In 2015

[TheCusian]

Pfft. We have 85 kids. We have about 20 new ones each year. How do you account for all those opinions? You say the captains maybe designs them? They get offered multiple designs and pick the ones they like? Nobody lets kids decide. And I don't think OPa is saying he himself gets a vote or say.

Cmon. You read the article where Nike sat down with the captains from the 2013 team to get their opinion, right?

 

[TheCusian]

Yea, let's keep promoting recruiting violations. You keep promoting the wrong thing too. It's not whether a kid says they like the uni or not (they'll never say they don't). The right question is do you like A, B or C. No recruit has ever been given choices.

1st of all - wasn't my question.

2nd - they are given choices - they have all of the photos from their visits in different teams uni's and watch the teams that are recruiting them.

3rd - if that's a recruiting violation that actually gets the school in trouble, the NCAA better hire a million people to prosecute all of the thousands of daily "violations" by every school in D1.

 

[OrangePA]

Yea - but when they think of them from when they were kids they think of Colts and Eagles uni's.

You seem to make a lot of presumptions about what big time college athletes think or what motivates them. I obviously don't know your knowledge base, but I believe your conclusions are inaccurate.

Based upon my conversations with a number of ex-players, it has become pretty clear to me that when it comes to athletes that the Syracuse University Football Program recruits, the primary motivation in selecting a school is one thing - getting to the NFL.

The typical athlete will choose a school that will enhance his ability to get to the next level. The success of the program - the access to TV - the access to bowl games - the access to scouts - the profile of the program - the training facilities - the style of play coached by the staff. These are the factors that the player considers - because it is those factors that impact his ability to get a pro contract.

One would hope that academics would play a role in the selection process, and though it might play a role in some instances, the driving force in the selection process is one thing - getting to the NFL.

The type of uniform that the player might wear has nothing - nothing - to do with the decision as to where to play.

Will athletes crow about uniforms on social networks? Sure.

Will players get a kick out of uniforms that are new or different? Sure.

I strongly suspect that if the Orange were to take the field next fall for the home opener wearing the Coach Mac uniforms - something new for many or most of them - they would be very excited.

They are kids - of course new excites them - of course in the moment they get a kick out of style.

The fact remains, however, that the uniform is the school's brand - it is not the kids' brand.

Schools like Texas, USC, Penn State, Oklahoma, Alabama, USC and Auburn do not mess with their brands.

And the notion that we are not one of those schools is silly. We have a proud tradition. We have an amazing football legacy. The best players to ever play the game played for Syracuse University - and that includes guys like Marvin Harrison and Dwight Freeney and Donovan McNabb.

And if the school feels that we need gimmicks to draw kids, it is discounting the legacy, and is in effect telling kids that we are not worthy of being compared to USC or Texas or Penn State.

I am amazed when posters on this board say things like "we are not USC"

.

We compete at the same level. We produce players. We have won a lot of games and we play to win the national championship. We are a major program that should present itself as a major program.

We should never present ourselves or think of ourselves as anything less than our competition.

You become what you think you are. If you think you are a clown program that needs clown uniforms - than that's what you are. I have no interest in being a clown program - just to get some kid excited for five minutes.

As far as I'm concerned, Syracuse University is a cornerstone program that is worth of putting itself in the same company as Texas, Auburn and the rest.

 

[Scotty44]

I am amazed when posters on this board say things like "we are not USC"

.

We compete at the same level. We produce players. We have won a lot of games and we play to win the national championship. We are a major program that should present itself as a major program..

Maybe many years ago, but times have changed. We do not compete at the same level as USC. That's like saying DePaul basketball competes at the same level as Kentucky basketball. Maybe one time many many years ago that is true, in this modern era it just isn't the case.

 

[TheCusian]

You seem to make a lot of presumptions about what big time college athletes think or what motivates them. I obviously don't know your knowledge base, but I believe your conclusions are inaccurate.

Based upon my conversations with a number of ex-players, it has become pretty clear to me that when it comes to athletes that the Syracuse University Football Program recruits, the primary motivation in selecting a school is one thing - getting to the NFL.

The typical athlete will choose a school that will enhance his ability to get to the next level. The success of the program - the access to TV - the access to bowl games - the access to scouts - the profile of the program - the training facilities - the style of play coached by the staff. These are the factors that the player considers - because it is those factors that impact his ability to get a pro contract.

One would hope that academics would play a role in the selection process, and though it might play a role in some instances, the driving force in the selection process is one thing - getting to the NFL.

The type of uniform that the player might wear has nothing - nothing - to do with the decision as to where to play.

Will athletes crow about uniforms on social networks? Sure.

Will players get a kick out of uniforms that are new or different? Sure.

I strongly suspect that if the Orange were to take the field next fall for the home opener wearing the Coach Mac uniforms - something new for many or most of them - they would be very excited.

They are kids - of course new excites them - of course in the moment they get a kick out of style.

The fact remains, however, that the uniform is the school's brand - it is not the kids' brand.

Schools like Texas, USC, Penn State, Oklahoma, Alabama, USC and Auburn do not mess with their brands.

And the notion that we are not one of those schools is silly. We have a proud tradition. We have an amazing football legacy. The best players to ever play the game played for Syracuse University - and that includes guys like Marvin Harrison and Dwight Freeney and Donovan McNabb.

And if the school feels that we need gimmicks to draw kids, it is discounting the legacy, and is in effect telling kids that we are not worthy of being compared to USC or Texas or Penn State.

I am amazed when posters on this board say things like "we are not USC"

.

We compete at the same level. We produce players. We have won a lot of games and we play to win the national championship. We are a major program that should present itself as a major program.

We should never present ourselves or think of ourselves as anything less than our competition.

You become what you think you are. If you think your are a clown program that needs clown uniforms - than that's what you are. I have no interest in being a clown program - just to get some kid excited for five minutes.

As far as I'm concerned, Syracuse University is a cornerstone program that is worth of putting itself in the same company as Texas, Auburn and the rest.

Alright. Let's put a bow on it.

I've never once said that a kid would base his decision solely on a uni. I've simply pushed back agains the notion that they don't factor it in at all. Bees has tried to tell me that it never happens. Kaiser prefers "the cattle" to never have a say and that we should run our program like the military. I've also maintained that we need every advantage to get a foot in the door of better recruits. I also am a life long fan and am familiar with the history of the program, respect all of the greats, the uni's and numbers of the past, like my uni's to have more orange in them, and didn't love most of the looks we rolled out this season. Now that's out of the way...

Go ahead and read this article.

Some quotes:

"While uniforms had been used for decades as recruiting tools, Oregon took it to a new level starting in the early 2000s."
It's a new world.

"With the support of Nike founder and Oregon alumnus Phil Knight, Oregon unveiled in 2005 a new high-performances uniform that kicked things into high gear. Players were allowed to provide feedback into the design of the uniform, which the Ducks used a recruiting tool. "It opened doors for us," said Oregon coach Mark Helfrich..."
Nice quote for Cowboy Kaiser and his cattle. Go on.

"It's something we pride ourselves on that started in the early '90s. [Uniforms] are how we got in the door at all. And now we're able to compete a little bit differently nationally with recruits, and we can at least get in the door. But more and more, it just puts you in front of some different people."
That's what a change in uni gives you - a chance - a foot in the door to sell your academics, NFL HoF, coach relationships, etc.

"You drive down a highway and you look at a billboard and it says, 'you just looked at this billboard, you should use it as advertisement' -- it's the same philosophy as uniforms," Oklahoma State coach Mike Gundy said. "It's a marketing tool. It grabs the attention of the young men we're recruiting."
This is perfect. Because a team on a ten year dip in national perception could use some "billboards" and anything at all that grabs the attention of the kids we're after.

"But as any good advertiser will tell you, it doesn't matter how shiny the package is if you can't get somebody to buy the product. ESPN.com surveyed more than 700 high school recruits from the classes of 2014 and 2015 -- including 90 who self-identified as a member of the ESPN 300 for the Classes of 2014 or 2015 -- and asked them where uniforms ranked in their college decision. Uniforms were the top factor for only 3 percent of players, and uniforms ranked eighth on the list of criteria behind academics, coaching, playing time, school tradition, location, experience sending players to the NFL and television exposure."
Exactly. Anyone who says "its the reason" is a crazy person. And why I've never said it.

"Fifty-two percent of the players surveyed said they believed the way they look in a uniform helps them perform better on the field."
Insert joke about our uni's and our 3-9 season here. But don't dismiss that over half of the players think it helps them.

"Dupree (2013, #1 RB) concurred. "That's probably a better example of when uniforms can come into play. If they're both [equal], and this one school has better uniforms, then that's going to bump them up a little for me and for almost every recruit out there."
Hmm. I'd like to have an edge over the other school that we are neck and neck with for a stud player.

---

Now - to your final points: I agree. But you have to understand that our great and proud tradition was damaged not by a uni combination (though those Gregger Pumkin uni's have to be the worst in our history) - but by sustained losing under Greg Robinson, and followed by mediocrity.

I think we can agree to disagree on whether the possible edge in recruiting is worth the ding to our own pride as fans. But I want to get better at any cost. If we were playing in the playoffs this year, these uni's would be growing on all of us.

And in 20 years I'll be pushing for the look we have now and a return to "tradition."

 

[kcsu]

For me it is simple. Take the uniform we wore in 59 National champs. Update that uniform and go with. Two versions. Home and away.

 

[Full_Rebar]

So instead of worrying about uniforms, schools should instead focus on getting coaches in place along with the facilities, to put players in the NFL and having winning teams featured on television...or exactly how Oregon did it no matter what stupid combination of uniform they wore.

Of course Gross hired the guy who thinks the Harrington for Heisman Times Square billboard had more to do with Oregon's success than landing 5 star kids from California, or having the foresight to give Chip Kelly his 1st FBS job.

 

[TheCusian]

So instead of worrying about uniforms, schools should instead focus on getting coaches in place along with the facilities, to put players in the NFL and having winning teams featured on television...or exactly how Oregon did it no matter what stupid combination of uniform they wore. Of course Gross hired the guy who thinks the Harrington for Heisman Times Square billboard had more to do with Oregon's success than landing 5 star kids from California, or having the foresight to give Chip Kelly his 1st FBS job.

Exercises in missing the point. They did a lot of things right - including getting the attention of recruits with uni's.

We have a lot of great things to sell a recruit on - and we need to help our coaches with things like new uni's and the IPF. Builds momentum.

 

[rrlbees]

Cmon. You read the article where Nike sat down with the captains from the 2013 team to get their opinion, right?

So you say the capts decided to get rid of the orange and chose clown suits. They may have been asked their opinion of the crossed 44 or the words inside the collar. But I bet they weren't asked about the finished product. The Nike release I remember even lied calling out blue uniforms a familiar SU uniform.

And I'll tell you what, if the captains chose the final product as well as the color combos, it's proof of why kids shouldn't have a say.

 

[rrlbees]

1st of all - wasn't my question. 2nd - they are given choices - they have all of the photos from their visits in different teams uni's and watch the teams that are recruiting them. 3rd - if that's a recruiting violation that actually gets the school in trouble, the NCAA better hire a million people to prosecute all of the thousands of daily "violations" by every school in D1.

I'm talking choices of SU uniforms or color combos. They were not given choices and aren't gonna say they don't like a uni.

 

[TheCusian]

I'm talking choices of SU uniforms or color combos. They were not given choices and aren't gonna say they don't like a uni.

That's asinine. What recruit gets a choice of SU uniforms and color combos? We are competing with the other offers a kid has, not ourselves.

It's something that the #1 recruit in the country in 2013 could be a tie breaker when all other things are equal.

 

[TheCusian]

So you say the capts decided to get rid of the orange and chose clown suits. They may have been asked their opinion of the crossed 44 or the words inside the collar. But I bet they weren't asked about the finished product. The Nike release I remember even lied calling out blue uniforms a familiar SU uniform. And I'll tell you what, if the captains chose the final product as well as the color combos, it's proof of why kids shouldn't have a say.

I don't think either of us has that info at our disposal.

 

[rrlbees]

That's asinine. What recruit gets a choice of SU uniforms and color combos? We are competing with the other offers a kid has, not ourselves. It's something that the #1 recruit in the country in 2013 could be a tie breaker when all other things are equal.

You miss the point. Just because a kid says he likes our uni's, does not mean he wouldn't like something else better.

And I've never heard one kid ever say unis were any factor in their decision to come here.

 

[BlackKnight76]

I agree completely.

Frankly, it's not their program - it's our program.

We invite them to have the privilege of playing for our program.

The players come and go, but the program and the brand remains - and the uniform is the essence of the brand.

If you want to root for the best players, you better hope it's their program. Otherwise, they'll go play for a powerhouse, or somewhere where it is their program.

 

[TheCusian]

You miss the point. Just because a kid says he likes our uni's, does not mean he wouldn't like something else better. And I've never heard one kid ever say unis were any factor in their decision to come here.

Well sure. I'm sure given a choice out of any UNI in the world, every kid would pick something different. But back on planet reality a kid is choosing between his offers and comparing all of the things a school is offering - uni's included.

Did you read the article? It's not in the top 8 reasons - but it plays a factor. I read 2 more articles like that one with quotes from coaches, administrators, and recruits. Every time a school changes their uni's they cite it as s recruiting tool.

You can believe that somehow we only recruit kids to whom it doesn't matter - but the requires a huge suspension of reality.

I'm done with this topic.

 

[Scooch]

This wouldn't be such a lightning rod if our new unis weren't so GD awful.

There was some consternation when the hoops unis went with silver, but generally speaking I think most people like those. I know I do.

It's not that most people are stuck in the 80s or hate change, it's just that these specific uniforms suck moose balls.

I love modern unis, I just hate ours with the white hot intensity of 1,000 suns.

 

[OrangePA]

If you want to root for the best players, you better hope it's their program. Otherwise, they'll go play for a powerhouse, or somewhere where it is their program.

No they won't.

They'll play for a program that they think will get them to the next level.

When they go to Alabama or USC they are accepted into somebody else's club - not their club.

They become part of something much bigger than themselves.

And that's how the great Syracuse University Football Program should think of itself and present itself - it should not presume itself to be a clown program, unworthy of maintaining its own brand - that needs gimmicks to draw talent.

 

[OrangePA]

This wouldn't be such a lightning rod if our new unis weren't so GD awful.

There was some consternation when the hoops unis went with silver, but generally speaking I think most people like those. I know I do.

It's not that most people are stuck in the 80s or hate change, it's just that these specific uniforms suck moose balls.

I love modern unis, I just hate ours with the white hot intensity of 1,000 suns.

I don't like the silver numbered uniforms.

But BB is different.

There really has never been a traditional SU BB uniform.

I can count I think nine or ten different versions of the uniform since 1969.

Some programs have iconic uniforms - UCLA and Indiana come to mind.

And they don't mess with them. SU BB is different.

 

[OrangePA]

Well sure. I'm sure given a choice out of any UNI in the world, every kid would pick something different. But back on planet reality a kid is choosing between his offers and comparing all of the things a school is offering - uni's included.

Did you read the article? It's not in the top 8 reasons - but it plays a factor. I read 2 more articles like that one with quotes from coaches, administrators, and recruits. Every time a school changes their uni's they cite it as s recruiting tool.

You can believe that somehow we only recruit kids to whom it doesn't matter - but the requires a huge suspension of reality.

I'm done with this topic.

First, I'm not sure what an administrator is going to say - "we went with the new uniforms to make more money"? Or, "well, this is what Nike told us we have to do"?

Va Tech went funky a few years ago - and recruiting has gotten much worse for them.

Oklahoma State is having trouble of late.

And Penn State with all its trouble is with the traditional uniform recruiting very well.

Frankly, it has gotten to the point where the schools that have gone the funky uniform route are beginning to look alike.

They all seem to have the all white look and the all grey look etc. I am an IU grad - IU has the all-white uniforms that SU wore this year. One of my buddies called me during an SU game and commented "hey, that's either IU or Texas playing CMU!"

In an effort I guess to be distinctive the schools are becoming homogenous - how ironic.

 

[TheCusian]

They all seem to have the all white look and the all grey look etc. I am an IU grad - IU has the all-white uniforms that SU wore this year. One of my buddies called me during an SU game and commented "hey, that's either IU or Texas playing CMU!"

In an effort I guess to be distinctive the schools are becoming homogenous - how ironic.

I actually agree with some of this - I think it's a fad.

You guys are burying your head in the sand if you think it doesn't matter to recruits though. I've done all I can do - actual quotes from coaches doing the recruiting to the kids being recruited. It matters - not much in the scheme of things - but it does matter.

 

[Millhouse]

lots of responses from cusian but no response to the simple question of why the factories generally have more traditional uniforms more weeks. is it a luxury they can afford and we can't?

 

[Millhouse]

I actually agree with some of this - I think it's a fad.

You guys are burying your head in the sand if you think it doesn't matter to recruits though. I've done all I can do - actual quotes from coaches doing the recruiting to the kids being recruited. It matters - not much in the scheme of things - but it does matter.

if i were a coach and my school dressed up the kids in fairy wings and glitter, i would be all in saying that fairy wings and glitter appeal to recruits. and the kids who decide to come to my school will be self selected fairy wings and glitter fans

 

[TheCusian]

lots of responses from cusian but no response to the simple question of why the factories generally have more traditional uniforms more weeks. is it a luxury they can afford and we can't?

Yep. Oregon needed a bump in perception - so they tried some new stuff and it worked. Now lots of copycats.

The big boys don't need a trick to get in the front door - they are Alabama or Ohio State.

The old guys don't like it - but we are not thought of the same way. We need all the the help we can get.

I'm not sure these uni's did the trick - but I like that they are trying to elevate the perception of the program in the eyes of recruits. Just wish they did it with scheduling tricks as well - seems like a more effective way to build momentum.

 

[TheCusian]

if i were a coach and my school dressed up the kids in fairy wings and glitter, i would be all in saying that fairy wings and glitter appeal to recruits. and the kids who decide to come to my school will be self selected fairy wings and glitter fans

It may be self-sustaining BS - I don't know. I just think it's crazy talk for people to write it off when the number of schools playing with uni concepts is roughly half of CFB.

 

[Scooch]

Yep. Oregon needed a bump in perception - so they tried some new stuff and it worked. Now lots of copycats. The big boys don't need a trick to get in the front door - they are Alabama or Ohio State. The old guys don't like it - but we are not thought of the same way. We need all the the help we can get. I'm not sure these uni's did the trick - but I like that they are trying to elevate the perception of the program in the eyes of recruits. Just wish they did it with scheduling tricks as well - seems like a more effective way to build momentum.

Oregon's kajillion dollar facilities thanks to Uncle Phil >>>>>>>>>> wacky uniforms, though.

And it's more evidence of SU desperately trying to be a copycat instead of finding unique things to set us apart, on field or off.

Past decade we've been Lame Ass Trend Follower U in all aspects.