Is Rob Moore Next

[RMH44]

There's two sides of the coin however. At recruiting time it appeared each year we were bringing in some talent. So was our recruiting eval overrated or did they just not develop?

I get your point...BUT...can you supply a few names that, at the time, would make the "some talent" list?

You don't take a flyer in mid-summer on a 159 pound JC WR that nobody else recruited if the staff was satisfied with the talent level of the group.

 

[Whitey23]

Moore to Buffalo, hafley to SU.

If that were to happen, I could live with it.

Warning, this is not anything I've heard...just thinking out loud.

Fred Reed for Hafley sounds like a better trade.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Complaining about recruiting success is one thing...challenging his coaching prowess is something totally different.

Considering the talent, or lack thereof, that Moore has had to work with I think he's done a fine job coaching the WR's. If we were stacked at the WR position there wouldn't be a need to bring as many recruits in as we have in the last two classes. Hell, if we had necessary talent level in the WR corp we wouldn't have to switch H-backs to WR mid-season or use our best DB on fly routes.

Wouldn't the WR coach be somewhat responsible for WR talent that has been recruited?

Look I loved the hire initially (SU guy, NFL all pro, running NFL WR combine) but have cooled on it. He's been WR coach for 3 years and we still drop far too many passes and have too many guys that can't break press coverage off the line. Alec Lemon and ? have excelled under Moore and I tend to think Alec would've been a success regardless of who was coaching him.

End game, I wouldn't be upset if he stayed but equally would not be upset if he left under good terms for himself personally and was replaced by a WR coach that can recruit better and possibly get more from our current players.

 

[rrlbees]

I get your point...BUT...can you supply a few names that, at the time, would make the "some talent" list?

You don't take a flyer in mid-summer on a 159 pound JC WR that nobody else recruited if the staff was satisfied with the talent level of the group.

Any number of kids we recruited over the past 5 years. West, Kobena, etc. I know it's mostly fans that talk up recruits, but there's a list of kids coaches talked up too. Why did we take a flyer on Clarke? Was it because of bad eval, kids not developing or injuries?

 

[KaiserUEO]

hafley is going someplace in the northeast, Syracuse, bc, ped st, nd...

 

[IthacaBarrel]

so will angelichio... he can recruit with the best of them as well

 

[RMH44]

Wouldn't the WR coach be somewhat responsible for WR talent that has been recruited?

Look I loved the hire initially (SU guy, NFL all pro, running NFL WR combine) but have cooled on it. He's been WR coach for 3 years and we still drop far too many passes and have too many guys that can't break press coverage off the line. Alec Lemon and ? have excelled under Moore and I tend to think Alec would've been a success regardless of who was coaching him.

End game, I wouldn't be upset if he stayed but equally would not be upset if he left under good terms for himself personally and was replaced by a WR coach that can recruit better and possibly get more from our current players.

There are very few WR's on the current roster (excluding RF) that would be on a normal 2-deep. We have guys that can't catch a cold...let alone a football. Would a healthy Flemming and Hale have made a difference?

We've moved AB from H-back and used Esk (arguably our best DB) as a WR in certain situations. Our current recruiting class is flush with WR prospects and we're still waiting on a few. I think it's pretty obvious that the staff has identified that the wr unit needs major upgrades. I'm inclined to heavily lean toward lack of talent rather than poor coaching.

 

[Alsacs]

I brought this point up about Moore before. I like and respect him as an SU alum, but I wouldn't be upset if he moved on. The recruitment of Brandon Coleman is where I lost faith in Moore' ability to recruit. I am sure he is a good teacher, but college football is about recruiting the players as much as it is developing the talent. McDonald would get the credit for the WR recruits we have coming IMO. If their was a Coleman type prospect now does anybody believe even with our 3 bowls in 4 years Moore could out-recruit RU/MD for the kid because I don't. I wish Moore well if he isn't back and if he is back I hope he develops what we have coming back and coming in because our WR play was sub-par this year.

 

[TheCusian]

I brought this point up about Moore before. I like and respect him as an SU alum, but I wouldn't be upset if he moved on. The recruitment of Brandon Coleman is where I lost faith in Moore' ability to recruit. I am sure he is a good teacher, but college football is about recruiting the players as much as it is developing the talent. McDonald would get the credit for the WR recruits we have coming IMO. If their was a Coleman type prospect now does anybody believe even with our 3 bowls in 4 years Moore could out-recruit RU/MD for the kid because I don't. I wish Moore well if he isn't back and if he is back I hope he develops what we have coming back and coming in because our WR play was sub-par this year.

I don't care who gets credit. Let MCDonald recruit and Moore coach them into pros. I don't see why his recruiting prowess matters one bit in light of the current crop of WR coming in...

AB progressed really well this year. As did Cornelius. Not to mention Lemon. Moore's track record as a WR coach is fine, his NFL/Cuse chops get him in his kids ears.

 

[RMH44]

Any number of kids we recruited over the past 5 years. West, Kobena, etc. I know it's mostly fans that talk up recruits, but there's a list of kids coaches talked up too. Why did we take a flyer on Clarke? Was it because of bad eval, kids not developing or injuries?

Ironically, Clark turned out to be a decent player...all 160 pounds of him. West did well as a third receiver...he isn't, and probably never will be, a number one type of guy. Lacks the quickness out of breaks and overall speed to get separation.

Kobena is nothing more than a solid ST player. His hands make AB's look like Fred Biletnikoff's!

 

[ImperialOrange]

There are very few WR's on the current roster (excluding RF) that would be on a normal 2-deep. We have guys that can't catch a cold...let alone a football. Would a healthy Flemming and Hale have made a difference?

We've moved AB from H-back and used Esk (arguably our best DB) as a WR in certain situations. Our current recruiting class is flush with WR prospects and we're still waiting on a few. I think it's pretty obvious that the staff has identified that the wr unit needs major upgrades. I'm inclined to heavily lean toward lack of talent rather than poor coaching.

I give most coaches a pass for the 1st year but Moore is 3 years in so in the past 2 seasons it would've been ideal to have some guys coached up and ready to start this season OR have them recruited over. I'm not asking for all WRs to be super stars but my expectation is to catch a majority of catchable balls thrown their way and to be able to give the QB a target on most plays. When that doesn't happen I tend to reflect that on the coach.

 

[OrangeDW]

Here's the thing. I love Rob Moore as the former SU player, but as a recruiter and WR coach he hasn't lit the world on fire. Him leaving to take an NFL position vs eventually being relieved of his current position wouldn't be terrible IMO.

I think it's unfair to say he hasn't done well as a coach. Lemon was one of our more improved players over the years, who became a legit good college WR as a senior. Our leader in receptions this yeaar was a kid who was recruited as a QB, played RB, and is definitely not a natural WR. It's not like Moore has had much to work with. We're not at practice, for all we know he could be working miracles.

Our recruiting as a whole has not lit the world on fire for like 20 years now, so I can't blame him any more than any other coach we've had.

 

[RMH44]

I give most coaches a pass for the 1st year but Moore is 3 years in so in the past 2 seasons it would've been ideal to have some guys coached up and ready to start this season OR have them recruited over. I'm not asking for all WRs to be super stars but my expectation is to catch a majority of catchable balls thrown their way and to be able to give the QB a target on most plays. When that doesn't happen I tend to reflect that on the coach.

I understand and realize you're not a negative poster but some players simply can't catch no matter what level of coaching they receive. Kind of like me and golf.

As I mentioned above, maybe a healthy Flemming and Hale make a huge difference. Or maybe Cory Cooper starts from day one if he qualifies. Or maybe Quinta starts from day one if his academics were in order.

I'm really excited about the potential in the current class: Cooper, Custis, KJ, Phillips and (hopefully) Ismael.

 

[Alsacs]

I call it the way I see it. McDonald wasn't strong as a OC to start the year, but he grew into the position over the course of the entire season. McDonald won me over as a recruiter though while he hasn't been getting every target it shows with whom we have gotten that he has the recruiting chops to get talent into Syracuse. WR was by far the worst position on the field this year, and Moore has been here since Marrone and was tapped to be NJ recruiter on the staff. Moore may be a good coach, but his recruiting has not been good. I am not saying to cut him off the staff after 1 year. He has been here for a while and I don't remember whom he has brought in as a recruiter. This year he may been working with not the best material, but if he is great at coaching them up then the WR should have been better this year. Estime was the best WR in the bowl game, and I believe he was a McDonald recruit at the very end last year. If Moore is staying the WRs need to be better next year because the talent has been brought in by McDonald.

 

[OrangeDW]

I give most coaches a pass for the 1st year but Moore is 3 years in so in the past 2 seasons it would've been ideal to have some guys coached up and ready to start this season OR have them recruited over. I'm not asking for all WRs to be super stars but my expectation is to catch a majority of catchable balls thrown their way and to be able to give the QB a target on most plays. When that doesn't happen I tend to reflect that on the coach.

Last year, Lemon and Sales were one of the most productive WR duos we've ever had. If we're talking player development, those two certainly did.

Certainly there wasn't much ready to go this year in terms of replacing them though. I do think it's a good sign that freshmen like Cornelius and Estime were making plays late in the season, and we seem to have a promising group of WR's coming in. We'll see what happens. I think it will be much more fair to Moore and accurate for his reputation to be made over the next 3-4 years with this crop.

 

[rrlbees]

Ironically, Clark turned out to be a decent player...all 160 pounds of him. West did well as a third receiver...he isn't, and probably never will be, a number one type of guy. Lacks the quickness out of breaks and overall speed to get separation.

Kobena is nothing more than a solid ST player. His hands make AB's look like Fred Biletnikoff's!

So were the evals overrated or did they just not develop? I know those are just 2 of the WR we brought in that the staff as well as fans were very excited about.

 

[RMH44]

So were the evals overrated or did they just not develop? I know those are just 2 of the WR we brought in that the staff as well as fans were very excited about.

Personally, I have no idea why anyone was high on Kobena other than on special teams. It was glaringly obvious that he has terrible hands.
Speed doesn't matter if you can't catch the ball.

What wideouts, other than Lewis, was the last staff high on? I don't recall.

 

[anglerman]

So were the evals overrated or did they just not develop? I know those are just 2 of the WR we brought in that the staff as well as fans were very excited about.

Most of the guys brought in by Marrone just arent very good players. They are not BCS quality players it's not coaching.

 

[ssbriefcase]

I know they were very high on West. And they should have been, he had 8 major BCS offers.

 

[money3189]

Ironically, Clark turned out to be a decent player...all 160 pounds of him. West did well as a third receiver...he isn't, and probably never will be, a number one type of guy. Lacks the quickness out of breaks and overall speed to get separation.

Kobena is nothing more than a solid ST player. His hands make AB's look like Fred Biletnikoff's!

thats funny man. thanks for the laugh

 

[Orangepace]

Most of the guys brought in by Marrone just arent very good players. They are not BCS quality players it's not coaching.

I strongly disagree.. I believe the problem most of our guys have is that they cannot beat press coverage. That's coaching, not talent.

 

[money3189]

Moore is a great fundamental WR coach. I know this because of clinics ive seen him at, drill videos, and through conversations Ive had with him. He is a alum, He does a great job developing the WR's. IMO, I think the reason he is not considered a good recruiter is that he doesnt want to chase the high profile players, he rather get a kid who wants to come here and wants to be developed. His confidence in his coaching effects his persistence in his recruiting. (just my opinion). I think he thinks any WR can be developed and worth something under his coaching and expertise. This explains the recruitment of Kobena, Flemming, Hale, Lewis and Clark. To me all of them are D 1aa talent but they all can be productive with his coaching. Ashton could not catch the ball in his younger years. I know that for a fact. So for him to have 50 catches as a soph is great. With that being said, I dont think losing him will hurt that much. Mcdonald is just as good or even better WR coach and we can always find a GA or someone to coach the TE's.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

Most of the guys brought in by Marrone just arent very good players. They are not BCS quality players it's not coaching.

haha. I assume that is sarcasm. At least I'll take it as that.

 

[tep624]

Most of the guys brought in by Marrone just arent very good players. They are not BCS quality players it's not coaching.

There's a big difference between saying we need some difference makers, which we do, and saying most of the roster aren't BCS quality players - which is far from accurate.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

I'm looking forward to seeing what Rob Moore can do with the incoming class of WR and we will all be closer to an answer on his coaching abilities. More important, HCSS and OCGM will know whether he helps the team or not and I am pretty sure if he is not, he will be gone based on their feelings and not ours.