Kool Kid is awful

[OttoinGrotto]

But my guess is they are willing to bite the bullet this year, get these kids experience and have them learn from their mistakes.

I've been hoping this is the case, as well.

 

[Crusty]

Morris hasn't played the last three games because of injury and Macfarland has had one carry the last three. Didn't get a touch vs NCSt or yesterday. I wouldn't consider either of them getting prime time.

Ryan Nassib had as many carries as Morris his redshirt year. Pugh and Chibane both started every game their second year in the program, one as a RS, Chibane played specials his freshmen year. Same deal for Mackey a year later. Trudo started from the opening game his RS year.

Smith was the second leading rusher his second year in the program in 2011, had 37 carries. PTG was the 2nd back until he got hurt that season. West was the fourth WR as a redshirt freshmen.

I think you have convinced me. I would however, disagree on McFarland and GMII who played prime time until hurt.

 

[Millhouse]

This board is nothing if it's not about digging in your heels and picking a side.

I should know. We can spot our own.

I think the biggest reason Hunt is still starting can be wrapped up in one false start by Beckett Wales. Hunt turns the next play into a TD. Would Allen throw a TD there into a tight window? Maybe, we'll never know. But I feel more comfortable with Hunt running the spread option. It doesn't help Hunt's QB rating, but gives us a desperately needed TD in a rock fight like that.

I agree with you that Allen looked better against GT. Victim of some drops and a drive killing personal foul call. But I didn't think he looked THAT much better. It was like we went from an inept QB to a possibly ok QB. And same situation as Hunt/Northwestern, it's not like Allen played that 2nd half against the best of GT's defense. I really thought we'd see him in the 2nd half against Wake, but in hindsight, I'm glad we didn't.

everyone around here has a bad taste in their mouth about bubble screens from rob spence, who totally misunderstood the point.

there are a million great offenses that take 5 yard chunks when given to them. it's a gift from the defense. our problem is that we don't have a qb who can make anyone pay for taking away the bubble screen.

 

[Orijinal]

The problem that McDonald seems to have is one that many folks have (and not just in football). He seems to equate innovation with success and career advancement. But it's actually doing things successfully (even simple things) that brings you career advancement. It doesn't matter if you invented the technique, it's whether you perfected it.

Boom. GM needs to learn this, and I think he will.

 

[rrlbees]

Those bubble screens went for more than 2-3 yards. Outside of a 6 yard curl, Estime caught 9 passes for 62 yards, or a 6.9 average. Clark caught 3 for 19, or 6.3 yards per catch. West nearly took one for a 15 yard touchdown. We averaged close to 7 yards per bubble -- not too shabby considering it's a run.

I thought West's near TD was a great call by GMac. He motioned to trips right, leaving West with what appeared to be a deep third corner and a lb protecting the curl. Quick bubble to west, beats his man and almost takes it to the house. His offense is predicated on letting your best players make plays.

Does he have these guys learning too much too fast? Maybe. These young kids seem a bit confused out there, lining up wrong (like Broyld who went out to block on a run pass option -- oops). But my guess is they are willing to bite the bullet this year, get these kids experience and have them learn from their mistakes. Almost the complete opposite of Marrone. As Milly showed, Marrone's first few years here under a new system weren't great shakes either.

Ahh, you're including the trick play he had for a TD. Take that and the other one over the middle for 10 yards or whatever, the bubble screens didn't get much. I remember commenting during the game that we had used that play 5 times at that point and each went for 3 yards or less. Add in those couple of flare type passes to PTG that went for 0 and a couple of others and I still maintain we did too much east west stuff.


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[Millhouse]

Boom. GM needs to learn this, and I think he will.

what are you guys seeing that makes you think mcdonald is trying to do something totally unique and innovative that's all his own?

i don't see it.

 

[Millhouse]

Ahh, you're including the trick Olay he had for a TD. Take that and the other one over the middle for 10 yards or whatever, the bubble screens didn't get much. I remember commenting during the game that we had used that play 5 times at that point and each went for 3 yards or less. Add in those couple of flare type passes to PTG that went for 0 and a couple of others and I still maintain we did too much east west stuff.


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good catch. you gotta take that out.

 

[Orijinal]

I have had my sights set on 2015 as the year we can make some noise. By then he will have 2 full seasons of experience, a bunch of upperclassmen with a ton of game experience, and some talented prospects who have already got their feet wet.

I recall someone during the GRob era saying, "In 2009, we will be fine ..."

 

[upperdeck]

I think the biggest issue we had from 2009 on was getting a serviceable oline.. This is not last years oline but its better than when DM started. We don't run consistently well, we cant just grind out chunks, but we do break enough long runs that the yards add up. we struggle almost every game for the first couple of years. Then we started to spike. as much as we struggle at times this year. we had 400+ against NW and Clemson and nct st, tulane, wagner

PSU is not a bad D and the first game issues and GT other than that 340 vs wake with really limited play makers , so we are doing something decent and in the right direction..

Getting to 450-500 takes more than just a scheme.

we have 2 Good RBs. how many times have they been caught on long runs, Gulley is our speed guy and probably caught 3 times on 50+ yd runs. When we start taking plays to the house you will know we have play makers..

1 great game, 4 good games, 1 ok game and 2 clunkers.. I dont think we ever get the talent to do Baylor like stuff up here.. but if we get to 3 great games, 6 good games, 2 ok games and 1 clunker we become a 8-9-10 win team consistently..

 

[Chip]

Ahh, you're including the trick Olay he had for a TD. Take that and the other one over the middle for 10 yards or whatever, the bubble screens didn't get much. I remember commenting during the game that we had used that play 5 times at that point and each went for 3 yards or less. Add in those couple of flare type passes to PTG that went for 0 and a couple of others and I still maintain we did too much east west stuff.


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Perhaps McDonald was installing that (with Estime specifically) to give the next opponent something else to think about. I would expect a lot of work over the middle in practice this week. We also sent Estime deep at least once, so can't just key on him taking bubble screens all day.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I recall someone during the GRob era saying, "In 2009, we will be fine ..."

I remember somebody in the Marrone era saying that in 2012 we would be fine...

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think the biggest issue we had from 2009 on was getting a serviceable oline.. This is not last years oline but its better than when DM started. We don't run consistently well, we cant just grind out chunks, but we do break enough long runs that the yards add up. we struggle almost every game for the first couple of years. Then we started to spike. as much as we struggle at times this year. we had 400+ against NW and Clemson and nct st, tulane, wagner

PSU is not a bad D and the first game issues and GT other than that 340 vs wake with really limited play makers , so we are doing something decent and in the right direction..

Getting to 450-500 takes more than just a scheme.

we have 2 Good RBs. how many times have they been caught on long runs, Gulley is our speed guy and probably caught 3 times on 50+ yd runs. When we start taking plays to the house you will know we have play makers..

1 great game, 4 good games, 1 ok game and 2 clunkers.. I dont think we ever get the talent to do Baylor like stuff up here.. but if we get to 3 great games, 6 good games, 2 ok games and 1 clunker we become a 8-9-10 win team consistently..

Agree 100%, explosive offenses make big plays and they finish them

 

[rrlbees]

Perhaps McDonald was installing that (with Estime specifically) to give the next opponent something else to think about. I would expect a lot of work over the middle in practice this week. We also sent Estime deep at least once, so can't just key on him taking bubble screens all day.

Could be. I also think he was hoping for it to be broken for a long one. It just felt for a period of time that everything we were doing was wide whether it be the bubble screen, the flat passes to Gulley. A sideline pass to Broyld that was inc and a few outside runs. I wanted more Smith even if it only went for a few yards. Keep feeding him and over the course of time he'd get some 6-7-8 yarders. We did that the opening 2nd half drive.


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[IthacaBarrel]

I recall someone during the GRob era saying, "In 2009, we will be fine ..."

Yet we are 4-4 not 1-7

 

[RMH44]

Perhaps McDonald was installing that (with Estime specifically) to give the next opponent something else to think about. I would expect a lot of work over the middle in practice this week. We also sent Estime deep at least once, so can't just key on him taking bubble screens all day.

Gawd, I hope so! Including a few TE seam routes that haven't been used all year.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Could be. I also think he was hoping for it to be broken for a long one. It just felt for a period of time that everything we were doing was wide whether it be the bubble screen, the flat passes to Gulley. A sideline pass to Broyld that was inc and a few outside runs. I wanted more Smith even if it only went for a few yards. Keep feeding him and over the course of time he'd get some 6-7-8 yarders. We did that the opening 2nd half drive.


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I kind of get the feeling that he wants to run Smith more but spends too much time first half trying to get the running game with the big guy set up. Has to be why he tries going east and west, instead of just starting that. Maybe run Hunt more, get Smith going earlier. Clearly every team knows that Smith and Hunt running are our best options

 

[Millhouse]

I think the biggest issue we had from 2009 on was getting a serviceable oline.. This is not last years oline but its better than when DM started. We don't run consistently well, we cant just grind out chunks, but we do break enough long runs that the yards add up. we struggle almost every game for the first couple of years. Then we started to spike. as much as we struggle at times this year. we had 400+ against NW and Clemson and nct st, tulane, wagner

PSU is not a bad D and the first game issues and GT other than that 340 vs wake with really limited play makers , so we are doing something decent and in the right direction..

Getting to 450-500 takes more than just a scheme.

we have 2 Good RBs. how many times have they been caught on long runs, Gulley is our speed guy and probably caught 3 times on 50+ yd runs. When we start taking plays to the house you will know we have play makers..

1 great game, 4 good games, 1 ok game and 2 clunkers.. I dont think we ever get the talent to do Baylor like stuff up here.. but if we get to 3 great games, 6 good games, 2 ok games and 1 clunker we become a 8-9-10 win team consistently..

this complaining about RBs not taking it to the house is wearing on me. i was guilty of it too a while back but cornerbacks are faster than running backs. cj spiller got ran down yesterday

you're complaining about not having playmakers and you're offering up 50+ yard runs as evidence of it

here's some teams who haven't had runs longer than SU's longest of 67

texas aTm's longest run of the year is 49. florida state's longest is 65

oklahoma state, miami, ohio state, texas, stanford, washington, clemson, ucla, houston

no playmakers there either, i guess

http://www.cfbstats.com/2013/leader/national/team/offense/situational01/category01/sort05.html

 

[IthacaBarrel]

this complaining about RBs not taking it to the house is wearing on me. i was guilty of it too a while back but cornerbacks are faster than running backs. cj spiller got ran down yesterday

you're complaining about not having playmakers and you're offering up 50+ yard runs as evidence of it

here's some teams who haven't had runs longer than SU's longest of 67

texas aTm's longest run of the year is 49. florida state's longest is 65

oklahoma state, miami, ohio state, texas, stanford, washington, clemson, ucla, houston

no playmakers there either, i guess

http://www.cfbstats.com/2013/leader/national/team/offense/situational01/category01/sort05.html

I want wide receivers that finish with TD's... that is the biggest difference. What are their longest TD receptions, expecially on the YAC side. That is the thing the bubble screen is a running play for a wr, that is all

 

[Millhouse]

I want wide receivers that finish with TD's... that is the biggest difference. What are their longest TD receptions, expecially on the YAC side. That is the thing the bubble screen is a running play for a wr, that is all

that does tell you a lot more

http://www.cfbstats.com/2013/leader/national/team/offense/situational01/category02/sort08.html

not many good teams behind us in that category.

 

[sutomcat]

I think Gmac will be fine. My guess is they saw some things on film for Wake and tried to exploit them with the gameplan. Wake came out with 8 in the box and three deep coverage. We ended up with 25 yards in the first quarter. We ended up with 325 over the next 3. I thought he made some nice adjustments by taking what Wake gave him. If they are going to play 8 yards off the wideouts, why wouldn't you bubble screen them to death? I'll take 5 yards on that play all day.

He is learning on the job -- I am seeing enough out of him to know he is not Pariani 2.0. I am a big, big Marrone fan. Be he didn't exactly leave us with top 25 talent. Our QB is very raw, and coming out of NYC doesn't help. They have basically given him a 1 read offense to work with. Our top 4 Wr's consist of a trues possession guy, a converted QB that is playing WR for the first time, a true frosh who played db in high school, and a juco afterthought who weights 160 pounds.

Forget about who we replaced. Because 1st round LT's out of Syracuse happen ALL the time. Throw on a new system and there are going to be issues. His offense is predicated on getting the ball to athletes and letting them do their thing. Time shall tell. But for a guy who gives P and D all the rope in the world, you're pretty quick to tear a "non-SU" guy a new one.

Agree, even with the 6 straight quarters of 0 points, there are mitigating factors here that George cannot control. We have serious issues at the WR and TE positions, the OL shows signs of being solid at times but I think it is generous to say they have been inconsistent in league play. And you are going to have growing pains with a new QB even under the best of circumstances. Changing the offense completely from the previous season just made a tough situation even worse.

It was disturbing to see a bad game plan 2 weeks ago against G Tech. It was really disturbing to see no progress made in the 2nd half of that game; if there were adjustments made, they were completely ineffective.

I was really concerned with the play calling in the 1st half. I think we had 1 first down up until that last drive just before halftime, and the only reason we had a drive then was because of a blown coverage by Wake Forest on a 3rd and long that should never have happened.

I can even somewhat understand why Jerome played so little in the first half. Wake was playing 8 men in the box and George wanted PTG in to serve as another option in the passing game. But it is hard to defend getting Smith so few touches over the last few games given his consistent ability to produce. Run out of 4 or 5 WR formations, force Wake to defend the whole field; Jerome can be successful that way.

Anyway, I was really glad to see George made some adjustments at halftime that appeared to work. We only got 13 points and I think it happened in the span of 30 seconds, but we moved the ball a lot better, we made them pay for overplaying the game with the short passing game and when they tried to take that away, we hurt them with our running game.

It is a great sign when your OC is willing to take what the defense is giving him, instead of trying to impose his will on the defense regardless. I like George's guttiness; he isn't afraid to go against conventions, which I appreciate.

I think good OCs take time to develop. We invested a couple of years in Nathaniel before he became top notch. I would hate to see us spend a couple of years floundering on offense again but like I said, talent and inexperience are definitely playing a role in the offensive struggles. There is reason to think the young players will improve and I believe there is reason to think the talent level of our playmakers will also improve in years 2 and 3 of the GMac II era. I am not 100% sold on him but I think he is going to be fine as he grows into the position and the talent gets better and more experienced.

 

[storange]

Agree, even with the 6 straight quarters of 0 points, there are mitigating factors here that George cannot control. We have serious issues at the WR and TE positions, the OL shows signs of being solid at times but I think it is generous to say they have been inconsistent in league play. And you are going to have growing pains with a new QB even under the best of circumstances. Changing the offense completely from the previous season just made a tough situation even worse.

It was disturbing to see a bad game plan 2 weeks ago against G Tech. It was really disturbing to see no progress made in the 2nd half of that game; if there were adjustments made, they were completely ineffective.

I was really concerned with the play calling in the 1st half. I think we had 1 first down up until that last drive just before halftime, and the only reason we had a drive then was because of a blown coverage by Wake Forest on a 3rd and long that should never have happened.

I can even somewhat understand why Jerome played so little in the first half. Wake was playing 8 men in the box and George wanted PTG in to serve as another option in the passing game. But it is hard to defend getting Smith so few touches over the last few games given his consistent ability to produce. Run out of 4 or 5 WR formations, force Wake to defend the whole field; Jerome can be successful that way.

Anyway, I was really glad to see George made some adjustments at halftime that appeared to work. We only got 13 points and I think it happened in the span of 30 seconds, but we moved the ball a lot better, we made them pay for overplaying the game with the short passing game and when they tried to take that away, we hurt them with our running game.

It is a great sign when your OC is willing to take what the defense is giving him, instead of trying to impose his will on the defense regardless. I like George's guttiness; he isn't afraid to go against conventions, which I appreciate.

I think good OCs take time to develop. We invested a couple of years in Nathaniel before he became top notch. I would hate to see us spend a couple of years floundering on offense again but like I said, talent and inexperience are definitely playing a role in the offensive struggles. There is reason to think the young players will improve and I believe there is reason to think the talent level of our playmakers will also improve in years 2 and 3 of the GMac II era. I am not 100% sold on him but I think he is going to be fine as he grows into the position and the talent gets better and more experienced.

We had a TD pass dropped and a play stopped at the half yard line should have easily scored 21 or 28 pts in second half

 

[IthacaBarrel]

We had a TD pass dropped and a play stopped at the half yard line should have easily scored 21 or 28 pts in second half

Loeb thought he was going in, don't think he saw the hit coming otherwise I think he would gone airborne. Good call, again I don't think send Smith up the middle was the call, we don't overpower anyone

 

[RF2044]

Agree, even with the 6 straight quarters of 0 points, there are mitigating factors here that George cannot control. We have serious issues at the WR and TE positions, the OL shows signs of being solid at times but I think it is generous to say they have been inconsistent in league play. And you are going to have growing pains with a new QB even under the best of circumstances. Changing the offense completely from the previous season just made a tough situation even worse.

It was disturbing to see a bad game plan 2 weeks ago against G Tech. It was really disturbing to see no progress made in the 2nd half of that game; if there were adjustments made, they were completely ineffective.

I was really concerned with the play calling in the 1st half. I think we had 1 first down up until that last drive just before halftime, and the only reason we had a drive then was because of a blown coverage by Wake Forest on a 3rd and long that should never have happened.

I can even somewhat understand why Jerome played so little in the first half. Wake was playing 8 men in the box and George wanted PTG in to serve as another option in the passing game. But it is hard to defend getting Smith so few touches over the last few games given his consistent ability to produce. Run out of 4 or 5 WR formations, force Wake to defend the whole field; Jerome can be successful that way.

Anyway, I was really glad to see George made some adjustments at halftime that appeared to work. We only got 13 points and I think it happened in the span of 30 seconds, but we moved the ball a lot better, we made them pay for overplaying the game with the short passing game and when they tried to take that away, we hurt them with our running game.

It is a great sign when your OC is willing to take what the defense is giving him, instead of trying to impose his will on the defense regardless. I like George's guttiness; he isn't afraid to go against conventions, which I appreciate.

I think good OCs take time to develop. We invested a couple of years in Nathaniel before he became top notch. I would hate to see us spend a couple of years floundering on offense again but like I said, talent and inexperience are definitely playing a role in the offensive struggles. There is reason to think the young players will improve and I believe there is reason to think the talent level of our playmakers will also improve in years 2 and 3 of the GMac II era. I am not 100% sold on him but I think he is going to be fine as he grows into the position and the talent gets better and more experienced.

Great post, Tom.

 

[Scooch]

This board is nothing if it's not about digging in your heels and picking a side.

I should know. We can spot our own.

I think the biggest reason Hunt is still starting can be wrapped up in one false start by Beckett Wales. Hunt turns the next play into a TD. Would Allen throw a TD there into a tight window? Maybe, we'll never know. But I feel more comfortable with Hunt running the spread option. It doesn't help Hunt's QB rating, but gives us a desperately needed TD in a rock fight like that.

I agree with you that Allen looked better against GT. Victim of some drops and a drive killing personal foul call. But I didn't think he looked THAT much better. It was like we went from an inept QB to a possibly ok QB. And same situation as Hunt/Northwestern, it's not like Allen played that 2nd half against the best of GT's defense. I really thought we'd see him in the 2nd half against Wake, but in hindsight, I'm glad we didn't.

Man, remember this past summer when people were gushing that the QB and WR position were as deep as we've had here in ages!

Example #1,873,244 of how folks here overrate everything about this program.

I mean, we're diehards, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just... funny.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Man, remember this past summer when people were gushing that the QB and WR position were as deep as we've had here in ages!

Example #1,873,244 of how folks here overrate everything about this program.

I mean, we're diehards, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just... funny.

Agreed and I think it's pretty clear to see that we are definitely lacking there, even if we had two great receivers I don't think we have anyone to deliver the ball at this point