Marrone

[Millhouse]

Have you seen the Bills head coaching over the past 15-20 years? Yeah, makes sense to dump Marrone because they can do better... that's likely to end well.

Ralph Wilson is gone

 

[OrangePA]

I don't measure P on that 1 bowl blowout. He had a great run with some great wins. But I measure him by the 16-20 record the last 3 years which included multiple blow out losses as well as embarrassing losses to teams like Temple and rutgirls. The program had gone stale. We were no longer having any success recruiting as shown by his last 3 classes and the fact we were failing in Florida and NJ, two places that had been so friendly to our recruiting classes. It was time.

Bees - Different argument.

Different series of issues.

Despite all of what you note he won six games, a conf crown and went bowling.

We'd take that next year in a heartbeat.

And hardly comparable to Greg.

 

[anomander]

Cowherd just announced that his "mystery guy" he spoke about weeks ago for Michigan was Marrone. He then praised Marrone as the "most underrated coach in the NFL". He said that until Buffalo beat Green Bay, Marrone's job at Buffalo was in jeopardy due to the uncertainty of new management in Buffalo... and he was the best choice for Michigan after Harbaugh.

Wow. I was actually thinking Addazio, but Marrone makes sense too. Amazing how much respect he has throughout the football landscape. And we had him!! Looking back I wish we did more to cater to him. Who knows he probably still would have left, but we quite possibly could have had 1 of the very few coaches that were capable of bringing us back to where most think we belong (consistent top 25), that was actually willing to come here. I would love to see how we would look as a program right now. I think we would be sitting pretty.

 

[JackBauer44]

Wow. I was actually thinking Addazio, but Marrone makes sense too. Amazing how much respect he has throughout the football landscape. And we had him!! Looking back I wish we did more to cater to him. Who knows he probably still would have left, but we quite possibly could have had 1 of the very few coaches that were capable of bringing us back to where most think we belong (consistent top 25). I would love to see how we would look as a program right now. I think we would be sitting pretty.

I think you are correct on 100% of this post.

 

[rrlbees]

Bees - Different argument. Different series of issues. Despite all of what you note he won six games, a conf crown and went bowling. We'd take that next year in a heartbeat. And hardly comparable to Greg.

Time for P to go has nothing to do with Grob. Look at the BE that year. It was horrible and why we won a co championship even though we were blah ourselves. Nobody should be measured by one year or one game, good or bad. But a 3 year trend is a good measuring stick. And we had become very average at best. 16-20. It was time. Not to mention the recruiting cratering.

 

[rrlbees]

You are what your record says you are. All of the hype is based upon what people "think" of Marrone. People who are trying to prove he sucks as a coach are wrong. People who are trying to prove he is a great coach are wrong. He may eventually become one of those...sucky or great, but right now with the body of work, he is an average coach. 25-25 in college and 15-17 in the NFL has average written all over it. Those are the facts. No excuses, no if, and or buts. You are what your record says you are. Now if he takes the Bills to the next level and goes to the playoffs year after year, win some, get to Super Bowls and maybe win one, then the word great can start to be associated with his name.

 

[MadNY3]

P won six games in 2004. He won a conference crown. He went to a bowl game.

He beat Pitt, Rutgers. UConn, and clobbered BC at BC. Hard to compare that to 10 wins in 4 years or 3 wins last year. And now it's his fault that the administration wouldn't spend money???

Oh my goodness you are so wrong.

As far as your Ga Tech measure of coaching is concerned the fact is that blow outs occur in bowl games all the time. See Dabo getting wiped out by WVU just to name one example.

Bowl games are often wild cards due to the long lay offs. That P was measured by that game was an example of the kind of amateurish decision making that Cantor undertook at the time. Using it in this thread is just as inappropriate. Indeed the measure you are now advancing set the program back at least five years.

And the idea that we now have to examine point totals game by game in assessing coaching success and skill is nonsensical hairsplitting - a search for an argument.

Marrone ran the program. Like his decisions on issues like memorabilia or not he ran the show with decisiveness and leadership. He was a major talent and force and the NFL knew it.

He was great at SU.

My point from the original post is that the subject is more than debatable.

P was great at SU. 104 wins or so. Incredible. Also was the pilot in the porgram's decline (only to be taken over by a kamakaze pilot in Robinson.)

And, of course, I never said P should be judged by that one game. My (clear?) point was that the two featured national telecasts that season were games featuring bookended 51-point thrashings and those are the things the average college football fan was exposed to.

But to be clear:

P had a great overall tenure at Syracuse.

And like any tenure, they come to an end. His a bit bizarrely given what happened at halftime of that bowl game and a year ahead of when it likely should have been, but again...the debate is worthy.

 

[GoSU96]

You are what your record says you are. All of the hype is based upon what people "think" of Marrone. People who are trying to prove he sucks as a coach are wrong. People who are trying to prove he is a great coach are wrong. He may eventually become one of those...sucky or great, but right now with the body of work, he is an average coach. 25-25 in college and 15-17 in the NFL has average written all over it. Those are the facts. No excuses, no if, and or buts. You are what your record says you are. Now if he takes the Bills to the next level and goes to the playoffs year after year, win some, get to Super Bowls and maybe win one, then the word great can start to be associated with his name.

BS. Context, starting point count.

 

[rrlbees]

BS. Context, starting point count.

So? Doesn't make him a great coach because he took 2 programs and in 2 years made them average. They both obviously had some talent and that's why in year 2 he had them at average. That's where SU was when he left and where the Bills are now. Average. Now let's see if he can take the next step to very good or great.

 

[anomander]

So? Doesn't make him a great coach because he took 2 programs and in 2 years made them average. They both obviously had some talent and that's why in year 2 he had them at average. That's where SU was when he left and where the Bills are now. Average. Now let's see if he can take the next step to very good or great.

You ever think it was the coach, and his staff that was maximizing the talent? Provo, Lemon, and Sales were all great COLLEGE players, but it's not fair to give them all the credit, but then turn around and say that he didn't leave any talent for Shafer.

 

[SUFan44]

You ever think it was the coach, and his staff that was maximizing the talent? Provo, Lemon, and Sales were all great COLLEGE players, but it's not fair to give them all the credit, but then turn around and say that he didn't leave any talent for Shafer.

I absolutely think Marrone maximized talent productivity. But he didn't upgrade the talent level - and at the skill positions (QB, WR) it decreased. As I said previously, he was two miracle drives from 5-7 his last year. How does that make him great at his job?

 

[GoSU96]

Time for P to go has nothing to do with Grob. Look at the BE that year. It was horrible and why we won a co championship even though we were blah ourselves. Nobody should be measured by one year or one game, good or bad. But a 3 year trend is a good measuring stick. And we had become very average at best. 16-20. It was time. Not to mention the recruiting cratering.

Let's put this recruiting thing to bed.

After P left 27 kids that he recruited into the Program were drafted or got FA contracts. 10 in 2006, 17 after that, when recruiting "cratered". His last class had some kids committed that we know ended up going to the NFL from elsewhere.

Robinson, who you tout as such a great recruiter, 14 players drafted or free agents. We'll give Robinson credit for Pugh and Lemon.

As of the last draft 16 Marrone players were drafted or free agents with more likely to come.

Robinson was the least effective recruiter of the three as well as an all around horrible HC.

 

[GoSU96]

I absolutely think Marrone maximized talent productivity. But he didn't upgrade the talent level - and at the skill positions (QB, WR) it decreased. As I said previously, he was two miracle drives from 5-7 his last year. How does that make him great at his job?

He didn't increase the talent level? Get a clue.

 

[rrlbees]

You ever think it was the coach, and his staff that was maximizing the talent? Provo, Lemon, and Sales were all great COLLEGE players, but it's not fair to give them all the credit, but then turn around and say that he didn't leave any talent for Shafer.

I don't think I said he didn't. He took some young pups, Nassib, Pugh, Lemon and Sales and made them a functioning offense by their senior season. But their replacements were never recruited. But if you look at the full body of work, 25-25 and not leaving behind a stable of horses, that puts him squarely in the average category.

 

[rrlbees]

Let's put this recruiting thing to bed. After P left 27 kids that he recruited into the Program were drafted or got FA contracts. 10 in 2006, 17 after that, when recruiting "cratered". His last class had some kids committed that we know ended up going to the NFL from elsewhere. Robinson, who you tout as such a great recruiter, 14 players drafted or free agents. We'll give Robinson credit for Pugh and Lemon. As of the last draft 16 Marrone players were drafted or free agents with more likely to come. Robinson was the least effective recruiter of the three as well as an all around horrible HC.

I said last 3 classes. You keep counting the 2 prior. Tell me in those last 3 classes who came in that were the stud QB, RB, WR etc.

 

[rrlbees]

Let's put this recruiting thing to bed. After P left 27 kids that he recruited into the Program were drafted or got FA contracts. 10 in 2006, 17 after that, when recruiting "cratered". His last class had some kids committed that we know ended up going to the NFL from elsewhere. Robinson, who you tout as such a great recruiter, 14 players drafted or free agents. We'll give Robinson credit for Pugh and Lemon. As of the last draft 16 Marrone players were drafted or free agents with more likely to come. Robinson was the least effective recruiter of the three as well as an all around horrible HC.

Then that says Marrone wasn't a very good coach then with all that NFL talent and only bring a .500 coach and the cupboard looking pretty bare at the skill positions the last 2 seasons.

 

[anomander]

I absolutely think Marrone maximized talent productivity. But he didn't upgrade the talent level - and at the skill positions (QB, WR) it decreased. As I said previously, he was two miracle drives from 5-7 his last year. How does that make him great at his job?

His first 2 recruiting classes he was working with absolutely nothing. Our facilities were an embarrassment, we were coming out of the darkest period the football program had ever gone through, and there was hardly any fan support. Who could possibly be expected to upgrade talent so quickly? I'll be first to admit his first 2 recruiting classes were terrible. But once we got facilities renovated, and produced a bowl season our recruiting was trending upwards. People give him a hard time about his lack of recruiting prowess, but that still didn't mean he was bad at it. Marrone himself may not have been a charmer, but he had some assistant coaches that could really recruit. Things were looking better. I thought our 2012 was rock solid. I'm not sure why people expected automatic success. Besides the reasons I listed before that had him handcuffed for his first 2 years, he was also getting established in new recruiting territories. Following a solid 2013 class, the 2013 class had a solid foundation before he took off and the decommits started. We were just starting to see some of the results from working the downstate area. We missed on the best that year, but we had all the rest. Also in that class was a potential qb. Nobody knows how it would have turned out, so just as saying Zach Allen would have been the savior, you can't say we didn't upgrade the qb position. As for wide receiver he must have felt comfortable with what we had. In that offense you didn't exactly need big, athletic speed freaks. We need smart, crafty kids with good hands. It's not like Lemon or Sales were NFL talent.

In 4 years we went from 10-37 with no hope to 2 bowl wins in 4 years, and some quality wins. We had things humming at the end of 2012. It seemed everyone was bought in, and the program was set to take off. The best was yet to come.

 

[xc84]

Seems like a lot of teams are looking for a bad coach...

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/12...g-marrone-has-3-day-opt-out-clause-would-draw

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bil...d_by_other_nfl_teams_if_he_opts_out_of_c.html

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/16672/doug-marrones-opt-out-clause-comes-into-focus

 

[rrlbees]

Seems like a lot of teams are looking for a bad coach... http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/12...g-marrone-has-3-day-opt-out-clause-would-draw http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bil...d_by_other_nfl_teams_if_he_opts_out_of_c.html http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/16672/doug-marrones-opt-out-clause-comes-into-focus

Few said bad. Just saying not great, yet

 

[anomander]

I don't think I said he didn't. He took some young pups, Nassib, Pugh, Lemon and Sales and made them a functioning offense by their senior season. But their replacements were never recruited. But if you look at the full body of work, 25-25 and not leaving behind a stable of horses, that puts him squarely in the average category.

I think that's very much open to debate. We will never know if the replacements were recruited because the core of his last class got gutted when he left. Our offense also took on a whole new scheme, which obviously didn't fit with some of the kids on the roster. I think it's more then likely the guy it was handed off to botched it.

 

[GoSU96]

Then that says Marrone wasn't a very good coach then with all that NFL talent and only bring a .500 coach and the cupboard looking pretty bare at the skill positions the last 2 seasons.

Yeah, that's what it means.

The cupboard isn't bare, Mc'fit doesn't know what he is doing. Running back was fine. TE was fine. There was more at WR than what was produced. Marrone and Hackett would have been able to get more out of West, Broyld, Fleming, Lewis, AC, Funderburk than that dope.

You think that the UNIT, not one player, that Marrone took over was better than that?

 

[GoSU96]

Seems like a lot of teams are looking for a bad coach...

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/12...g-marrone-has-3-day-opt-out-clause-would-draw

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bil...d_by_other_nfl_teams_if_he_opts_out_of_c.html

http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/16672/doug-marrones-opt-out-clause-comes-into-focus

What can all these NFL and major college decision makers be thinking?

 

[Statesman1]

serious? they have been great since spygate. They just haven't won the super bowl. My Giants beat them twice in the super bowl and it took two great football plays to do it. Plus, they are in the mix every year

Your Giants? Everybody knows they are MY Giants. Being in the mix in the AFC East is not the accomplishment some think it is. Look at the qb's Brady has competed against in his tenure. Don't get me wrong I like Belicheat but he has had the luxury of Brady and a weak division for almost 15 years.

 

[dasher]

Your Giants? Everybody knows they are MY Giants. Being in the mix in the AFC East is not the accomplishment some think it is. Look at the qb's Brady has competed against in his tenure. Don't get me wrong I like Belicheat but he has had the luxury of Brady and a weak division for almost 15 years.

the pats record outside their division is almost exactly what it is in their division over the last 15 years.

 

[rrlbees]

I said last 3 classes. You keep counting the 2 prior. Tell me in those last 3 classes who came in that were the stud QB, RB, WR etc.

Here, I did the work for you. Tell me these 3 classes scream 8-3 teams.

Quentin Brown
Steve Simms
Paul Chiarra
Dan Bailey
Donte Woodward
Corey Chavers
Tony Fiametta
Tom Ferron
JJ Bedle
Ben Maljovec
Tommy Moss
Joe Fields
Nick Santiago
Mike Sklarowsy
Donte Herrod
Jamal Fluellen
Rob Jackson
Joe Neumann
David Bouchard
Jamar Atkinson
Stacy Brown
Curtis Brinkley
Diego Oguendo
Matt Hale
Marvin McCall
Carroll Madison
Jamel McClain
Steve Franklin
Marcus Clayton
Reggie McCoy
Lennie Carter
Eric Ball
Jeremy Sellers
Landel Bembo
Ricky Krautman
Cornelius Campbell
Beyonne Evans
Kevin Osifchin
Tanard Jackson
Tony Jenkins
Vince Giruzzi
Lee Williams
Kyle Bell
Eugene Newsome
Brendan Carney
Daryl Kennedy
Anthony Smith
Perry Patterson
Shawn Mayne
Tim Washington
Larry McClain
Modibo Sidibe
Terrell Lemon
Eric Buchanen
Brian Cabanaugh
Jerry Mackey
Justen Outten
Tim Lane
AJ Mitchell
Brendon Darlington
Luke Cain
Quin Ojinnaka