Marrone

[anomander]

hopefully those people have learned. i'm just talking about the coaches' #1 qbs

I doubt it. I'm sure the first time he misses a couple swing passes people will be calling for Dungy, or whoever else is backing him up. I've always supported Hunt, not because I think he's the best qb in the world, but because he was easily the best we had.

 

[anomander]

Ok, so we can both agree that Marrone is a "very good" coach. The issue under debate, and this has been my point throughout this thread, was whether or not Shafer is a also "very good" HC. There is very little evidence that he is at this time; you believe he is despite the lack of success. We can respectfully disagree on that one.

As for the your belief that being hired as an NFL coach "means nothing" relative to a coach's ability...that's just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Me either. You aren't coveted by multiple NFL franchises unless you know what the hell you are doing. I actually thought more people would be impressed what he did with the Bills this year despite having to throw Kyle Orton out there for the majority of the season.

 

[Millhouse]

Using SRS again by season.

Maloney's average SRS was better than marrones. His best SRS was better than Marrone's best. His worst SRS was better than Marrone's worst. His best two year and three year stretches were better than marrone's best two and three year stretches.

marrone's worst year was one spot higher in the rankings than Shafer's worst year. marrone's worst 2 year stretch was one spot worse than Shafer's two year stretch. marrone's best year and two best consecutive years are better than Shafer's.

 

[007]

Me either. You aren't coveted by multiple NFL franchises unless you know what the hell you are doing. I actually thought more people would be impressed what he did with the Bills this year despite having to throw Kyle Orton out there for the majority of the season.

The lack of respect for Marrone's ability on this board is childish at times and completely unfounded.

From NFL.com: Highly regarded prior to joining the Bills two years ago, Marrone would join Broncos offensive coordinator Adam Gase atop the list of offensive minds if he becomes available.

From Adam Shefter: "Some people have suggested that he wouldn't go without having a head-coaching opportunity, to which I would say, if Doug Marrone is on the market, he doesn't have to know if there will be one: there will be one. Because when he was coming out a couple years back and interviewing along with the likes of Chip Kelly and Bill O'Brien, there were a couple of different executives that told me that they thought that Doug Marrone would be the most successful head coach of that bunch.

"If Doug Marrone were to hit the marketplace tomorrow, to me, he instantly becomes maybe the top guy on the street available for another team to hire and I think he'd get action right away. Right away.

"It's a situation where he has (to) determine what he wants to do. That's going to be his call here in the next three days. We'll see what he decides. I don't think it's a dead-lock clinch, an automatic thing that he's back in Buffalo. It's not like this clause exists and it's like, 'OK, yeah, we're fine, everything's fine and dandy and we're gonna go on.' Would it floor me if he opted out? Not at all."

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/16672/doug-marrones-opt-out-clause-comes-into-focus

 

[Millhouse]

The lack of respect for Marrone's ability on this board is childish at times and completely unfounded.

From NFL.com: Highly regarded prior to joining the Bills two years ago, Marrone would join Broncos offensive coordinator Adam Gase atop the list of offensive minds if he becomes available.

From Adam Shefter: "Some people have suggested that he wouldn't go without having a head-coaching opportunity, to which I would say, if Doug Marrone is on the market, he doesn't have to know if there will be one: there will be one. Because when he was coming out a couple years back and interviewing along with the likes of Chip Kelly and Bill O'Brien, there were a couple of different executives that told me that they thought that Doug Marrone would be the most successful head coach of that bunch.

"If Doug Marrone were to hit the marketplace tomorrow, to me, he instantly becomes maybe the top guy on the street available for another team to hire and I think he'd get action right away. Right away.

"It's a situation where he has (to) determine what he wants to do. That's going to be his call here in the next three days. We'll see what he decides. I don't think it's a dead-lock clinch, an automatic thing that he's back in Buffalo. It's not like this clause exists and it's like, 'OK, yeah, we're fine, everything's fine and dandy and we're gonna go on.' Would it floor me if he opted out? Not at all."

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/16672/doug-marrones-opt-out-clause-comes-into-focus

part of the reason they thought marrone would be more successful than chip kelly is because these NFL meatheads were so dismissive and wrong about kelly

marrone won't leave unless there's a job and if he doesn't leave, they can pretend like there were still jobs for him. there's no way for schefter to be wrong here

 

[Full_Rebar]

Mike Smith went to a few playoffs no? I mean the Bills haven't been to the playoffs since Doug Flutie right?

He did, but I believe they also lost twice at home, and his clock management directly cost them two games this year and a home playoff game against Arizona.

 

[anomander]

The lack of respect for Marrone's ability on this board is childish at times and completely unfounded.

From NFL.com: Highly regarded prior to joining the Bills two years ago, Marrone would join Broncos offensive coordinator Adam Gase atop the list of offensive minds if he becomes available.

From Adam Shefter: "Some people have suggested that he wouldn't go without having a head-coaching opportunity, to which I would say, if Doug Marrone is on the market, he doesn't have to know if there will be one: there will be one. Because when he was coming out a couple years back and interviewing along with the likes of Chip Kelly and Bill O'Brien, there were a couple of different executives that told me that they thought that Doug Marrone would be the most successful head coach of that bunch.

"If Doug Marrone were to hit the marketplace tomorrow, to me, he instantly becomes maybe the top guy on the street available for another team to hire and I think he'd get action right away. Right away.

"It's a situation where he has (to) determine what he wants to do. That's going to be his call here in the next three days. We'll see what he decides. I don't think it's a dead-lock clinch, an automatic thing that he's back in Buffalo. It's not like this clause exists and it's like, 'OK, yeah, we're fine, everything's fine and dandy and we're gonna go on.' Would it floor me if he opted out? Not at all."

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/16672/doug-marrones-opt-out-clause-comes-into-focus

Amazing isn't it? Despite some of the best football minds in the business giving Marrone praise like this, he's still not good enough for most people here. It's like he's easily replaceable. Don't worry we have Scott Shafer on deck to step right in and everything will remain status-quo. And that's not really a knock on Shafer, but more of praise for Marrone. The whole hatred, no big loss stuff is totally mind numbing.

 

[Millhouse]

Amazing isn't it? Despite some of the best football minds in the business giving Marrone praise like this, he's still not good enough for most people here. It's like he's easily replaceable. Don't worry we have Scott Shafer on deck to step right in and everything will remain status-quo. And that's not really a knock on Shafer, but more of praise for Marrone. The whole hatred, no big loss stuff is totally mind numbing.

it is pretty close to status quo though. marrone had 1.5 more wins per season than shafer with easier schedules.

 

[RF2044]

Amazing isn't it? Despite some of the best football minds in the business giving Marrone praise like this, he's still not good enough for most people here. It's like he's easily replaceable. Don't worry we have Scott Shafer on deck to step right in and everything will remain status-quo. And that's not really a knock on Shafer, but more of praise for Marrone. The whole hatred, no big loss stuff is totally mind numbing.

I'm with you and 007. I think it is completely fair to acknowledge that while he seems to excel at building programs / righting the ship, it is unproven whether he can take things to the next level. Very fair point to debate, IMO.

But I think plenty of posters are sour on him given the circumstances of his departure and that he ransacked the staff on the way out. And right wrong or indifferent, that clouds their perspective on Marrone. Guy can coach. And what he accomplished here, taking over the worst P5 team in college football and making them competitive in relatively short order, was an impressive feat that transcends his record to an extent. Yes, he is hovering only slightly above .500 or whatever for his record at SU, but that doesn't tell the contextual story viewed in a vacuum.

 

[007]

part of the reason they thought marrone would be more successful than chip kelly is because these NFL meatheads were so dismissive and wrong about kelly

marrone won't leave unless there's a job and if he doesn't leave, they can pretend like there were still jobs for him. there's no way for schefter to be wrong here

and what if shefter et al are right and marrone is fielding calls as we type? marrone was hired on merit, not because the "meatheads" were so dismissive about kelly. and it sure looks like others in the NFL share the opinion that he is an NFL capable HC. Be careful what you wish for, Bills fan.

 

[anomander]

it is pretty close to status quo though. marrone had 1.5 more wins per season than shafer with easier schedules.

Yes but put into perspective where we were coming from. I'm not sure what people expected? People want to get on him about recruiting, but again look at what he was dealing with. We had bottom of the barrel facilities until upgrades were completed in 2012, and the only thing we had to sell was things couldn't possibly get worse from a 10-37 four year stretch. I'm extremely confident if Marrone stayed on board we would be a whole lot better then 10-16 the last 2 years.

 

[Millhouse]

and what if shefter et al are right and marrone is fielding calls as we type? marrone was hired on merit, not because the "meatheads" were so dismissive about kelly. and it sure looks like others in the NFL share the opinion that he is an NFL capable HC. Be careful what you wish for, Bills fan.

i'm not saying he isn't getting calls. i'm well aware than NFL teams hire coaches with sub .500 records. fire marshall jauron comes to mind. plenty of NFL teams will hire coaches worse than marrone. i just take these NFL stooges with grains of salt now. peter parrot king during the ray rice stuff revealed how gullible they can be

 

[Millhouse]

Yes but put into perspective where we were coming from. I'm not sure what people expected? People want to get on him about recruiting, but again look at what he was dealing with. We had bottom of the barrel facilities until upgrades were completed in 2012, and the only thing we had to sell was things couldn't possibly get worse from a 10-37 four year stretch. I'm extremely confident if Marrone stayed on board we would be a whole lot better then 10-16 the last 2 years.

but he didn't stay. look at what shafer was left with.

i think our record would've been better with marrone too but that's because we might've had a QB. hard to fault shafer for that.

 

[chakka3421]

Nothing, I mean nothing, gets Millhouse more riled up than when something positive is said about Marrone. Awesome!

Anyway, Nassib to the Bills...rumors, just rumors right now...

 

[anomander]

but he didn't stay. look at what shafer was left with.

i think our record would've been better with marrone too but that's because we might've had a QB. hard to fault shafer for that.

I'm not really faulting Shafer, but the reason we apparently promoted Shafer was to keep the continuity Marrone had established. That really didn't happen, nor do I fault Shafer for it, but that's the type of BS we were fed by Gross thinking we are just stupid fans. We totally changed our offensive philosophy despite finally finding something we had success with, and the current roster was recruited for. Is it Shafer's fault, no, of course not, but you can't put the blame on Marrone either since HCSS made the decision to go a different route with the O.

 

[Rocco]

yes that levy. very dumb post

Dumb post? Enlighten me...

 

[Millhouse]

Dumb post? Enlighten me...

putting down levy for not winning a super bowl really puts down marrone (who has two pinstripe bowls to his credit) and everyone else aside from a group of 22 guys, many of whom are dead.

 

[Chip]

Dumb post? Enlighten me...

It was pretty bad Rocco. You should just let it go. You just arbitrarily make up rules like Super Bowl appearances do not matter. Even if you get to 4 in a row.

 

[007]

i'm not saying he isn't getting calls. i'm well aware than NFL teams hire coaches with sub .500 records. fire marshall jauron comes to mind. plenty of NFL teams will hire coaches worse than marrone. i just take these NFL stooges with grains of salt now. peter parrot king during the ray rice stuff revealed how gullible they can be

got it. i think it's more that your Marrone as Pinocchio avatar led me to believe that your objectivity might be clouded.

 

[Crusty]

Amazing isn't it? Despite some of the best football minds in the business giving Marrone praise like this, he's still not good enough for most people here. It's like he's easily replaceable. Don't worry we have Scott Shafer on deck to step right in and everything will remain status-quo. And that's not really a knock on Shafer, but more of praise for Marrone. The whole hatred, no big loss stuff is totally mind numbing.

Now you are grossly exaggerating the situation. Just because some of us are not willing to make him Saint Doug, doesn't mean that we think he is easily replaced or is "still not good enough" (whatever that is supposed to mean). There is vast difference between opinions and accomplishments. So far, Marrone has a good but not great record. A couple of bad breaks resulting in a losing season next year and his stock will drop.

BTW - every coach that has ever been hired in the NFL had good references or they would not have been hired.

 

[OrangePA]

I think it is a little too early to call Marrone a "great" coach. So far he has demonstrated an ability to improve horrible programs, but he has not done anything more than that - at least not yet. While he is a good planner he is average at best as a game manager. It will be interesting to see what they both do in the couple of years.

In 2012 Marrone game-managed the team to eight wins.

And he did so with a series of late comeback wins.

He game managed quite well.

 

[anomander]

Now you are grossly exaggerating the situation. Just because some of us are not willing to make him Saint Doug, doesn't mean that we think he is easily replaced or is "still not good enough" (whatever that is supposed to mean). There is vast difference between opinions and accomplishments. So far, Marrone has a good but not great record. A couple of bad breaks resulting in a losing season next year and his stock will drop.

BTW - every coach that has ever been hired in the NFL had good references or they would not have been hired.

I don't know do you read some of the posts on this board about him? I really don't think i'm over exaggerating?

 

[BuffOrange]

If they're still 9-7 in 2016 and that's where this tops out, I could agree with that thinking.

I see no reason to believe it won't. Performance on offense is more consistent from year to year than defense and Special Teams. Defense and Special Teams almost have to regress. They're unlikely to have a QB. The OL has gotten worse under the watch of a guy who is supposed to be an OL expert.
2015 has 2005 written all over it (when they were also coming off a fantastic defensive 9-7 yr under an offensive coach).
Again, the guy has gotten a ton of mileage out of Dave Wandsteadt sucking in 2012.

 

[GoSU96]

I see no reason to believe it won't. Performance on offense is more consistent from year to year than defense and Special Teams. Defense and Special Teams almost have to regress. They're unlikely to have a QB. The OL has gotten worse under the watch of a guy who is supposed to be an OL expert.
2015 has 2005 written all over it (when they were also coming off a fantastic defensive 9-7 yr under an offensive coach).
Again, the guy has gotten a ton of mileage out of Dave Wandsteadt sucking in 2012.

Yeah, because these guys have no history of developing an offensive line and offense. Nope, never, ever. Nothing.

 

[Full_Rebar]

Is Brian Hoyer a huge downgrade from Kyle Orton? Bigger question for Bills is getting the OL in order, but you'd expect the defense to be able to maintain their level of play w/ Alonso back and better health in the secondary.