How Hot is Babers' Seat?

[tep624]

Shafer didn't do the type of damage that GRob did - hell most people with no history of coaching at any level could accomplish that in 4 years. He did have 1 winning season and a did win a bowl. And he did recruit some quality players into the program.

On a whole though, his tenure did more damage than good. He effectively utilized what Marrone left behind to put that one winning season together and did not effectively replenish the program's talent, especially at positions that Marrone left weak - QB and O line. You want to give him the benefit of the doubt as a new HC, but looking back now, I sincerely question a number of his coaching hires and also their recruiting strategy and the sense of urgency with which his staff recruited.

 

[SoBristol]

HCDB's system is now a proven system. Though the Orange have not racked up wins, there is a basis for reason and hope the team is headed in the right direction.

...
It is likely that had Dungey not been injured, we would have two more wins and a bowl game.
It is likely that if we had depth, we would have won at least two more games.
...

I agree with the preponderance of your points, but in fairness, you can offer up similar excuses for Shafer in 2014 (Hunt went out early, nothing behind him at QB -- not a single reserve QB had any experience; not much depth) and again in 2015 (Hunt was injured, other QBs injured, Dungey pushed into action as true frosh & injured, walk-on QB played; true frosh at RB; defense was the youngest in the past decade).

The case for Babers comes back to two exciting upsets, the close losses in October, and very promising recruiting, better each cycle. And he is the ideal personality to lead our program. It is a strong case.

 

[Fjoinkay]

Where are they? I know some people still like Shaf and respect the guy, but I haven't seen anyone asking for the AD to show Babers the door. Some are more cautiously optimistic, which being a Cuse fan for the last 20 years is fair. In any event there was no reason to try to instigate "Shafer people". Everyone seems on board with Babers. He's the best this school can dream to have right now. As others have also mentioned, the coaching turnover has been brutal.

True dat! Stop making sense! It’s a buzz kill for so many obsessions.

 

[Orangepace]

I liked Shafer as a person... until he smoked a cigar walking down the Dome stairs after the Middle Tennessee game. That's when I lost what remaining shred of respect I had for Shafer the football coach and person. Unclassy, like most of his tenure on Syracuse's sideline.

 

[Fjoinkay]

I liked Shafer as a person... until he smoked a cigar walking down the Dome stairs after the Middle Tennessee game. That's when I lost what remaining shred of respect I had for Shafer the football coach and person. Unclassy, like most of his tenure on Syracuse's sideline.

He’s been gone for over two years. He was fired. Onward! Go Cuse!!

 

[orange_in_VA]

I liked Shafer as a person... until he smoked a cigar walking down the Dome stairs after the Middle Tennessee game. That's when I lost what remaining shred of respect I had for Shafer the football coach and person. Unclassy, like most of his tenure on Syracuse's sideline.

No one would have even known he was smoking his victory cigar if Bailey wasn't creeping in the stairwell. It's a non-issue for me. The guy loved Syracuse and worked his butt off for SU. It didn't work out, but I have no ill-will towards Shafer.

 

[OrangeDW]

No one would have even known he was smoking his victory cigar if Bailey wasn't creeping in the stairwell. It's a non-issue for me. The guy loved Syracuse and worked his butt off for SU. It didn't work out, but I have no ill-will towards Shafer.

His team was taking dives left and right though. I have no respect for that. Play the game.

 

[orange_in_VA]

His team was taking dives left and right though. I have no respect for that. Play the game.

It's not "his" team. Their strategy, while possibly morally wrong is not breaking any rules. Every coach does what they can to win. *shrugs*

As Cuse fans, we obviously have a more emotional reaction to it for multiple reasons. The big one being that we lost.

 

[OrangeDW]

It's not "his" team. Their strategy, while possibly morally wrong is not breaking any rules. Every coach does what they can to win. *shrugs*

As Cuse fans, we obviously have a more emotional reaction to it for multiple reasons. The big one being that we lost.

Breaking no rules...fine. I didn’t say he was. I just said I don’t respect it or him. And it was his defense.

 

[bnoro]

No one would have even known he was smoking his victory cigar if Bailey wasn't creeping in the stairwell. It's a non-issue for me. The guy loved Syracuse and worked his butt off for SU. It didn't work out, but I have no ill-will towards Shafer.

I lost respect for him when he screamed across the field at Dabo. I lost more respect when he got Dungey injured keeping in the game down 4 scores against Llvll. I lost all respect after MTSU. Screw him.

Don't blame Stephen Bailey for Shafer not being classy in victory. He could have smoked that cigar at home.

 

[cuseincincy]

 

[All4SU]

 

[MSOrange]

I lost respect for him when he screamed across the field at Dabo. I lost more respect when he got Dungey injured keeping in the game down 4 scores against Llvll. I lost all respect after MTSU. Screw him.

Don't blame Stephen Bailey for Shafer not being classy in victory. He could have smoked that cigar at home.

Exactly- now we blame Bailey for that?

 

[orange_in_VA]

I lost respect for him when he screamed across the field at Dabo. I lost more respect when he got Dungey injured keeping in the game down 4 scores against Llvll. I lost all respect after MTSU. Screw him.

Don't blame Stephen Bailey for Shafer not being classy in victory. He could have smoked that cigar at home.

Where did I blame Stephen Bailey for anything Shafer did? I stated that no one would have even known about it unless he snuck that picture of Shafer in a stairwell. I get it's Bailey's job to stir up emotions for his page clicks and comments. Not gonna get upset over it. Shafer had plenty of reasons to want to win that game. If we won the game like we were supposed to, his cigar stays in his pocket.

What I'm saying is that a lot of folks here act like Shafer walked out to mid-field and blew a cloud of cigar smoke into Floyd Little's face and stomped out the ashes on Ernie Davis's name. You all hate Shafer for being emotional and then go on emotional rants about how much you dislike him. It's ridiculous how much people want to hate the guy so much. I don't understand the point of hating someone who tried to do what he thought was best for the team/community we love. I just don't carry that hatred in my heart.

 

[Fjoinkay]

Where did I blame Stephen Bailey for anything Shafer did? I stated that no one would have even known about it unless he snuck that picture of Shafer in a stairwell. I get it's Bailey's job to stir up emotions for his page clicks and comments. Not gonna get upset over it. Shafer had plenty of reasons to want to win that game. If we won the game like we were supposed to, his cigar stays in his pocket.

What I'm saying is that a lot of folks here act like Shafer walked out to mid-field and blew a cloud of cigar smoke into Floyd Little's face and stomped out the ashes on Ernie Davis's name. You all hate Shafer for being emotional and then go on emotional rants about how much you dislike him. It's ridiculous how much people want to hate the guy so much. I don't understand the point of hating someone who tried to do what he thought was best for the team/community we love. I just don't carry that hatred in my heart.

More common sense! Stop it!! Go Cuse!!

 

[orange79]

lol - if only there were a thread (or 20) where we could bemoan/deify a coach who hasn't been here for two years instead of hijacking a guest's (albeit slightly silly) post...

And to answer the OP's last question, getting to 6 while losing to UNC (which I don't think we will do) will be tough, but certainly not impossible. An upset of one of the A teams on the schedule would make it much easier, but since we've done that in each of DB's seasons here (VT, Clemson) so we can just assume that happens (the trend line cannot be denied ). We have to go at least 4-2 at home (given the OP's assumption we lose to UNC), split on the road with Pitt/Wake, and based on my (probably ridiculous) assumption above, win one of ND/FSU/Clemson. Barring the big upset (and assuming 3-1 OOC), it means beating L'ville and NC St at home, along with beating one of BC/Pitt/Wake on the road (bearing in mind we have one 1 conference road game in the last two years).

So, impossible? Absolutely not. Difficult? Yes. We need to beat the beatable teams on the schedule. UNC is one of those.

 

[SWC75]

We are a fanbase that has coaching-change fatigue.

We have a head coach that appears competent to most and puts a good face out there for the program.

Recruiting seems to be going well.

In my opinion, his seat should be warm if he has another 4-8 season. His seat should be hot if we don't go to a bowl by year 4.

If we fire the coach after 3-4 years again and start all over again with a new staff, an abbreviated recruiting year, the exodus of players recruited by the old staff, etc. for the 5th time in in a decade and a half, we will be ACC bottom feeders for years to come. We have got to give a coach a chance to build the program barring a total disaster and then hope that he doesn't do such a good job of it that he leaves before the job is done. Another losing season would be frustrating but unless things completely fall apart, I don't see Wildhack searching for anyone new for a couple of years at least. And I do expect to see continued progress which will eliminate the need for such a decision.

 

[SoBristol]

...I don't see Wildhack searching for anyone new for a couple of years at least. And I do expect to see continued progress which will eliminate the need for such a decision.

Yes. Can already look at the roster (including the commits) and see the 2018 team has more talent among the underclassmen (Babers' recruits), and better depth, than SU has had in many seasons. That is the progress that Wildhack will evaluate.

 

[UnknownOrange]

Honestly I think something that can bode well for HCDB is that ADJW has never been an AD before. I'm not saying he's inexperienced or anything like that but he's never hired a football coach/staff. He doesn't have "his guys" out there somewhere.

Maybe he made a relationship with some coaches but not like other ADs have.

 

[Millhouse]

chip thinks babers has a hot seat but doesn't think he is on the hot seat

 

[HtownOrange]

We need to beat the beatable teams on the schedule.

Says it all.

 

[kcsu]

Dino isnt going to be let go. He might leave but the wildhack knows he has a good coach and staff

 

[DeGrozz]

If we fire the coach after 3-4 years again and start all over again with a new staff, an abbreviated recruiting year, the exodus of players recruited by the old staff, etc. for the 5th time in in a decade and a half, we will be ACC bottom feeders for years to come. We have got to give a coach a chance to build the program barring a total disaster and then hope that he doesn't do such a good job of it that he leaves before the job is done. Another losing season would be frustrating but unless things completely fall apart, I don't see Wildhack searching for anyone new for a couple of years at least. And I do expect to see continued progress which will eliminate the need for such a decision.

I absolutely agree with you about expecting Babers to eliminate any of this talk over the next few seasons.

 

[Fjoinkay]

lol - if only there were a thread (or 20) where we could bemoan/deify a coach who hasn't been here for two years instead of hijacking a guest's (albeit slightly silly) post...

And to answer the OP's last question, getting to 6 while losing to UNC (which I don't think we will do) will be tough, but certainly not impossible. An upset of one of the A teams on the schedule would make it much easier, but since we've done that in each of DB's seasons here (VT, Clemson) so we can just assume that happens (the trend line cannot be denied ). We have to go at least 4-2 at home (given the OP's assumption we lose to UNC), split on the road with Pitt/Wake, and based on my (probably ridiculous) assumption above, win one of ND/FSU/Clemson. Barring the big upset (and assuming 3-1 OOC), it means beating L'ville and NC St at home, along with beating one of BC/Pitt/Wake on the road (bearing in mind we have one 1 conference road game in the last two years).

So, impossible? Absolutely not. Difficult? Yes. We need to beat the beatable teams on the schedule. UNC is one of those.

Deify? I agree about the more than 2 years of obsession, which is why I have not read this entire thread and am not sure if anyone posted any comments here that deify anyone. Over the past two years, however, I haven’t seen many posts, if any at all, on the deification side of the ledger. Point being that just about everyone who reads this board regularly wants SU football to succeed. We will all be happy if a year from now SU has a winning record and/or goes bowling at 6-6.

If that happens, and I definitely hope it does, I think its a safe bet that some people who post here will continue to look backwards and throw shade. Thats fine. Personally I will be so happy for the student athletes and the current coaches and admins that I’ll just laugh, as I do now. It took Mac 5 years. I think any coach deserves at least 4 and probably 5 years here with SU in the ACC. If things turn around next year great. Either way, I won’t question this staff until the end of season 4 or perhaps even season 5. Go Cuse!!

Aditionally, some of the shade being thrown knows no bounds. Reasonable people can disagree about some of the details surrounding what happened here 5 years ago etc. But those disagreements say nothing about the desire to see SU succeed. And most people here rarely rehash those opinions.

 

[nzm136]

Shafer didn't do the type of damage that GRob did - hell most people with no history of coaching at any level could accomplish that in 4 years. He did have 1 winning season and a did win a bowl. And he did recruit some quality players into the program.

On a whole though, his tenure did more damage than good. He effectively utilized what Marrone left behind to put that one winning season together and did not effectively replenish the program's talent, especially at positions that Marrone left weak - QB and O line. You want to give him the benefit of the doubt as a new HC, but looking back now, I sincerely question a number of his coaching hires and also their recruiting strategy and the sense of urgency with which his staff recruited.

I'm not sure about the coaching hires. Yes, our assistant coaches were weak, which showed on the field. But what could he have realistically done differently?