester haters. I remember hacks first season people wanted to run him out of town too.

 

[GoSU96]

He will be on an uber hot seat? Who Coyle? I highly doubt it, you are being over the top here. Coyle was brought in to clean up the mess that Gross left behind, full of over overspending, poor planning and hires and bad decisions. He's not on any hot seat with regard to Scott Shafer, he just isn't, If he fires, extends or gives one more year. He has plenty of time to clean up.

This

 

[Deano]

I wouldn't mind seeing Daoust ending up DC though. I'd rather keep him and get rid of Bulkough if we are to lose Daoust.

*****THIS******

 

[cuse309]

Matt Campbell of Toledo. Young up and comer with a good record with sub par talent. If anyone thinks SU will shell out money for a 'Big Name" coach, you're dreaming. Never have done it, and never will. Doesn't matter if you'd like to admit it or not, but SU is not a dream job for anyone (except Marrone). We have been relegated to a "Stepping stone" school. We are nothing more than a layover for someone traveling from Toledo to Florida.
Bo Pellini? Really? He had the talent that we've been dying for, and he didn't produce the results. He won games, but was greatly seen as an underachiever. Has Youngstown State off to a 3-3 record.