Looking ahead - Next years Roster

[GoSU96]

It’s caused issues inside the locker room.

do you know that?

 

[GoSU96]

As far as transfers, offer every juco NT you can.

regarding the OL, the only people who can make that assessment is the staff, because nobody else has seen enough of what’s on the roster to judge

as for wr, the remainder of the year should be an extended try out for the freshmen

 

[JRHEETER]

do you know that?

Yes

 

[tep624]

Are you sure TD is still going to be here next season?

He graduates in December if I’m not mistaken...and some of his dads posts have been awful cryptic about him leaving.

we need to get a couple OL transfers and at least 1 big bodied WR from the portal.

The OL is the big one. There can be night and day turnaround if we can get that unit straightened out.

 

[JRHEETER]

The OL is the big one. There can be night and day turnaround if we can get that unit straightened out.

Yes I agree, I think our offense hinges on the OL and we will only go as far as the OL takes us.

Also we need a better #1 receiver. A kid with attitude and weighs 164 lbs ain’t it.

 

[tep624]

Yes I agree, I think our offense hinges on the OL and we will only go as far as the OL takes us.

Also we need a better #1 receiver. A kid with attitude and weighs 164 lbs ain’t it.

2018 was very telling as to what it takes for this offense to function well irrespective of who is at the QB position. 2016/2017 generally we only did well when Dungey was available, because his mobility compensated for some of the line issues. 2019 the line eroded and we were very inconsistent with Devito, a much less mobile QB, running for his life most games. 2020 is Deja Vu to 2016/2017/2019. We cannot have a functioning offense in this system without a top flight dual threat QB or a very solid OL. If we have both at the same time (2018), then we're a top 10/15 team.

 

[RF2044]

The OL is the big one. There can be night and day turnaround if we can get that unit straightened out.

Agree 1000%

 

[HRE Otto IV]

2018 was very telling as to what it takes for this offense to function well irrespective of who is at the QB position. 2016/2017 generally we only did well when Dungey was available, because his mobility compensated for some of the line issues. 2019 the line eroded and we were very inconsistent with Devito, a much less mobile QB, running for his life most games. 2020 is Deja Vu to 2016/2017/2019. We cannot have a functioning offense in this system without a top flight dual threat QB or a very solid OL. If we have both at the same time (2018), then we're a top 10/15 team.

I don't think that the 2018 OL was very solid. Our ypc that year was 8th within the conference, tied for 9th when you include all games. Sacks allowed was 8th within conference, and 13th for all games. So both of those were slightly below average compared to the entire ACC. That OL was miles ahead of what we have seen the last two years, but they were average at best.

If we had that OL last year or this year IMO we would still struggle on O, just not as bad as the mess we have seen. Teams aren't hesitant to go rush the passer without a true dual threat back there. So the 2018 OL would have had its hands full if they were all back in 2019. Also Dungey kept the D honest with our running game. Without a dual threat we can overcommit to those inside runs without fear of the QB punishing you. Dungey helped to open those RB runs. Even with that help, our RBs were 9th and 17th in YPC within conference games. So that OL wouldn't have been as successful with the run in 2019 either. Or to put it another way if 2019/20 TD was QB in 2018, the OL would have struggled to prevent sacks and open up running lanes.

 

[tep624]

I don't think that the 2018 OL was very solid. Our ypc that year was 8th within the conference, tied for 9th when you include all games. Sacks allowed was 8th within conference, and 13th for all games. So both of those were slightly below average compared to the entire ACC. That OL was miles ahead of what we have seen the last two years, but they were average at best.

If we had that OL last year or this year IMO we would still struggle on O, just not as bad as the mess we have seen. Teams aren't hesitant to go rush the passer without a true dual threat back there. So the 2018 OL would have had its hands full if they were all back in 2019. Also Dungey kept the D honest with our running game. Without a dual threat we can overcommit to those inside runs without fear of the QB punishing you. Dungey helped to open those RB runs. Even with that help, our RBs were 9th and 17th in YPC within conference games. So that OL wouldn't have been as successful with the run in 2019 either. Or to put it another way if 2019/20 TD was QB in 2018, the OL would have struggled to prevent sacks and open up running lanes.

2018 COLLEGE FOOTBALL OFFENSIVE LINE STATS | Football Outsiders

2018 NCAA offensive line stats

www.footballoutsiders.com

Our line actually graded comparatively well on all statistics outside of sacks allowed. And our sack rate spiked on passing downs. Dungey actually contributed to this because he had a tendency to hold onto the ball too long rather than throw it away on passing downs. His scrambling ability was a double edged sword on those plays at time. Moe ran for almost 900 yards with a 5.6 avg so he seemed to do pretty well behind that line.

 

[RF2044]

I don't think that the 2018 OL was very solid. Our ypc that year was 8th within the conference, tied for 9th when you include all games. Sacks allowed was 8th within conference, and 13th for all games. So both of those were slightly below average compared to the entire ACC. That OL was miles ahead of what we have seen the last two years, but they were average at best.

If we had that OL last year or this year IMO we would still struggle on O, just not as bad as the mess we have seen. Teams aren't hesitant to go rush the passer without a true dual threat back there. So the 2018 OL would have had its hands full if they were all back in 2019. Also Dungey kept the D honest with our running game. Without a dual threat we can overcommit to those inside runs without fear of the QB punishing you. Dungey helped to open those RB runs. Even with that help, our RBs were 9th and 17th in YPC within conference games. So that OL wouldn't have been as successful with the run in 2019 either. Or to put it another way if 2019/20 TD was QB in 2018, the OL would have struggled to prevent sacks and open up running lanes.

I don't completely agree -- but I do think Dungey masked a lot of sins with his mobility. Line was better because our tackles were better than usual, but it was still relatively average [especially on the interior].

Dungey would feel the pressure and make plays on the run that looked "easy," so I think the perception is that the OL was better than what it was -- when in reality, it was just Dungey doing things most other QBs can't do.

 

[GoSU96]

Yes

how?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I don't completely agree -- but I do think Dungey masked a lot of sins with his mobility. Line was better because our tackles were better than usual, but it was still relatively average [especially on the interior].

Dungey would feel the pressure and make plays on the run that looked "easy," so I think the perception is that the OL was better than what it was -- when in reality, it was just Dungey doing things most other QBs can't do.

How many times the last two years have you seen teams selling out against the inside run? It is like they know the play. That wasn't happening with Dungey for fear that he would keep the ball and run outside.

Most DCs are hesitant to bring more than 4 guys in the pass rush vs a running QB. Some will even keep a guy as a spy and not really in coverage. It is a lot easier for an OL to pass block when there aren't as many blitzes and the DL is generally trying to stay in their lane and keep the QB in the pocket. That being said the 2019 OL would struggled blocking 2 guys, so they were much worse. But IMO the 2018 OL was average at best.

We know with a dual threat QB and an average OL we can win a lot of games. We know when we have a dual threat QB and a below average OL we will have a losing season, but an occasional moment of greatness (Clemson, VA Tech). We know when we don't have a dual threat QB nor an average OL we have a cluster F. We do not know what we will have with an average OL without a dual threat QB. IMO at best that is a 6-6 team.

Historically SU has struggled to have a strong OL. Which should make the need for a dual threat QB a must.

 

[RF2044]

How many times the last two years have you seen teams selling out against the inside run? It is like they know the play. That wasn't happening with Dungey for fear that he would keep the ball and run outside.

Most DCs are hesitant to bring more than 4 guys in the pass rush vs a running QB. Some will even keep a guy as a spy and not really in coverage. It is a lot easier for an OL to pass block when there aren't as many blitzes and the DL is generally trying to stay in their lane and keep the QB in the pocket. That being said the 2019 OL would struggled blocking 2 guys, so they were much worse. But IMO the 2018 OL was average at best.

We know with a dual threat QB and an average OL we can win a lot of games. We know when we have a dual threat QB and a below average OL we will have a losing season, but an occasional moment of greatness (Clemson, VA Tech). We know when we don't have a dual threat QB nor an average OL we have a cluster F. We do not know what we will have with an average OL without a dual threat QB. IMO at best that is a 6-6 team.

Historically SU has struggled to have a strong OL. Which should make the need for a dual threat QB a must.

To clarify, I didn't agree with the line only being average -- I think that they were better than that in 2018, and substantially better than what we normally have due to Conway and Koda Martin [who had been an SEC-caliber starter at A&M].

I don't disagree with the rest of what you're saying in this post or the previous one.

 

[tep624]

To clarify, I didn't agree with the line only being average -- I think that they were better than that in 2018, and substantially better than what we normally have due to Conway and Koda Martin [who had been an SEC-caliber starter at A&M].

I don't disagree with the rest of what you're saying in this post or the previous one.

You can’t simply look at sacks allowed and ypc as the be all and end all of grading a line. It’s a simplistic view and quite frankly unfair.

I think people also forget it took 3 games or so for Koda to really get in a groove.

 

[upperdeck]

You dont need a QB who can run as much as you need a QB that slides in the pocket and doesnt panic. ours step back and thats almost never good.

 

[Cusefan69]

Can this thread be pinned? Go put together some nice framing by position that would be handy to bounce back to from time to time, especially as recruiting picks up by year end.

 

[sufandu]

Are you sure TD is still going to be here next season?

He graduates in December if I’m not mistaken...and some of his dads posts have been awful cryptic about him leaving.

we need to get a couple OL transfers and at least 1 big bodied WR from the portal.

Instead of reading into some of his posts, why not pay more attention to what he has stated. He has been pretty clear TD intends to come back and feels like he has unfinished business here.

 

[baggerbob]

As far as transfers, offer every juco NT you can.

regarding the OL, the only people who can make that assessment is the staff, because nobody else has seen enough of what’s on the roster to judge

as for wr, the remainder of the year should be an extended try out for the freshmen

We need at least 2 players like Steven Clark, and Chris Slayton. Players who have a nasty streak, and want to punish offensive players.

 

[elimunelson]

We need a transfer QB above all else. Someone who has something to prove. I don't know how you underground source these but I sure as hell hope we are sniffing around at the Floridas, Ohio States, Texas, etc to see if there is someone layered there.

If Syracuse had Kevin Mason this year we'd be 2 wins better right now. Think about that.

 

[tep624]

We need a transfer QB above all else. Someone who has something to prove. I don't know how you underground source these but I sure as hell hope we are sniffing around at the Floridas, Ohio States, Texas, etc to see if there is someone layered there.

If Syracuse had Kevin Mason this year we'd be 2 wins better right now. Think about that.

P5 starter quality Grad Transfer QB and OT would be fantastic. I hope the staff is leaving no rock unturned.

 

[Orangefizz]

If tommy is still the starter I think the ceiling is 5-6 wins. Need someone who can extend plays and not panic when the first option isn’t there.

Taison Phomachaun if he decides sitting on the bench at Clemson for his college career isn’t what he signed up for as a stud QB from CT

 

[Redrum]

i said it before this game that this was a must win , prior to this game getting transfers for next year was paramount, now it’s about keeping your best players

They went really hard after that QB transfer last offseason who ended up at USF. What might have been.

I just saw we offered a JUCO NT -- hope we land him.

are you saying if we got cade fortin he would have done something this year and is better then Tommy ?

 

[IthacaMatt]

I really don’t get this. He was very good two years ago. Why the regression?

Thinking he's a movie star, and perhaps not putting in the necessary work.
I mean, I can't imagine why people are going right past him like he's standing still. I just don't get it.
But there's no denying that he's terrible now. Probably the worst guy on the line, or at least he was last year.
This year, there are a lot of candidates, unfortunately.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Taison Phomachaun if he decides sitting on the bench at Clemson for his college career isn’t what he signed up for as a stud QB from CT

There’s probably 30 other schools that offer playing time without fearing for his life. Being 1-10 takes us out of the running for many of these higher end transfers. We’re the dane still sitting at the bar when the lights come on at 2am.

 

[Orangefizz]

There’s probably 30 other schools that offer playing time without fearing for his life. Being 1-10 takes us out of the running for many of these higher end transfers. We’re the dane still sitting at the bar when the lights come on at 2am.

I get your point but Liberty had a former stud P5 QB and they’re lower on the pecking order than we are. What other P5 school is better for a former star Northeast QB??