Hypothetical

[IthacaMatt]

But... Bubble, bubble, bubble, bubble... and middle of the league pack in each year. That's not 'super' safe.

Well, let's say that if this is the transition out of Boeheim, it's not bad because you hope you're building something up. It's not a guy who is already in the Hall of Fame.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'm excited for Dior and hope he doesn't make the jump to the NBA. But for the last few years, it's been all about sanctions rather than players, which the players we get comes directly from the sanctions. With sanctions being cleared, how long do we use the sanction excuse?

No, it's also about the drop off in recruiting and the lack of an obvious succession plan for a guy in his mid-70s. We're getting absolutely killed in recruiting compared to what we are used to.
If Boeheim was 55, this wouldn't be an issue right now. We bounced back just fine before, back in the 90s.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Firing and hiring a string of coaches chasing the glory days is a not a very attractive strategy. No sense chasing the likely unobtainable.

The new reality is here. Fans will show up or they won’t. The University doesn’t have to have 25k average attendance.

I’m glad you’re not the athletic director.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Has Lville been hit with sanctions from strippergate or are we still waiting? If their sanctions are over, they are doing pretty well for themselves.

They said Goodbye to Crum, and got over it. They said Goodbye to Pitino, and got over it. They're not rocket surgeons down there. It's not necessarily that hard. Great fanbase, great arena, great history -> probable continuity.

 

[Brooky03]

When do you tell the new coach that he's going to be hammered with 4 years worth of sanctions: before or after he's hired?

shhh, they never happened

 

[cuseguy]

JB deserves the utmost respect, but if this was Kentucky or Duke or Kansas, he’d be asked to step down.

They wouldn’t settle for a run of mediocrity. And by our standards, that’s what this is.

Ask Tubby Smith from his years at Kentucky.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

JB deserves the utmost respect, but if this was Kentucky or Duke or Kansas, he’d be asked to step down.

They wouldn’t settle for a run of mediocrity. And by our standards, that’s what this is.

Ask Tubby Smith from his years at Kentucky.

If this was Kentucky or Duke or Kansas, there would never have been any sanctions.

Hell, the NCAA would have probably written Fab's paper for him.

 

[cuseattle]

Ben Howland got run out of LA and he had two F4s. Kevin Ollie won a title (and maybe kinda cheated a lil bit). Indiana ran Crean out the door after he turned their program around and had three sweet 16s, including a #1 seed (lol).

I think Howland had 3 final fours. UCLA made a mistake firing him because they didn't like his style of play. Now they have Cronin with just as ugly a brand of basketball.

 

[Townie72]

I’m just trying to help some of you guys get off the little Fantasy Islands you’ve constructed. These are the spots where Boeheim is somehow the problem and his presence is keeping SU from hiring the latest wonder worker who would put SU at the top of the ACC.

That you have converted this wishful thinking into what you think is reality doesn’t make it so.

The world of college basketball has changed for the teams below the handful of elite programs. There’s more balance and parity now. Three of the four traditional Big East powers (SU, Georgetown and UConn) aren’t anywhere near what they once were.

In the Washington Post this morning there’s an article about the “fearsome EasternTriangle” of the Big Ten which includes Penn State and Rutgers. A team from the old Southwest Conference is near the top of the rankings. Seton Hall and even Providence are good.

SU’s rise from Regional “factor” was powered by three things. The miracle of the Big East, the ESPN show casing of SU and the coaching genius of Boeheim. Some might throw the use of the football stadium as a basketball venue in to the mix.

The Big East is a shadow of its former self and there are now dozens of games on, not just a few. Kids in California aren’t rushing home after school to watch SU vs St John’s like they did decades ago.

The next coach will have a huge hill to climb if the expectation is to compete at the top of the ACC. He will be given a very long time to do what he can, because the University won’t be completely sure what is possible.

 

[Townie72]

I’m glad you’re not the athletic director.

You aren’t either.

And what you think the goals for the program are or should be may not be shared with an Administration that is charged with making these decisions. They have to consider what can reasonably be achieved.

 

[Townie72]

JB deserves the utmost respect, but if this was Kentucky or Duke or Kansas, he’d be asked to step down.

They wouldn’t settle for a run of mediocrity. And by our standards, that’s what this is.

Ask Tubby Smith from his years at Kentucky.

What are “the standards”?

Not yours, but the University’s?

 

[cuseguy]

You aren’t either.

And what you think the goals for the program are or should be may not be shared with an Administration that is charged with making these decisions. They have to consider what can reasonably be achieved.

Too early to say, but a smaller basketball facility might be necessary down the road. It’ll be odd playing in the Dome with smallish crowds.

 

[Townie72]

No, it's also about the drop off in recruiting and the lack of an obvious succession plan for a guy in his mid-70s. We're getting absolutely killed in recruiting compared to what we are used to.
If Boeheim was 55, this wouldn't be an issue right now. We bounced back just fine before, back in the 90s.

Setting aside sanctions and JBs age, could any of this recruiting drop-off be due to the rise of all sorts of other programs, each with their own set of benefits and strengths to recruits.

 

[cuseguy]

What are “the standards”?

Not yours, but the University’s?

I’m sure their standards are higher than you think. Making the NCAA tourney would be a start. That might not be a sure thing in the coming years.

 

[Townie72]

They said Goodbye to Crum, and got over it. They said Goodbye to Pitino, and got over it. They're not rocket surgeons down there. It's not necessarily that hard. Great fanbase, great arena, great history -> probably continuity.

Sort of like Indiana?

The fan base, arena and history doesn’t seem to be working as well as it once did?

Continuity? Sure, that’s reasonable. We should be able to stay in the middle of the ACC pack. But, I don’t think that’s what you are interested in. You want resurgence. Right?

My opinion is that whoever we get in here next will not be as good or as successful as Boeheim. Some of that is coaching skill and some of it will be due to changing circumstance.

I wish it would not be so, but if I were to bet, that’s what I would bet on.

 

[Townie72]

I’m sure their standards are higher than you think. Making the NCAA tourney would be a start. That might not be a sure thing in the coming years.

I don’t have standards. I’m an alum. I’ll always root for any SU team in any sport.

The University, I believe, will have to have realistic standards. What I have observed in watching SU for many decades is that they give coaches a lot of rope and a long time. The exception to that was the firing of Pasqualoni and that didn’t work out real well.

SU once was a dominant Lacrosse power. We aren’t anymore. Desko still has his job.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Sort of like Indiana?

The fan base, arena and history doesn’t seem to be working as well as it once did?

Continuity? Sure, that’s reasonable. We should be able to stay in the middle of the ACC pack. But, I don’t think that’s what you are interested in. You want resurgence. Right?

My opinion is that whoever we get in here next will not be as good or as successful as Boeheim. Some of that is coaching skill and some of it will be due to changing circumstance.

I wish it would not be so, but if I were to bet, that’s what I would bet on.

Just curious because at this point I don’t think you even watch the actual basketball games. Any thoughts about the team we have out there on the floor?

 

[Townie72]

Just curious because at this point I don’t think you even watch the actual basketball games. Any thoughts about the team we have out there on the floor?

I make an attempt to stay on the track of the original post when I voice an opinion.

You, apparently, want to change the subject.

Is it because this program strategy stuff confuses you?

 

[NineOneSeven]

I make an attempt to stay on the track of the original post when I voice an opinion.

You, apparently, want to change the subject.

Is it because this program strategy stuff confuses you?

You voice an opinion when your boeheim senses start tingling.

My question is genuine. Do you watch the basketball games? I rarely see any actual analysis or game thoughts from you so the obvious conclusion I come to is you don’t. Which could be wrong, hence my question.

 

[cuseguy]

Setting aside sanctions and JBs age, could any of this recruiting drop-off be due to the rise of all sorts of other programs, each with their own set of benefits and strengths to recruits.

Can argue that leaving the Big East has hurt recruiting. It’s a big reason why UConn decided to rejoin.

And it’s not like any of our recruiting rivals have upgraded their facilities. If anything, it’s simply that that they’ve hired new, young coaches who have brought renewed energy to their programs. Or it’s simply just coaches like Jay Wright who caught up to SU and then passed us by.

 

[Townie72]

You voice an opinion when your boeheim senses start tingling.

My question is genuine. Do you watch the basketball games? I rarely see any actual analysis or game thoughts from you so the obvious conclusion I come to is you don’t. Which could be wrong, hence my question.

I have no intention of defending or explaining what I find interesting or what I decide to post to you. That ought to be evident and if it’s not. That’s your problem.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I have no intention of defending or explaining what I find interesting or what I decide to post to you. That ought to be evident and if it’s not. That’s your problem.

So no. Fair enough. Thanks.

 

[Townie72]

Can argue that leaving the Big East has hurt recruiting. It’s a big reason why UConn decided to rejoin.

And it’s not like any of our recruiting rivals have upgraded their facilities. If anything, it’s simply that that they’ve hired new, young coaches who have brought renewed energy to their programs. Or it’s simply just coaches like Jay Wright who caught up to SU and then passed us by.

Coaches is not the only reason and may not be the most important one.

Jay Wright is an exceptional case.

There are just more good places for kids to go and play these days.

 

[cuseguy]

I don’t have standards. I’m an alum. I’ll always root for any SU team in any sport.

The University, I believe, will have to have realistic standards. What I have observed in watching SU for many decades is that they give coaches a lot of rope and a long time. The exception to that was the firing of Pasqualoni and that didn’t work out real well.

SU once was a dominant Lacrosse power. We aren’t anymore. Desko still has his job.

Desko is a good example. But it’s clear he’s facing pressure. That’s why SU hired March. Desko is neaing retirement age and likely has a year or two to get back to the Final 4. He knows that.

 

[cuseguy]

Coaches is not the only reason and may not be the most important one.

Jay Wright is an exceptional case.

There are just more good places for kids to go and play these days.

So if that’s true, why are many of the traditional powerhouse schools still sitting atop the basketball world? They seem to still be good places to go. The programs that moved past SU have become better because they hired younger, energetic coaches with fresh approaches and a knack for recruiting.

It happens.