Kool Kid is awful

[Millhouse]

scoring offense vs bcs

2007 16.3
2008 15.8
2009 18.5
2010 18.5
2011 22.1
2012 30.2
2013 15.8

Too many turnovers at midfield. We look the same in yardage but worse in scoring. We have a ton of 30 yard drives ending in picks.

Scoring offense is Gergian... qb play.

 

[RF2044]

Man, remember this past summer when people were gushing that the QB and WR position were as deep as we've had here in ages!

Example #1,873,244 of how folks here overrate everything about this program.

I mean, we're diehards, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just... funny.

That's funny--I remember a lot of people expressing a great deal of concern about the lack of proven talent at WR, and bemoaning the lack of a go to guy from that group, sans Lemon / Sales.

 

[Scooch]

Agreed and I think it's pretty clear to see that we are definitely lacking there, even if we had two great receivers I don't think we have anyone to deliver the ball at this point

Just cracks me up how so many people spend January-August proclaiming how much better our talent is "now", and then spend September-December bemoaning the fact that our talent isn't good enough.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Man, remember this past summer when people were gushing that the QB and WR position were as deep as we've had here in ages!

Example #1,873,244 of how folks here overrate everything about this program.

I mean, we're diehards, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just... funny.

It's sad, but true.

 

[Scooch]

That's funny--I remember a lot of people expressing a great deal of concern about the lack of proven talent at WR, and bemoaning the lack of a go to guy from that group, sans Lemon / Sales.

What many posters did was worry about the lack of a go-to guy but temper that concern with proclamations about how deep the talent pool was at that spot. So "someone" would emerge.

And at QB people were downright giddy.

I'm not trying to play the "I told you so" game, because I never claim to know a damn thing about what our unproven talent may or may not do.

Just making the point how it's hard to take some criticism seriously when people are soooo convinced of their opinions before a snap is ever taken.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Man, remember this past summer when people were gushing that the QB and WR position were as deep as we've had here in ages!

Example #1,873,244 of how folks here overrate everything about this program.

I mean, we're diehards, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just... funny.

Not to be that guy but there were a few of us who sounded the alarm about the WR position over the summer.

 

[money3189]

Ahh, you're including the trick play he had for a TD. Take that and the other one over the middle for 10 yards or whatever, the bubble screens didn't get much. I remember commenting during the game that we had used that play 5 times at that point and each went for 3 yards or less. Add in those couple of flare type passes to PTG that went for 0 and a couple of others and I still maintain we did too much east west stuff.


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lol. Bees, just think about this. Is 5 yards on a run play good? of course it is. Bubble screens are like run plays. I think they should put it in the books as a run play instead of pass. They are thrown behind the line of scrimmage. Now we can start faking the bubbles and throw down the field. When Hunt gets better at that we will do that more often. Alot of our offense is based off the bubble. Watch the games. We are able to run better because of the threat of bubbles.

 

[Orijinal]

Kool Kid is the nickname OttoinGrotto gave him and is meant to be complimentary and that is the way I use it. Dougie is another matter!

Actually, if you look through the history, I gave him the nickname. Cool Kid. And it wasn't complimentary.

 

[rrlbees]

lol. Bees, just think about this. Is 5 yards on a run play good? of course it is. Bubble screens are like run plays. I think they should put it in the books as a run play instead of pass. They are thrown behind the line of scrimmage. Now we can start faking the bubbles and throw down the field. When Hunt gets better at that we will do that more often. Alot of our offense is based off the bubble. Watch the games. We are able to run better because of the threat of bubbles.

I checked again and 5 of them went for 3 or less. Two of the same type flat passes to Gulley went for zero. Another to Broyld misfired.

I understand of one type of play setting up something else, but we over did it. We ran fine the one series that ended in a TD. And I can assure you the games we did run very well, we didn't have to run all these bubbles and flat type flares to be effective. If it's such an effective tool, why not every game? Too much east west overall. Plenty of teams out 8 in a box, I don't see everyone else running 99 bubbles.


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[supp]

what are you guys seeing that makes you think mcdonald is trying to do something totally unique and innovative that's all his own?

i don't see it.

Hey, I just want to know what was wrong with running the offense we ran last year? Why re-invent the wheel? I understand comfort level of the coaches with their own schemes, but what about the players? The only reason to do it is to put your personal stamp on the team, to show everyone you can.

 

[Millhouse]

Hey, I just want to know what was wrong with running the offense we ran last year? Why re-invent the wheel? I understand comfort level of the coaches with their own schemes, but what about the players? The only reason to do it is to put your personal stamp on the team, to show everyone you can.

mcdonald wasn't here last year. how is he supposed to run the same offense? watch some games and figure it out? easier said than done and who knows what offense would've run this year anyway with this group

 

[Orijinal]

I remember somebody in the Marrone era saying that in 2012 we would be fine...

And we were. Didn't Syracuse go 8-5 that year with a victory in the Pinstripe Bowl?

 

[JeremyCuse]

The issue isn't whether the bubble screen was successful Saturday its whether its something we can utilize to jump start this offense moving forward. A couple bubble screens a game are fine to run but unless were playing Wagner every week I am not sure thats a staple we want to try and rely on. Running 10 bubble screens against FSU will result in Estime or Brolyd being sent to the hospital or Hunt throwing a pick six.

Syracuse needs to re-develop the intermediate passing game, 12-20 yard pass patters. Re-watch the USF,Mizzou and Lvile games from last year we were killing teams with Lemon and Sales running those routes. We should be running guys like West, Moore, Funderburk, Cornelius through those types of curls, rub routes, crosses, deep slants double moves etc until they can duplicate them blindfolded in the fine lot after a six hours of drinking. Establishing an intermediate passing game will open up PTG and Jerome in the running game and guys like Estime deep and Broyld underneath.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

And we were. Didn't Syracuse go 8-5 that year with a victory in the Pinstripe Bowl?

Yes so that person wanting patience for that OC was well---- right

 

[Orijinal]

Run out of 4 or 5 WR formations, force Wake to defend the whole field; Jerome can be successful that way.

Hmm. I like it! Triple-star this post.

 

[RF2044]

What many posters did was worry about the lack of a go-to guy but temper that concern with proclamations about how deep the talent pool was at that spot. So "someone" would emerge.

And at QB people were downright giddy.

I'm not trying to play the "I told you so" game, because I never claim to know a damn thing about what our unproven talent may or may not do.

Just making the point how it's hard to take some criticism seriously when people are soooo convinced of their opinions before a snap is ever taken.

I got you.

And I was probably one of those cautiously optimistic about what Allen would bring to the table at QB--oops. But I was terrified about what we had at WR. Lots of possession guys and no lead man. It isn't a guarantee that players automatically shift from the third / fourth option to 1 / 2 just due to attrition--that's what I really feared heading into this year.

 

[Orijinal]

Yes so that person wanting patience for that OC was well---- right

I absolutely believe in patience with new coaches. No doubt. Maybe we'll be okay in 2015, maybe we won't. McDonald has a history of moving on. So what if he gets just a little good? That's good for Syracuse, unless he leaves. And then we're saying, "in 2017 we'll be fine."

 

[money3189]

I checked again and 5 of them went for 3 or less. Two of the same type flat passes to Gulley went for zero. Another to Broyld misfired.

I understand of one type of play setting up something else, but we over did it. We ran fine the one series that ended in a TD. And I can assure you the games we did run very well, we didn't have to run all these bubbles and flat type flares to be effective. If it's such an effective tool, why not every game? Too much east west overall. Plenty of teams out 8 in a box, I don't see everyone else running 99 bubbles.


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everyone run bubbles my man. We are very limited on offense. Cant throw down field. Hunt have to stay in there to open up the run game and give gulley and jerome run lanes

 

[Scooch]

I got you.

And I was probably one of those cautiously optimistic about what Allen would bring to the table at QB--oops. But I was terrified about what we had at WR. Lots of possession guys and no lead man. It isn't a guarantee that players automatically shift from the third / fourth option to 1 / 2 just due to attrition--that's what I really feared heading into this year.

I hear you, I figured Allen would be good because he was a highly regarded recruit coming from a football hotbed. Oops as well.

Specific to this thread... I have no idea if McDonald is a good OC or not. Time will certainly tell.

I do find it amusing that for three years any critique of the offense was met with strident rebuttals of "no talent!" and "worst BCS program in America!".

Now we've lost 4 huge contributors (mostly recruited by the dope who preceded our most-recent coach) but the guys who have inherited this offensive rebuild aren't getting cut much slack.

It's such an odd debate. If you accept that our talent isn't as good as the pollyannas thought, well then who's to blame for that? Yet that regime is sainted due to the success they had, in year 4 with the other guy's best players. Odd.

 

[RF2044]

I absolutely believe in patience with new coaches. No doubt. Maybe we'll be okay in 2015, maybe we won't. McDonald has a history of moving on. So what if he gets just a little good? That's good for Syracuse, unless he leaves. And then we're saying, "in 2017 we'll be fine."

I honestly think that fielding a successful team comes down to three main factors: coaching, talent, and schemes [yes, I know that this is a gross simplification].

Anyone who didn't think [not directed specifically at you, Orijinal] that there would be some speed bumps bringing in virtually an entirely new coaching staff probably wasn't being realistic. Especially when a few of these guys are in stretch roles, given their past work experience.

We also were facing talent limitations as a couple of key positions. Marrone did a great job overhauling the roster from Gerg levels, but the job wasn't finished even though vast improvement was made at most positional units. Most, but not all. Really, him departing when he did put us in a compromising position; would have been nice to see Marrone stick around for another year or two, just to place the program on more stable footing--but it is what it is. The good news is that these guys seem to be good recruiters. And hopefully, some of these prospects pan out sooner rather than later at QB / WR. Because that's what we need.

The schemes seem fine to me--CIL has a good post about this above. The playcalling and general execution are what's lacking. It will be interesting to see whether this changes moving forward, once the coaching staff gets a little experience under their collective belts, once some adjustments are made to the staff [if any], once the talent improves a little, and once the players have been immersed in the system for a year.

To me, that isn't a "wait until next year" point of view--it is more about recognizing that this year was bound to be a little rocky, but optimistic that things will eventually iron out [as they did for Marrone]. And of Shafer and MacDonald ultimately end up showing that they aren't cut out to be successful, then we'll have to move on quickly or risk a serious back slide. But as IthacaBarrel stated above, I'm willing to cut these guys a little slack as first year coaches, primarily because of the recruiting factor.

 

[Orijinal]

Syracuse needs to re-develop the intermediate passing game, 12-20 yard pass patters. Re-watch the USF,Mizzou and Lvile games from last year we were killing teams with Lemon and Sales running those routes. We should be running guys like West, Moore, Funderburk, Cornelius through those types of curls, rub routes, crosses, deep slants double moves etc until they can duplicate them blindfolded in the fine lot after a six hours of drinking. Establishing an intermediate passing game will open up PTG and Jerome in the running game and guys like Estime deep and Broyld underneath.

Yes and Yes. And the way you get good at those kind of routes? Repetition and repetition. Is room being made for that kind of repetition during offensive practices, or do we have too many other options and formations to work on? I will say this for McDonald though: I know Hunt overthrew his deep balls against Wake, but that actually showed improvement. Hunt was under-throwing and throwing behind his WR's all day against NC State and got the team into a lot of trouble. How did he improve? Repetition.

 

[DPCuse]

It's obvious to me. Our offense is serviceable if we are in close games. We do not have "catch up" kind of skill. As long as the game is close, we can grind it out and win with our defense. Similar to 2001. However, if we get behind by 2 or 3 TDs, forget it.

 

[Crusty]

Actually, if you look through the history, I gave him the nickname. Cool Kid. And it wasn't complimentary.

Aha, I stand corrected - many pardons.

 

[CIL]

Ok, so 8 for 37 -- or 4.5 per catch. Throw in Clark's 3 for 19 and we have what, 11 bubbles for 54 yards? Pretty much 5 yards a clip. They are essentially runs. I think most here would take 5 yards a carry from anyone.

 

[CIL]

everyone around here has a bad taste in their mouth about bubble screens from rob spence, who totally misunderstood the point.

there are a million great offenses that take 5 yard chunks when given to them. it's a gift from the defense. our problem is that we don't have a qb who can make anyone pay for taking away the bubble screen.

Muy guess is that's why we moved Broylf to the outside. Big fast kid that can get off the line and get deep. Force them to back off should they decide to press the line. Now, if Hunt can hit one...although I must say his deep ball is looking better, not great, but better. Just missed West on a tough throw. The one he missed to Broyld I give him a bit of a pass on as he was under some heat there and didn't get time to set.