Kool Kid is awful

[jr4750]

Muy guess is that's why we moved Broylf to the outside. Big fast kid that can get off the line and get deep. Force them to back off should they decide to press the line. Now, if Hunt can hit one...although I must say his deep ball is looking better, not great, but better. Just missed West on a tough throw. The one he missed to Broyld I give him a bit of a pass on as he was under some heat there and didn't get time to set.

Truth, he had to step up and was only able to get a half wind up on the ball... That ball wasn't his fault. He does need to hit a few of those throws though... The ball West did catch was a nice pass.

 

[money3189]

It's obvious to me. Our offense is serviceable if we are in close games. We do not have "catch up" kind of skill. As long as the game is close, we can grind it out and win with our defense. Similar to 2001. However, if we get behind by 2 or 3 TDs, forget it.

Exactly. If we try to make hunt do things he can't do we will have more turnovers and it will put us in situations that we can't afford. We can't afford to be down 2 or 3 TD's. Managing the game and playing solid defense can get you 6-6 or 7-5 in a tougher conference.

 

[chakka3421]

My problem with the play calling is that we don't run it between the tackles enough - seems like cool kid is trying to run around or bubble screen to go around the defense even if they are stacking the box.

My view is to play hardnosed we need to run downhill more often followed up by passing short downhill with the occasional sweeps & bubbles - so yes I don't like the cool kids play calling for that reason alone because we still have J Smith who is best when running between the tackles and we don't do it enough.

 

[JoeSU]

My problem with the play calling is that we don't run it between the tackles enough - seems like cool kid is trying to run around or bubble screen to go around the defense even if they are stacking the box.

My view is to play hardnosed we need to run downhill more often followed up by passing short downhill with the occasional sweeps & bubbles - so yes I don't like the cool kids play calling for that reason alone because we still have J Smith who is best when running between the tackles and we don't do it enough.

I was thinking this last Saturday, when we seemed to have a size advantage along the line. Also, we should be passing the ball more to the RBs. When's the last time we threw a screen pass to Gulley or Smith?

 

[TheCusian]

Actually, if you look through the history, I gave him the nickname. Cool Kid. And it wasn't complimentary.

You're bragging that you were out in front on hating on our new OC? I don't think he's above criticism - but racing to conclusions early is nothing to brag about.

 

[jr4750]

I was thinking this last Saturday, when we seemed to have a size advantage along the line. Also, we should be passing the ball more to the RBs. When's the last time we threw a screen pass to Gulley or Smith?

Both got bubble's and quick outs against WF. But I agree we should be featuring them more in this capacity, especially Gully.

 

[Orijinal]

You're bragging that you were out in front on hating on our new OC? I don't think he's above criticism - but racing to conclusions early is nothing to brag about.

Not bragging. Stating fact. And see some of my other posts where I called him GM. Or the one where I just defended him ...a little.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Actually, if you look through the history, I gave him the nickname. Cool Kid. And it wasn't complimentary.

Ah, that's right, I couldn't remember who came up with that. I thought it was a great nickname, and it appears to be multi-purpose.

 

[Orijinal]

One thing I heard that I didn't care for came from Shafer's post game comments. Shafer had told McDonald during practice week that the wide-receiver pass was "out [of the playbook]." And what does McDonald do? He calls for the West pass to Estime. It got the TD. But was that a lack of respect for your superior? I don't know. I don't know all the ins and outs of it, if Shafer eventually said, "yeah, go ahead." But Shafer never made a comment in the post game that he changed his mind about it--just that he told GM "no" and GM did it anyway.

 

[Orijinal]

Ah, that's right, I couldn't remember who came up with that. I thought it was a great nickname, and it appears to be multi-purpose.

Haha! Fantastic

 

[TheCusian]

One thing I heard that I didn't care for came from Shafer's post game comments. Shafer had told McDonald during practice week that the wide-receiver pass was "out [of the playbook]." And what does McDonald do? He calls for the West pass to Estime. It got the TD. But was that a lack of respect for your superior? I don't know. I don't know all the ins and outs of it, if Shafer eventually said, "yeah, go ahead." But Shafer never made a comment in the post game that he changed his mind about it--just that he told GM "no" and GM did it anyway.

Shafer told him it was out - and noted by the look GM gave him that he was going to keep working on it. He said they got it right by game day.

 

[rrlbees]

Ok, so 8 for 37 -- or 4.5 per catch. Throw in Clark's 3 for 19 and we have what, 11 bubbles for 54 yards? Pretty much 5 yards a clip. They are essentially runs. I think most here would take 5 yards a carry from anyone.

Keep subtracting because they weren't all bubbles. But regardless, my whole original point was that IMO we did too much east west stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CIL]

You forced me to watch the damn thing over on my DVR, nice work .

We completed 10 bubble or jailbreak screens for 62 yards. The longest went for 15. That's an average of 6.2 per screen. Of the 10, only 3 went for less than 3 yards. Only 2 went for a first down. These are plays that are designed to get 4-5 yards if the defender is off the ball.

Advanced FB stats show that a team needs to gain 4.5 on first in order for the play to be successful. Getting it to 3rd and 2.5 is also considered a success, as it increases the probability of getting another set of downs.

I have no idea if Shafer embraces advanced metrics for FB or not. I suspect he does to an extent, because he often talks about holding the other team to less than 4 on first and gaining more than 4 on first. Against Wake, the bubble screen (of which we were 10 for 11 passing, one was batted down I believe) gave use the best chance of increasing that first down probability as we averaged 5.5 per attempt, 6.2 per completion.

Throwing the ball downfield is nice in theory, but if you only complete 10% of the attempts, it doesn't help as much as one would think.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You forced me to watch the damn thing over on my DVR, nice work .

We completed 10 bubble or jailbreak screens for 62 yards. The longest went for 15. That's an average of 6.2 per screen. Of the 10, only 3 went for less than 3 yards.

The horror!!!!!! Fire him now for calling what is basically a running play for a wide receiver and asks athletes to beat someone. They are like a hand off, nothing more

 

[money3189]

Its an outside run play. Like IB said. Which is much needed because sooner or later Brisley or Ashton is gonna break some long ones. You have to put the ball in the play makers hands and the more they get it the more comfortable they get and that's when big plays come.

 

[anomander]

I hear you, I figured Allen would be good because he was a highly regarded recruit coming from a football hotbed. Oops as well.

Specific to this thread... I have no idea if McDonald is a good OC or not. Time will certainly tell.

I do find it amusing that for three years any critique of the offense was met with strident rebuttals of "no talent!" and "worst BCS program in America!".

Now we've lost 4 huge contributors (mostly recruited by the dope who preceded our most-recent coach) but the guys who have inherited this offensive rebuild aren't getting cut much slack.

It's such an odd debate. If you accept that our talent isn't as good as the pollyannas thought, well then who's to blame for that? Yet that regime is sainted due to the success they had, in year 4 with the other guy's best players. Odd.

i don't think it's as much as there isn't any talent, it's just the talent that is there is being asked to perform in a system they weren't recruited for. i think this talent could do ok under the old scheme, but for what McDonald is trying to do they just don't have the skill sets to get it done

 

[rrlbees]

You forced me to watch the damn thing over on my DVR, nice work .

We completed 10 bubble or jailbreak screens for 62 yards. The longest went for 15. That's an average of 6.2 per screen. Of the 10, only 3 went for less than 3 yards. Only 2 went for a first down. These are plays that are designed to get 4-5 yards if the defender is off the ball.

Advanced FB stats show that a team needs to gain 4.5 on first in order for the play to be successful. Getting it to 3rd and 2.5 is also considered a success, as it increases the probability of getting another set of downs.

I have no idea if Shafer embraces advanced metrics for FB or not. I suspect he does to an extent, because he often talks about holding the other team to less than 4 on first and gaining more than 4 on first. Against Wake, the bubble screen (of which we were 10 for 11 passing, one was batted down I believe) gave use the best chance of increasing that first down probability as we averaged 5.5 per attempt, 6.2 per completion.

Throwing the ball downfield is nice in theory, but if you only complete 10% of the attempts, it doesn't help as much as one would think.

Since you watched it, what were the pass plays that went to Estime for 3, 5, 2, 2, 2, 3 yards?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CIL]

Since you watched it, what were the pass plays that went to Estime for 3, 5, 2, 2, 2, 3 yards?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is what ESPN's box score doesn't tell you since I watched it. One of the plays was called off for holding buddy, other was more of a traditional screen pass. I'm not sure if the traditional screen was 2 or 3. The bubbles got our offense moving. Do I love that play, no? Was it a key catalyst in getting our offense out of a brutal first quarter funk? Absolutely. It worked.

Here's all our true bubbles :

2nd and 7 at SYR 38Terrel Hunt pass complete to Brisly Estime for 3 yards to the Syrac 41.
1st and 10 at SYR 35Terrel Hunt pass complete to Christopher Clark for 5 yards to the Syrac 40.
2nd and 5 at SYR 40Terrel Hunt pass complete to Brisly Estime for 5 yards to the Syrac 45 for a 1ST down.
2nd and 5 at SYR 50Terrel Hunt pass complete to Brisly Estime for 7 yards to the WFrst 43 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at SYR 30Terrel Hunt pass complete to Brisly Estime for 2 yards to the Syrac 32.
1st and 10 at SYR 37Terrel Hunt pass complete to Christopher Clark for 8 yards to the Syrac 45.
1st and 10 at WAKE 31Terrel Hunt pass complete to Brisly Estime for 13 yards to the WFrst 18 for a 1ST down.
2nd and 8 at WAKE 16Terrel Hunt pass complete to Jarrod West for 15 yards to the WFrst 1 for a 1ST down.
3rd and 6 at WAKE 39Terrel Hunt pass complete to Brisly Estime for 3 yards to the WFrst 36.

 

[rrlbees]

This is what ESPN's box score doesn't tell you since I watched it. One of the plays was called off for holding buddy, other was more of a traditional screen pass.

Here's all our true bubbles :

2nd and 7 at SYR 38Terrel Hunt pass complete to Brisly Estime for 3 yards to the Syrac 41.
1st and 10 at SYR 35Terrel Hunt pass complete to Christopher Clark for 5 yards to the Syrac 40.
2nd and 5 at SYR 40Terrel Hunt pass complete to Brisly Estime for 5 yards to the Syrac 45 for a 1ST down.
2nd and 5 at SYR 50Terrel Hunt pass complete to Brisly Estime for 7 yards to the WFrst 43 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at SYR 30Terrel Hunt pass complete to Brisly Estime for 2 yards to the Syrac 32.
1st and 10 at SYR 37Terrel Hunt pass complete to Christopher Clark for 8 yards to the Syrac 45.
1st and 10 at WAKE 31Terrel Hunt pass complete to Brisly Estime for 13 yards to the WFrst 18 for a 1ST down.
2nd and 8 at WAKE 16Terrel Hunt pass complete to Jarrod West for 15 yards to the WFrst 1 for a 1ST down.
3rd and 6 at WAKE 39Terrel Hunt pass complete to Brisly Estime for 3 yards to the WFrst 36.

I didn't use ESPN. Whether they were "true" bubble screens they were "east west" passes as were the 2 to Gulley for 0 yards. I honestly don't remember a bubble pass to West. Now you're gonna make me watch it again this week.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[CIL]

The West play was the one where they called back the TD. IIRC, we stared off 4 wide, twins to each side. Motioned over to trips right, then threw the quick hitter to West.

 

[IHeartSUFball]

This isn't on Estime or his ability, but all those bubble screens for 2-3 yards did little to win the game. It kept them honest but we weren't gaining any yards so putting anyone out there would hVe had the same results. I realize putting Estime out there is with the hopes one will be broken.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

actually the kid gave Hunt a viable outlet to pass too, and he caught a TD pass. I'd say he helped win us the game.

 

[rrlbees]

actually the kid gave Hunt a viable outlet to pass too, and he caught a TD pass. I'd say he helped win us the game.

You changed what I said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[supp]

mcdonald wasn't here last year. how is he supposed to run the same offense? watch some games and figure it out? easier said than done and who knows what offense would've run this year anyway with this group

So when Marrone left, he not only took most of the staff, but the playbook, and he made all the players hand in their playbooks too? Instead of visiting with Atlanta, couldn't have McDonald consulted with Hackett and Marrone this past summer?

 

[Millhouse]

So when Marrone left, he not only took most of the staff, but the playbook, and he made all the players hand in their playbooks too? Instead of visiting with Atlanta, couldn't have McDonald consulted with Hackett and Marrone this past summer?

Obviously I'm assuming there's more to it than just the playbook. These guys dont spend their lives at the office if you can just glean everything from a book and consultation

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[chakka3421]

So when Marrone left, he not only took most of the staff, but the playbook, and he made all the players hand in their playbooks too? Instead of visiting with Atlanta, couldn't have McDonald consulted with Hackett and Marrone this past summer?

Obviously I'm assuming there's more to it than just the playbook. These guys dont spend their lives at the office if you can just glean everything from a book and consultation
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

The playbook was all computerized by the tech wizards of a major bank as a donation to the football program during his tenure which I think Shaffer & company still use.