I love JB and it's why this year has to be it

[Millhouse]

He's earned the right to go out on his own terms and a couple bad years won't kill us.

But it's time. Maybe future coaches aren't better than this but he is. Julie has to know it. Enough.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Agree completely. And quite frankly, the AD's office should announce it and give him a final farewell tour. Otherwise the Dome is going to be half empty for a lot of games this year. He deserves to be recognized for the entirety of his career, not just the end.

 

[FrancoPizza]

He's earned the right to go out on his own terms and a couple bad years won't kill us.

But it's time. Maybe future coaches aren't better than this but he is. Julie has to know it. Enough.

Two more years apparently. No idea if that's in writing or just a handshake agreement. But if he's just 'whatever' after losing to Colgate there's nothing to suggest he'll suddenly wake up one morning and think otherwise, even if this another losing season.

 

[Scooch]

I agree, and he's had loads of time to go out on his own terms. I don't know if it's possible, but someone has to convince him that the end is here.

 

[RF2044]

He's earned the right to go out on his own terms and a couple bad years won't kill us.

But it's time. Maybe future coaches aren't better than this but he is. Julie has to know it. Enough.

Sorry, I don't agree with your first sentence. He'd EARNED the right to go out on his own terms, but that latitude has eroded over what is now a 9 year decline in program performance.

Program performance seemed like it bottomed out last year, but that low threshold might be exceeded this year, if last night is any indication.

If we were winning at a reasonable rate, I'd be right there with you. But the cracks in the foundation were evident years ago, and they've gotten worse as the dam has begun to sprout leaks. Whatever rope JB had earned previously is at an end now. He shouldn't be allowed to flounder in perpetuity while the program withers on the vine.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Just take a look ahead to see what next year looks like. No Jesse, no Joe and no Symir. There is no one coming in to add to this group. It will be even worse next year. JB continues to blow smoke up people’s butt to hype up his program. Every season it’s “the best shooting class we’ve ever had, “the best freshman class ever”, “the deepest team we’ve ever had”, etc, etc., etc. It’s all a way to create interest for a dying product. This staff can’t recruit since Hop left. It’s become a joke on the recruiting circuit.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

When you go on probation twice, you lose the right to go out on your own terms. He was set to retire years ago. That should never have been allowed to change.

 

[Orangezoo]

Sorry, I don't agree with your first sentence. He'd EARNED the right to go out on his own terms, but that latitude has eroded over what is now a 9 year decline in program performance.

Program performance seemed like it bottomed out last year, but that low threshold might be exceeded this year, if last night is any indication.

If we were winning at a reasonable rate, I'd be right there with you. But the cracks in the foundation were evident years ago, and they've gotten worse as the dam has begun to sprout leaks. Whatever rope JB had earned previously is at an end now. He shouldn't be allowed to flounder in perpetuity while the program withers on the vine.

Now just imagine if our guys hadn't had squeaked out tourney wins in 18 and 21. 16 was the final carryover of success. Those two bubble runs kicked the can down the road. Too much emphasis has been placed on those runs as a point to our relevance and JBs sharpness.

 

[RF2044]

Now just imagine if our guys hadn't had squeaked out tourney wins in 18 and 21. 16 was the final carryover of success. Those two bubble runs kicked the can down the road. Too much emphasis has been placed on those runs as a point to our relevance and JBs sharpness.

Agree 144% *

There have been several seasons where he's gotten lucky, or done just enough to stave off the pitchforks.

Examples of the former were self-imposing a ban in 2015 season, and the 2020 season getting cancelled during the postseason when we weren't going to make the NCAA tournament anyway either year.

And then having positive finishes in 2016 [unexpected F4 run] when it seemed like we wouldn't earn an NCAA bid after losing to Pitt in the 1st round of ACCT, knocking off a highly rated #3 seed in 2018 when it looked like we were relegated to the "first four" and barely made the tournament, and Buddy getting blistering hot at the right time in the 2021 postseason, enabling us to score a few wins that got us into the NCAA tournament, where we knocked off WVU.

The picture looks a lot more bleak without those late season runs, and without a couple of extra NIT appearances marring the resume.



* Footnote / citations to 721Comstock

 

[chugg21]

Just take a look ahead to see what next year looks like. No Jesse, no Joe and no Symir. There is no one coming in to add to this group. It will be even worse next year. JB continues to blow smoke up people’s butt to hype up his program. Every season it’s “the best shooting class we’ve ever had, “the best freshman class ever”, “the deepest team we’ve ever had”, etc, etc., etc. It’s all a way to create interest for a dying product. This staff can’t recruit since Hop left. It’s become a joke on the recruiting circuit.

This is terrifying. Signing 0 guys during the early signing period is kind of hilarious...in a very sad way. This roster without those 3 is not going to look pretty though I'm sure there will be someone in the portal not getting enough playing time in the Patriot league that we have a connection to and can bring in.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

I'm still excited to see what happens with this team, but it looks like my worst fears for JB and SU basketball are coming to pass.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

He's earned the right to go out on his own terms and a couple bad years won't kill us.

But it's time. Maybe future coaches aren't better than this but he is. Julie has to know it. Enough.

Not sure the let JAB coach another year crowd have any members left in it. Unless the team shows more during the OOC games, this could be the winter of discontent. And we know how ugly upstate NY people can be.

 

[Ozone!]

When you have a year to prepare for a team and still get the same results, a significant loss and your not playing one of the perennial top teams in the country it’s time to retire! Sure, he will win some games this year and yes you can build a quality team from the portal but inability to change is a signal of the end of the line!
Yes Syracuse owes him gratitude but not subservience!

 

[kcsu]

If I'm JW. Coach this is your last year and if so Red and Gmac will be strongly considered. In the event you decide to continue i will shift my focus to a completely new direction. Your call Jim

 

[Millhouse]

Sorry, I don't agree with your first sentence. He'd EARNED the right to go out on his own terms, but that latitude has eroded over what is now a 9 year decline in program performance.

Program performance seemed like it bottomed out last year, but that low threshold might be exceeded this year, if last night is any indication.

If we were winning at a reasonable rate, I'd be right there with you. But the cracks in the foundation were evident years ago, and they've gotten worse as the dam has begun to sprout leaks. Whatever rope JB had earned previously is at an end now. He shouldn't be allowed to flounder in perpetuity while the program withers on the vine.

you can decline without having bad years. I agree it's been a long decline that started when he was already an old man

let's call bad under .500.

 

[chugg21]

Not sure the let JAB coach another year crowd have any members left in it. Unless the team shows more during the OOC games, this could be the winter of discontent. And we know how ugly upstate NY people can be.

Don't worry, they'll come take a victory lap after we beat Northeastern by 4.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm still excited to see what happens with this team, but it looks like my worst fears for JB and SU basketball are coming to pass.

I have never cared what people say about this but his zone encourages teams to miss open threes and now shooting is way better so it doesn't work.

it was great for a long time, he has an incredible innate knowledge of probabilities, but other teams can shoot and it's too hard for us to find guards tall enough to defend the zone, fast enough to get by anyone, and skilled enough to shoot. you can get 2 out of the 3. 3 out of 3 is a 5 star unicorn.

when everyone was bad at shooting, 2 out of 3 was fine.

 

[supp]

He's earned the right to go out on his own terms and a couple bad years won't kill us.

But it's time. Maybe future coaches aren't better than this but he is. Julie has to know it. Enough.

Maybe that's why they moved to Skaneateles so Julie doesn't have to hear the grumbling in the Fayetteville Wegman's. Super-rich people have better things to do. I don't think she's going to put any pressure on him to quit. I'm sure she's cheering him on to keep collecting the checks and stay out of her hair for 6 months out of the year. Maybe his kids could convince him. I don't know. I don't see him walking away voluntarily without a major health scare (God forbid).

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I have never cared what people say about this but his zone encourages teams to miss open threes and now shooting is way better so it doesn't work.

it was great for a long time, he has an incredible innate knowledge of probabilities, but other teams can shoot and it's too hard for us to find guards tall enough to defend the zone, fast enough to get by anyone, and skilled enough to shoot. you can get 2 out of the 3. 3 out of 3 is a 5 star unicorn.

when everyone was bad at shooting, 2 out of 3 was fine.

That's a pretty good way to put it.

 

[Millhouse]

Maybe that's why they moved to Skaneateles so Julie doesn't have to hear the grumbling in the Fayetteville Wegman's. Super-rich people have better things to do. I don't think she's going to put any pressure on him to quit. I'm sure she's cheering him on to keep collecting the checks and stay out of her hair for 6 months out of the year. Maybe his kids could convince him. I don't know. I don't see him walking way voluntarily without a major health scare (God forbid).

that's pretty rough to say. they already have so much money and it's not like they're crazy spenders. the next checks don't matter at all

 

[RF2044]

you can decline without having bad years. I agree it's been a long decline that started when he was already an old man

let's call bad under .500.

I think that's fair -- not sure we'd have the same grumbling if we were winning, say, 22 games every year and safely in the NCAA tournament as a mid-tier seed. Under such circumstances, the program would be doing reasonably well, and an internal handoff would make sense.

Instead, we've declined substantially. I don't see the line of demarcation as being .500 -- I think it needs to be set as NCAA tournament appearance as a minimum threshold. You can also apply winning percentage to the equation. On both measures, we've tailed off substantially.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I think that's fair -- not sure we'd have the same grumbling if we were winning, say, 22 games every year and safely in the NCAA tournament as a mid-tier seed. Under such circumstances, the program would be doing reasonably well, and an internal handoff would make sense.

Instead, we've declined substantially. I don't see the line of demarcation as being .500 -- I think it needs to be set as NCAA tournament appearance as a minimum threshold. You can also apply winning percentage to the equation. On both measures, we've tailed off substantially.

And we have had the pleasure of seeing winning teams for decades that so many teams never get to experience with said regularity. But when you look at the winning % over the last two decades, it's pretty clear.

 

[kcsu]

I love my Daughters and family. I dont love JB.

 

[RF2044]

And we have had the pleasure of seeing winning teams for decades that so many teams never get to experience with said regularity. But when you look at the winning % over the last two decades, it's pretty clear.

View attachment 222216

This is order of magnitude, so don't kill me if the # is slightly off.

But I saw a stat that indicated that over the first 38 years of JB's career at SU, his teams won 76% of their games.

Over the last 8 years [not including this year], that winning percentage had dipped to 59%.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think that's fair -- not sure we'd have the same grumbling if we were winning, say, 22 games every year and safely in the NCAA tournament as a mid-tier seed. Under such circumstances, the program would be doing reasonably well, and an internal handoff would make sense.

Instead, we've declined substantially. I don't see the line of demarcation as being .500 -- I think it needs to be set as NCAA tournament appearance as a minimum threshold. You can also apply winning percentage to the equation. On both measures, we've tailed off substantially.

Regular season 20 Ws is probably enough. That means at worst 20-11 and on the bubble. In the last 8 seasons we have hit that 20 W mark ZERO times. From 1999-2000 through 2013-14 guess how many times we failed to get 20 Ws? TWO times and both were 19 Ws.