My Take | Syracusefan.com

My Take

sutomcat

No recent Cali or Iggy awards; Mr Irrelevant
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
24,864
Like
106,299
I should start this post by admitting this: I only watched the first half of the game. It was a long tough day at work. I was already tired and having to watch us play like that, with no sign anything was going to improve, was brutal. Especially after having to watch the same horrific car crash type stuff the last 3 games.

I had never turned off a Syracuse game until the GRob era. I know I did a halftime turn off for at least one road game back then. Don’t remember who the opponent was. Thankfully that awful memory has disappeared in the mists of time. Also left a home game at halftime during the GRob era. Again, I don’t remember the details (and please don’t try and figure out what game it was, I think we have all had enough discussion of Syracuse getting destroyed on the football field for now).

Props to Virginia Tech. Pry said he wanted them to get off to a fast start and that is expertly what they did. They played like winning this game was a life or death situation. They wanted it more than we did. They played hard and smart. I don’t think they have great talent but they have some good athletes and they executed really well and had great game plans on offense and defense. Great job by their players and coaches.

We looked flat and frankly, not ready to play. I don’t understand it but this has been a hallmark of Dino’s teams in big games throughout his tenure here.

I saw no changes made on offense to address the horrific failures of that unit the last month or so. The play calling was the same stuff we have been trying to run (and failing) all season long. Didn’t see any new plays. No new personnel.

VT does not have a good DL but they man handled the SU OL all game long. Our tackles struggled to touch their DEs coming around the edge. The interior line wasn’t much better. I think they pass blocked a bit better but their run blocking was really ineffective. Many times we left VT DL alone, didn’t even try to block them and all they had to do was cross the line of scrimmage and hit the guy with the ball. I know VT does some stunting and maybe they put some nice stuff in but at this point in the season, we should be capable of engaging DL for at least a couple of seconds.

GS again was not a factor running the ball.. VT collapsed the pocket and kept contain time after time. When we were able to get a completion, after always VT knew what was coming and immediately leveled our receiver. Almost nothing was tried to counter the hard pursuing VT defense. You gotta throw some screens, some reverses, some passes to WRs where they throw it. Some counter runs. Plays where the defense gets penalized for being too aggressive. VT ran all that stuff all the time against us, with great success. We didn’t even try these plays. It makes you wonder about basic coaching concepts and whether our staff understands them.

When Dino was interviewed on the field (I think it was as the half ended), he said they had to get better running the ball. That was his analysis. I was thinking Dino knew this was a big game and decided he was going to really get involved in the game plans on offense and the awful approach was probably on him. After hearing him, I wasa convinced his meddling was/is the root cause for our offensive collapse.

Already mentioned I thought our defense played hard and at times well but VT knew we were going to be aggressive and they used all the plays you want to use to beat down an overly aggressive defense. We over pursued like crazy. Johnson has been burned on fly routes the last few games. He isn’t fast enough to play CB at this level and that is on film and people are going to try and take advantage the rest of the season. Drones is not an accurate passer and he missed a bunch of fly routes early but even someone like him is going to connect sometimes when his WR is wide open alone down field with no one within 5 yards of him.

Bellamy got burned again for a TD early. Talented kid who has been abused badly this year. I hope he learns from it and is better next year. Looks like he is a really good athlete. Glad to hear he is not seriously injured. Delaine came in to replace him and I thought he was very impressive. Tough kid with some speed and moxie. I hope he starts the rest of the season at the other CB spot. Peterson got abused late in the half as well. Believe he came in for Johnson at the other CB spot. Ouch.

Barron got hurt in the first half and did not return. Props to him for playing hurt. He is limited playing with one arm but he plays hard. Thought Farmer looked very good replacing him and I hope we continue to play him and give Justin some time off to get his body right.

The loss of Stonehouse is another kick to the groin. Seems like we keep losing the players we can least afford to lose. He hit a bomb of a punt on that play and the coverage was late getting there, lost lane assignments and screwed things up big time. Punt return coverage has not been good this year. Coach Licky needs to do better here. Stonehouse has had to try and make a TD saving tackle a couple of times now. Props to him for trying to make a big play. And he did save a TD blowing out his knee….

We spyed on Drones with Wax and it worked pretty well. He was not a factor running the ball. Really disappointed with our DEs, who get no pressure on Drones all game long. He had a ton of time on all the long throws that they made. Unacceptable.

Thought we did a terrible job holding the corner when VT ran wide. Our CB was never in position to turn the play inside (miss Garrett so much). Our DEs got absorbed by the VT OTs over and over and over and over and we never were able to make any adjustments. Our OLBs also were never able to bear their blocks and make plays. VT RBs ran 5 yards past the LOS repeatedly before they even saw a SU defender. This has not been a problem for years and VT is not a good running team. Very very disappointing. Especially the lack of adjustments.

This was a big game for Dino Babers and this team. I said that before the game and I still think it. I think it set the tone for the rest of the year and it is going to be really hard to change the momentum and get this team turned around now.

What would I do if I was the AD? Well first of all, I am thankful I am not the AD. It has to be ugly opening JW’’s Inbox right now.

I know a lot of people want Dino fired yesterday. I get it. I was thinking the same things Thursday night. But I don’t think that is the right thing to do. However unlikely it is, I think you have to let the season play out and see if the team can turn things around. Changing coaches is a big deal. It will cost SU somewhere around $5 million to buy Dino out. It will affect our recruiting class. But if we can’t get to 7-5, yes, it has to be done.

I am not advocating a wait and see approach. I want (and expect) JW to be burning up the phone lines, touching base with the coaches he has identified as our best replacements and gauging interest. If they have requirements besides salary (and the good ones will), he needs to be lining up commitments from university and donor sources to get those things in place. Identify the coach that is the best fit and get the deal lined up and ready to go, contingent on SU losing that 6th game this year. Hell, if JW loves a coach and Dino loses a 5th game, do it then.

The first step is getting the money to buy Dino out. People will say the university get it, just get it from them. Well, that isn’t the way things work in the real world. The fact is that the university gave the football program tens of millions in subsidies so it could survive during the COVID period, when revenues went in the toilet. I suspect the powers that be in the university still think the football program owes them for that, and for okaying all the money for the dome renovation, and the IPL and the football operations center, and the additional money for more support staff, and the additional money for a better coaching staff, etc. SU had ponied up some of this money and donors have ponied up the rest. Asking for more money now is tough, and if we want to get a good coach who has a chance to turn the program around, he is going to want assurances that the money for a top notch staff, top notch support staff, top notch facilities and (most importantly) top notch NIL money) will be part of his package.

People don’t want to hear it but Dino has been working with the deck stacked against him. Our facilities are the worst in the conference. They are getting better but they are the worst. Our support staff size and money is near the bottom of the conference. And NIL money is also near the bottom of the conference.

We can’t win without investing more in the program. Not only do we need to buy out Dino but we need to continue to pour more money into the program to have a chance to be consistently competitive in league play. JW has to find a way to raise a ton of money in a short period of time to make all this happen. The timing is bad. A lot has been asked and a lot has been provided but a lot more is still needed.

I hope many of you that are campaigning for Dino to get fired are willing to put your wallet where your mouth is and back a decision to change coaches with a donation to make a transition in coaches successful. Give what you can if you care. This might be our last chance to turn the program around and stay relevant in big time college football.

It is put up or shut up time. I intend to help. Hope others will help as well.
 
And NIL money is also near the bottom of the conference.
Kcsu said we’re above average in NIL but below average in using it. Not sure what that means. Either way conflicting reports on how much NIL we truly have at our disposal.
 
Thanks Tom. One note is that Stonehouse came back and punted after he was carted off the field. I was shocked to see him come back.
 
I should start this post by admitting this: I only watched the first half of the game. It was a long tough day at work. I was already tired and having to watch us play like that, with no sign anything was going to improve, was brutal. Especially after having to watch the same horrific car crash type stuff the last 3 games.

I had never turned off a Syracuse game until the GRob era. I know I did a halftime turn off for at least one road game back then. Don’t remember who the opponent was. Thankfully that awful memory has disappeared in the mists of time. Also left a home game at halftime during the GRob era. Again, I don’t remember the details (and please don’t try and figure out what game it was, I think we have all had enough discussion of Syracuse getting destroyed on the football field for now).

Props to Virginia Tech. Pry said he wanted them to get off to a fast start and that is expertly what they did. They played like winning this game was a life or death situation. They wanted it more than we did. They played hard and smart. I don’t think they have great talent but they have some good athletes and they executed really well and had great game plans on offense and defense. Great job by their players and coaches.

We looked flat and frankly, not ready to play. I don’t understand it but this has been a hallmark of Dino’s teams in big games throughout his tenure here.

I saw no changes made on offense to address the horrific failures of that unit the last month or so. The play calling was the same stuff we have been trying to run (and failing) all season long. Didn’t see any new plays. No new personnel.

VT does not have a good DL but they man handled the SU OL all game long. Our tackles struggled to touch their DEs coming around the edge. The interior line wasn’t much better. I think they pass blocked a bit better but their run blocking was really ineffective. Many times we left VT DL alone, didn’t even try to block them and all they had to do was cross the line of scrimmage and hit the guy with the ball. I know VT does some stunting and maybe they put some nice stuff in but at this point in the season, we should be capable of engaging DL for at least a couple of seconds.

GS again was not a factor running the ball.. VT collapsed the pocket and kept contain time after time. When we were able to get a completion, after always VT knew what was coming and immediately leveled our receiver. Almost nothing was tried to counter the hard pursuing VT defense. You gotta throw some screens, some reverses, some passes to WRs where they throw it. Some counter runs. Plays where the defense gets penalized for being too aggressive. VT ran all that stuff all the time against us, with great success. We didn’t even try these plays. It makes you wonder about basic coaching concepts and whether our staff understands them.

When Dino was interviewed on the field (I think it was as the half ended), he said they had to get better running the ball. That was his analysis. I was thinking Dino knew this was a big game and decided he was going to really get involved in the game plans on offense and the awful approach was probably on him. After hearing him, I wasa convinced his meddling was/is the root cause for our offensive collapse.

Already mentioned I thought our defense played hard and at times well but VT knew we were going to be aggressive and they used all the plays you want to use to beat down an overly aggressive defense. We over pursued like crazy. Johnson has been burned on fly routes the last few games. He isn’t fast enough to play CB at this level and that is on film and people are going to try and take advantage the rest of the season. Drones is not an accurate passer and he missed a bunch of fly routes early but even someone like him is going to connect sometimes when his WR is wide open alone down field with no one within 5 yards of him.

Bellamy got burned again for a TD early. Talented kid who has been abused badly this year. I hope he learns from it and is better next year. Looks like he is a really good athlete. Glad to hear he is not seriously injured. Delaine came in to replace him and I thought he was very impressive. Tough kid with some speed and moxie. I hope he starts the rest of the season at the other CB spot. Peterson got abused late in the half as well. Believe he came in for Johnson at the other CB spot. Ouch.

Barron got hurt in the first half and did not return. Props to him for playing hurt. He is limited playing with one arm but he plays hard. Thought Farmer looked very good replacing him and I hope we continue to play him and give Justin some time off to get his body right.

The loss of Stonehouse is another kick to the groin. Seems like we keep losing the players we can least afford to lose. He hit a bomb of a punt on that play and the coverage was late getting there, lost lane assignments and screwed things up big time. Punt return coverage has not been good this year. Coach Licky needs to do better here. Stonehouse has had to try and make a TD saving tackle a couple of times now. Props to him for trying to make a big play. And he did save a TD blowing out his knee….

We spyed on Drones with Wax and it worked pretty well. He was not a factor running the ball. Really disappointed with our DEs, who get no pressure on Drones all game long. He had a ton of time on all the long throws that they made. Unacceptable.

Thought we did a terrible job holding the corner when VT ran wide. Our CB was never in position to turn the play inside (miss Garrett so much). Our DEs got absorbed by the VT OTs over and over and over and over and we never were able to make any adjustments. Our OLBs also were never able to bear their blocks and make plays. VT RBs ran 5 yards past the LOS repeatedly before they even saw a SU defender. This has not been a problem for years and VT is not a good running team. Very very disappointing. Especially the lack of adjustments.

This was a big game for Dino Babers and this team. I said that before the game and I still think it. I think it set the tone for the rest of the year and it is going to be really hard to change the momentum and get this team turned around now.

What would I do if I was the AD? Well first of all, I am thankful I am not the AD. It has to be ugly opening JW’’s Inbox right now.

I know a lot of people want Dino fired yesterday. I get it. I was thinking the same things Thursday night. But I don’t think that is the right thing to do. However unlikely it is, I think you have to let the season play out and see if the team can turn things around. Changing coaches is a big deal. It will cost SU somewhere around $5 million to buy Dino out. It will affect our recruiting class. But if we can’t get to 7-5, yes, it has to be done.

I am not advocating a wait and see approach. I want (and expect) JW to be burning up the phone lines, touching base with the coaches he has identified as our best replacements and gauging interest. If they have requirements besides salary (and the good ones will), he needs to be lining up commitments from university and donor sources to get those things in place. Identify the coach that is the best fit and get the deal lined up and ready to go, contingent on SU losing that 6th game this year. Hell, if JW loves a coach and Dino loses a 5th game, do it then.

The first step is getting the money to buy Dino out. People will say the university get it, just get it from them. Well, that isn’t the way things work in the real world. The fact is that the university gave the football program tens of millions in subsidies so it could survive during the COVID period, when revenues went in the toilet. I suspect the powers that be in the university still think the football program owes them for that, and for okaying all the money for the dome renovation, and the IPL and the football operations center, and the additional money for more support staff, and the additional money for a better coaching staff, etc. SU had ponied up some of this money and donors have ponied up the rest. Asking for more money now is tough, and if we want to get a good coach who has a chance to turn the program around, he is going to want assurances that the money for a top notch staff, top notch support staff, top notch facilities and (most importantly) top notch NIL money) will be part of his package.

People don’t want to hear it but Dino has been working with the deck stacked against him. Our facilities are the worst in the conference. They are getting better but they are the worst. Our support staff size and money is near the bottom of the conference. And NIL money is also near the bottom of the conference.

We can’t win without investing more in the program. Not only do we need to buy out Dino but we need to continue to pour more money into the program to have a chance to be consistently competitive in league play. JW has to find a way to raise a ton of money in a short period of time to make all this happen. The timing is bad. A lot has been asked and a lot has been provided but a lot more is still needed.

I hope many of you that are campaigning for Dino to get fired are willing to put your wallet where your mouth is and back a decision to change coaches with a donation to make a transition in coaches successful. Give what you can if you care. This might be our last chance to turn the program around and stay relevant in big time college football.

It is put up or shut up time. I intend to help. Hope others will help as well.
Ir's hard not to come to the conclusion that you're saying that Dino is not the problem and any other coach will probably fail as well.
 
Thanks Tom. One note is that Stonehouse came back and punted after he was carted off the field. I was shocked to see him come back.
The announcers said he did but I don’t believe them. I heard them say it but couldn’t see him number.

Saw the punter the next time they punted and it was a guy wearing a number in the 90s. Believe it was Hawkins. He is listed on the roster as wearing 95 but I believe he wore 97 on Thursday night.

It would be great if this was correct though. I would love to be wrong on this.
 
I hope many of you that are campaigning for Dino to get fired are willing to put your wallet where your mouth is and back a decision to change coaches with a donation to make a transition in coaches successful. Give what you can if you care. This might be our last chance to turn the program around and stay relevant in big time college football.
This is so on point. I've heard and read a lot of comments that Dino needs to go, and that "the University" needs to do more for football. I've also heard, and read, a lot of comments that people are dropping season tickets and pulling monetary support from the program. Those two things are at cross purposes.

It's easy to make demands with other people's money. If we want change, we need to pay. Now.
 
Good post, as always.

The only way to get more investment in the program now is to find a new head coach who can articulate a tangible plan for success. And SU needs to add stronger staff to their athletic fundraising department.

A few months back I finally received outreach from athletics development. Being blunt, the person I met with was not particularly impressive at selling a vision. I also haven’t heard from him since.

If that’s their standard MO then I can see why they’re hurting for money.
 
The announcers said he did but I don’t believe them. I heard them say it but couldn’t see him number.

Saw the punter the next time they punted and it was a guy wearing a number in the 90s. Believe it was Hawkins. He is listed on the roster as wearing 95 but I believe he wore 97 on Thursday night.

It would be great if this was correct though. I would love to be wrong on this.

Denaburg punted once. Hawkins wasn't even on the travel roster.

Stonehouse had punts of 49, 56, 57 (after the safety), 56, and 48 yards after his injury.
 
I should start this post by admitting this: I only watched the first half of the game. It was a long tough day at work. I was already tired and having to watch us play like that, with no sign anything was going to improve, was brutal. Especially after having to watch the same horrific car crash type stuff the last 3 games.

I had never turned off a Syracuse game until the GRob era. I know I did a halftime turn off for at least one road game back then. Don’t remember who the opponent was. Thankfully that awful memory has disappeared in the mists of time. Also left a home game at halftime during the GRob era. Again, I don’t remember the details (and please don’t try and figure out what game it was, I think we have all had enough discussion of Syracuse getting destroyed on the football field for now).

Props to Virginia Tech. Pry said he wanted them to get off to a fast start and that is expertly what they did. They played like winning this game was a life or death situation. They wanted it more than we did. They played hard and smart. I don’t think they have great talent but they have some good athletes and they executed really well and had great game plans on offense and defense. Great job by their players and coaches.

We looked flat and frankly, not ready to play. I don’t understand it but this has been a hallmark of Dino’s teams in big games throughout his tenure here.

I saw no changes made on offense to address the horrific failures of that unit the last month or so. The play calling was the same stuff we have been trying to run (and failing) all season long. Didn’t see any new plays. No new personnel.

VT does not have a good DL but they man handled the SU OL all game long. Our tackles struggled to touch their DEs coming around the edge. The interior line wasn’t much better. I think they pass blocked a bit better but their run blocking was really ineffective. Many times we left VT DL alone, didn’t even try to block them and all they had to do was cross the line of scrimmage and hit the guy with the ball. I know VT does some stunting and maybe they put some nice stuff in but at this point in the season, we should be capable of engaging DL for at least a couple of seconds.

GS again was not a factor running the ball.. VT collapsed the pocket and kept contain time after time. When we were able to get a completion, after always VT knew what was coming and immediately leveled our receiver. Almost nothing was tried to counter the hard pursuing VT defense. You gotta throw some screens, some reverses, some passes to WRs where they throw it. Some counter runs. Plays where the defense gets penalized for being too aggressive. VT ran all that stuff all the time against us, with great success. We didn’t even try these plays. It makes you wonder about basic coaching concepts and whether our staff understands them.

When Dino was interviewed on the field (I think it was as the half ended), he said they had to get better running the ball. That was his analysis. I was thinking Dino knew this was a big game and decided he was going to really get involved in the game plans on offense and the awful approach was probably on him. After hearing him, I wasa convinced his meddling was/is the root cause for our offensive collapse.

Already mentioned I thought our defense played hard and at times well but VT knew we were going to be aggressive and they used all the plays you want to use to beat down an overly aggressive defense. We over pursued like crazy. Johnson has been burned on fly routes the last few games. He isn’t fast enough to play CB at this level and that is on film and people are going to try and take advantage the rest of the season. Drones is not an accurate passer and he missed a bunch of fly routes early but even someone like him is going to connect sometimes when his WR is wide open alone down field with no one within 5 yards of him.

Bellamy got burned again for a TD early. Talented kid who has been abused badly this year. I hope he learns from it and is better next year. Looks like he is a really good athlete. Glad to hear he is not seriously injured. Delaine came in to replace him and I thought he was very impressive. Tough kid with some speed and moxie. I hope he starts the rest of the season at the other CB spot. Peterson got abused late in the half as well. Believe he came in for Johnson at the other CB spot. Ouch.

Barron got hurt in the first half and did not return. Props to him for playing hurt. He is limited playing with one arm but he plays hard. Thought Farmer looked very good replacing him and I hope we continue to play him and give Justin some time off to get his body right.

The loss of Stonehouse is another kick to the groin. Seems like we keep losing the players we can least afford to lose. He hit a bomb of a punt on that play and the coverage was late getting there, lost lane assignments and screwed things up big time. Punt return coverage has not been good this year. Coach Licky needs to do better here. Stonehouse has had to try and make a TD saving tackle a couple of times now. Props to him for trying to make a big play. And he did save a TD blowing out his knee….

We spyed on Drones with Wax and it worked pretty well. He was not a factor running the ball. Really disappointed with our DEs, who get no pressure on Drones all game long. He had a ton of time on all the long throws that they made. Unacceptable.

Thought we did a terrible job holding the corner when VT ran wide. Our CB was never in position to turn the play inside (miss Garrett so much). Our DEs got absorbed by the VT OTs over and over and over and over and we never were able to make any adjustments. Our OLBs also were never able to bear their blocks and make plays. VT RBs ran 5 yards past the LOS repeatedly before they even saw a SU defender. This has not been a problem for years and VT is not a good running team. Very very disappointing. Especially the lack of adjustments.

This was a big game for Dino Babers and this team. I said that before the game and I still think it. I think it set the tone for the rest of the year and it is going to be really hard to change the momentum and get this team turned around now.

What would I do if I was the AD? Well first of all, I am thankful I am not the AD. It has to be ugly opening JW’’s Inbox right now.

I know a lot of people want Dino fired yesterday. I get it. I was thinking the same things Thursday night. But I don’t think that is the right thing to do. However unlikely it is, I think you have to let the season play out and see if the team can turn things around. Changing coaches is a big deal. It will cost SU somewhere around $5 million to buy Dino out. It will affect our recruiting class. But if we can’t get to 7-5, yes, it has to be done.

I am not advocating a wait and see approach. I want (and expect) JW to be burning up the phone lines, touching base with the coaches he has identified as our best replacements and gauging interest. If they have requirements besides salary (and the good ones will), he needs to be lining up commitments from university and donor sources to get those things in place. Identify the coach that is the best fit and get the deal lined up and ready to go, contingent on SU losing that 6th game this year. Hell, if JW loves a coach and Dino loses a 5th game, do it then.

The first step is getting the money to buy Dino out. People will say the university get it, just get it from them. Well, that isn’t the way things work in the real world. The fact is that the university gave the football program tens of millions in subsidies so it could survive during the COVID period, when revenues went in the toilet. I suspect the powers that be in the university still think the football program owes them for that, and for okaying all the money for the dome renovation, and the IPL and the football operations center, and the additional money for more support staff, and the additional money for a better coaching staff, etc. SU had ponied up some of this money and donors have ponied up the rest. Asking for more money now is tough, and if we want to get a good coach who has a chance to turn the program around, he is going to want assurances that the money for a top notch staff, top notch support staff, top notch facilities and (most importantly) top notch NIL money) will be part of his package.

People don’t want to hear it but Dino has been working with the deck stacked against him. Our facilities are the worst in the conference. They are getting better but they are the worst. Our support staff size and money is near the bottom of the conference. And NIL money is also near the bottom of the conference.

We can’t win without investing more in the program. Not only do we need to buy out Dino but we need to continue to pour more money into the program to have a chance to be consistently competitive in league play. JW has to find a way to raise a ton of money in a short period of time to make all this happen. The timing is bad. A lot has been asked and a lot has been provided but a lot more is still needed.

I hope many of you that are campaigning for Dino to get fired are willing to put your wallet where your mouth is and back a decision to change coaches with a donation to make a transition in coaches successful. Give what you can if you care. This might be our last chance to turn the program around and stay relevant in big time college football.

It is put up or shut up time. I intend to help. Hope others will help as well.

If SU doesn’t bounce Dino by the end of the season they might as well close up shop. Money, facilities, NIL, Covid or any other excuses doesn’t justify Dino’s horrible decision making, game planning or team discipline.

SU needs to decide if they want to play big boy football soon before there isn’t a decision left for them to make.
 
Last edited:
Also re: investment: SU needs to be much clearer about what their expectations are for football.

Right now we have a program with a 6–7 win ceiling with our current level of investment and Dino as HC. If SU is going to ask for substantially more funding from boosters, then what are they expecting the ceiling to be?

8 wins? 10 wins and competing for ACC titles?

Pumping tens of millions more into the program without a substantially higher expectation doesn’t seem worthwhile to me.
 
If SU doesn’t bounce Dino by the end of the season they might as well close up shop. Money, facilities, NIL, Covid or any other excuses don’t justify Dino’s horrible decision making, game planning or team discipline.

SU needs to decide if they want to play big boy football soon before there isn’t a decision left for them to make.
If Syracuse doesn't end up playing "big boy" football, which they have since Archbold funded the 1st stadium in 1907, they might as well stop playing football entirely because there will be no support for it at a lower level.
 
Last edited:
I should start this post by admitting this: I only watched the first half of the game. It was a long tough day at work. I was already tired and having to watch us play like that, with no sign anything was going to improve, was brutal. Especially after having to watch the same horrific car crash type stuff the last 3 games.

I had never turned off a Syracuse game until the GRob era. I know I did a halftime turn off for at least one road game back then. Don’t remember who the opponent was. Thankfully that awful memory has disappeared in the mists of time. Also left a home game at halftime during the GRob era. Again, I don’t remember the details (and please don’t try and figure out what game it was, I think we have all had enough discussion of Syracuse getting destroyed on the football field for now).

Props to Virginia Tech. Pry said he wanted them to get off to a fast start and that is expertly what they did. They played like winning this game was a life or death situation. They wanted it more than we did. They played hard and smart. I don’t think they have great talent but they have some good athletes and they executed really well and had great game plans on offense and defense. Great job by their players and coaches.

We looked flat and frankly, not ready to play. I don’t understand it but this has been a hallmark of Dino’s teams in big games throughout his tenure here.

I saw no changes made on offense to address the horrific failures of that unit the last month or so. The play calling was the same stuff we have been trying to run (and failing) all season long. Didn’t see any new plays. No new personnel.

VT does not have a good DL but they man handled the SU OL all game long. Our tackles struggled to touch their DEs coming around the edge. The interior line wasn’t much better. I think they pass blocked a bit better but their run blocking was really ineffective. Many times we left VT DL alone, didn’t even try to block them and all they had to do was cross the line of scrimmage and hit the guy with the ball. I know VT does some stunting and maybe they put some nice stuff in but at this point in the season, we should be capable of engaging DL for at least a couple of seconds.

GS again was not a factor running the ball.. VT collapsed the pocket and kept contain time after time. When we were able to get a completion, after always VT knew what was coming and immediately leveled our receiver. Almost nothing was tried to counter the hard pursuing VT defense. You gotta throw some screens, some reverses, some passes to WRs where they throw it. Some counter runs. Plays where the defense gets penalized for being too aggressive. VT ran all that stuff all the time against us, with great success. We didn’t even try these plays. It makes you wonder about basic coaching concepts and whether our staff understands them.

When Dino was interviewed on the field (I think it was as the half ended), he said they had to get better running the ball. That was his analysis. I was thinking Dino knew this was a big game and decided he was going to really get involved in the game plans on offense and the awful approach was probably on him. After hearing him, I wasa convinced his meddling was/is the root cause for our offensive collapse.

Already mentioned I thought our defense played hard and at times well but VT knew we were going to be aggressive and they used all the plays you want to use to beat down an overly aggressive defense. We over pursued like crazy. Johnson has been burned on fly routes the last few games. He isn’t fast enough to play CB at this level and that is on film and people are going to try and take advantage the rest of the season. Drones is not an accurate passer and he missed a bunch of fly routes early but even someone like him is going to connect sometimes when his WR is wide open alone down field with no one within 5 yards of him.

Bellamy got burned again for a TD early. Talented kid who has been abused badly this year. I hope he learns from it and is better next year. Looks like he is a really good athlete. Glad to hear he is not seriously injured. Delaine came in to replace him and I thought he was very impressive. Tough kid with some speed and moxie. I hope he starts the rest of the season at the other CB spot. Peterson got abused late in the half as well. Believe he came in for Johnson at the other CB spot. Ouch.

Barron got hurt in the first half and did not return. Props to him for playing hurt. He is limited playing with one arm but he plays hard. Thought Farmer looked very good replacing him and I hope we continue to play him and give Justin some time off to get his body right.

The loss of Stonehouse is another kick to the groin. Seems like we keep losing the players we can least afford to lose. He hit a bomb of a punt on that play and the coverage was late getting there, lost lane assignments and screwed things up big time. Punt return coverage has not been good this year. Coach Licky needs to do better here. Stonehouse has had to try and make a TD saving tackle a couple of times now. Props to him for trying to make a big play. And he did save a TD blowing out his knee….

We spyed on Drones with Wax and it worked pretty well. He was not a factor running the ball. Really disappointed with our DEs, who get no pressure on Drones all game long. He had a ton of time on all the long throws that they made. Unacceptable.

Thought we did a terrible job holding the corner when VT ran wide. Our CB was never in position to turn the play inside (miss Garrett so much). Our DEs got absorbed by the VT OTs over and over and over and over and we never were able to make any adjustments. Our OLBs also were never able to bear their blocks and make plays. VT RBs ran 5 yards past the LOS repeatedly before they even saw a SU defender. This has not been a problem for years and VT is not a good running team. Very very disappointing. Especially the lack of adjustments.

This was a big game for Dino Babers and this team. I said that before the game and I still think it. I think it set the tone for the rest of the year and it is going to be really hard to change the momentum and get this team turned around now.

What would I do if I was the AD? Well first of all, I am thankful I am not the AD. It has to be ugly opening JW’’s Inbox right now.

I know a lot of people want Dino fired yesterday. I get it. I was thinking the same things Thursday night. But I don’t think that is the right thing to do. However unlikely it is, I think you have to let the season play out and see if the team can turn things around. Changing coaches is a big deal. It will cost SU somewhere around $5 million to buy Dino out. It will affect our recruiting class. But if we can’t get to 7-5, yes, it has to be done.

I am not advocating a wait and see approach. I want (and expect) JW to be burning up the phone lines, touching base with the coaches he has identified as our best replacements and gauging interest. If they have requirements besides salary (and the good ones will), he needs to be lining up commitments from university and donor sources to get those things in place. Identify the coach that is the best fit and get the deal lined up and ready to go, contingent on SU losing that 6th game this year. Hell, if JW loves a coach and Dino loses a 5th game, do it then.

The first step is getting the money to buy Dino out. People will say the university get it, just get it from them. Well, that isn’t the way things work in the real world. The fact is that the university gave the football program tens of millions in subsidies so it could survive during the COVID period, when revenues went in the toilet. I suspect the powers that be in the university still think the football program owes them for that, and for okaying all the money for the dome renovation, and the IPL and the football operations center, and the additional money for more support staff, and the additional money for a better coaching staff, etc. SU had ponied up some of this money and donors have ponied up the rest. Asking for more money now is tough, and if we want to get a good coach who has a chance to turn the program around, he is going to want assurances that the money for a top notch staff, top notch support staff, top notch facilities and (most importantly) top notch NIL money) will be part of his package.

People don’t want to hear it but Dino has been working with the deck stacked against him. Our facilities are the worst in the conference. They are getting better but they are the worst. Our support staff size and money is near the bottom of the conference. And NIL money is also near the bottom of the conference.

We can’t win without investing more in the program. Not only do we need to buy out Dino but we need to continue to pour more money into the program to have a chance to be consistently competitive in league play. JW has to find a way to raise a ton of money in a short period of time to make all this happen. The timing is bad. A lot has been asked and a lot has been provided but a lot more is still needed.

I hope many of you that are campaigning for Dino to get fired are willing to put your wallet where your mouth is and back a decision to change coaches with a donation to make a transition in coaches successful. Give what you can if you care. This might be our last chance to turn the program around and stay relevant in big time college football.

It is put up or shut up time. I intend to help. Hope others will help as well.

One of your best, applause here.
 
Good post, as always.

The only way to get more investment in the program now is to find a new head coach who can articulate a tangible plan for success. And SU needs to add stronger staff to their athletic fundraising department.

A few months back I finally received outreach from athletics development. Being blunt, the person I met with was not particularly impressive at selling a vision. I also haven’t heard from him since.

If that’s their standard MO then I can see why they’re hurting for money.

They're really bulking up on staff, but as you know people come and go a lot in that profession. For every dud they have some really solid people.
 
This is so on point. I've heard and read a lot of comments that Dino needs to go, and that "the University" needs to do more for football. I've also heard, and read, a lot of comments that people are dropping season tickets and pulling monetary support from the program. Those two things are at cross purposes.

It's easy to make demands with other people's money. If we want change, we need to pay. Now.
I categorically disagree. In business, you need to spend money to make money. This is a business for the school. And the school made $40ish MILLION in 2022 alone from its affiliation with the ACC. And I’m pretty sure right now the overall athletics program is in a net profit position.

If you want more fan involvement and fan dollars, put a better product on the field.
 
The announcers said he did but I don’t believe them. I heard them say it but couldn’t see him number.

Saw the punter the next time they punted and it was a guy wearing a number in the 90s. Believe it was Hawkins. He is listed on the roster as wearing 95 but I believe he wore 97 on Thursday night.

It would be great if this was correct though. I would love to be wrong on this.
Hawkins was not on the travel roster. I didn’t see the punt, but Emily Leiker tweeted that it was Denaburg who punted but he had to change his jersey because McDonald is on the punt team and also wears 15.
 
This is so on point. I've heard and read a lot of comments that Dino needs to go, and that "the University" needs to do more for football. I've also heard, and read, a lot of comments that people are dropping season tickets and pulling monetary support from the program. Those two things are at cross purposes.

It's easy to make demands with other people's money. If we want change, we need to pay. Now.

SU has to show a commitment before people will invest. Keeping Dino is the opposite of that. You have it backwards. SU can't say give us your money and then roll out that product.
 
SU has to show a commitment before people will invest. Keeping Dino is the opposite of that. You have it backwards. SU can't say give us your money and then roll out that product.

SU is putting a quarter of a billion dollars plus into long term facilities.

The football coach lost whatever pitches he was able to throw. That happens and move on.
 
Good post, as always.

The only way to get more investment in the program now is to find a new head coach who can articulate a tangible plan for success. And SU needs to add stronger staff to their athletic fundraising department.

A few months back I finally received outreach from athletics development. Being blunt, the person I met with was not particularly impressive at selling a vision. I also haven’t heard from him since.

If that’s their standard MO then I can see why they’re hurting for money.
 
The announcers said he did but I don’t believe them. I heard them say it but couldn’t see him number.

Saw the punter the next time they punted and it was a guy wearing a number in the 90s. Believe it was Hawkins. He is listed on the roster as wearing 95 but I believe he wore 97 on Thursday night.

It would be great if this was correct though. I would love to be wrong on this.
did not watch game (I'm glad) but I listened to radio broadcast and Matt said it was Stonehouse who came back to punt after Denaburg replaced him for one punt. Matt and Adam Terry said they were shocked to see him come back and Matt said Stone seemed to be favoring and limping on his non-kicking leg. Matt also looked at the travel roster and said Stone and Denaburg were only two kickers to make trip. If it was Stone, it was a herioc effort, he had a good night punting and God knows he had plenty of opportunities.
 
They're really bulking up on staff, but as you know people come and go a lot in that profession. For every dud they have some really solid people.
Good to hear.

Having a better articulation of what SU really wants their football program to be would be a big help to them.

A new HC and a clear vision from the AD would go a long way.

*edit* To be honest, right now I’d say SU is content to be a 7 win program. They don’t need a ton more financial help to do that. If they have bigger aspirations they should say so.
 
IMG_8743.jpeg

I was mad prescient.
 
I should start this post by admitting this: I only watched the first half of the game. It was a long tough day at work. I was already tired and having to watch us play like that, with no sign anything was going to improve, was brutal. Especially after having to watch the same horrific car crash type stuff the last 3 games.

I had never turned off a Syracuse game until the GRob era. I know I did a halftime turn off for at least one road game back then. Don’t remember who the opponent was. Thankfully that awful memory has disappeared in the mists of time. Also left a home game at halftime during the GRob era. Again, I don’t remember the details (and please don’t try and figure out what game it was, I think we have all had enough discussion of Syracuse getting destroyed on the football field for now).

Props to Virginia Tech. Pry said he wanted them to get off to a fast start and that is expertly what they did. They played like winning this game was a life or death situation. They wanted it more than we did. They played hard and smart. I don’t think they have great talent but they have some good athletes and they executed really well and had great game plans on offense and defense. Great job by their players and coaches.

We looked flat and frankly, not ready to play. I don’t understand it but this has been a hallmark of Dino’s teams in big games throughout his tenure here.

I saw no changes made on offense to address the horrific failures of that unit the last month or so. The play calling was the same stuff we have been trying to run (and failing) all season long. Didn’t see any new plays. No new personnel.

VT does not have a good DL but they man handled the SU OL all game long. Our tackles struggled to touch their DEs coming around the edge. The interior line wasn’t much better. I think they pass blocked a bit better but their run blocking was really ineffective. Many times we left VT DL alone, didn’t even try to block them and all they had to do was cross the line of scrimmage and hit the guy with the ball. I know VT does some stunting and maybe they put some nice stuff in but at this point in the season, we should be capable of engaging DL for at least a couple of seconds.

GS again was not a factor running the ball.. VT collapsed the pocket and kept contain time after time. When we were able to get a completion, after always VT knew what was coming and immediately leveled our receiver. Almost nothing was tried to counter the hard pursuing VT defense. You gotta throw some screens, some reverses, some passes to WRs where they throw it. Some counter runs. Plays where the defense gets penalized for being too aggressive. VT ran all that stuff all the time against us, with great success. We didn’t even try these plays. It makes you wonder about basic coaching concepts and whether our staff understands them.

When Dino was interviewed on the field (I think it was as the half ended), he said they had to get better running the ball. That was his analysis. I was thinking Dino knew this was a big game and decided he was going to really get involved in the game plans on offense and the awful approach was probably on him. After hearing him, I wasa convinced his meddling was/is the root cause for our offensive collapse.

Already mentioned I thought our defense played hard and at times well but VT knew we were going to be aggressive and they used all the plays you want to use to beat down an overly aggressive defense. We over pursued like crazy. Johnson has been burned on fly routes the last few games. He isn’t fast enough to play CB at this level and that is on film and people are going to try and take advantage the rest of the season. Drones is not an accurate passer and he missed a bunch of fly routes early but even someone like him is going to connect sometimes when his WR is wide open alone down field with no one within 5 yards of him.

Bellamy got burned again for a TD early. Talented kid who has been abused badly this year. I hope he learns from it and is better next year. Looks like he is a really good athlete. Glad to hear he is not seriously injured. Delaine came in to replace him and I thought he was very impressive. Tough kid with some speed and moxie. I hope he starts the rest of the season at the other CB spot. Peterson got abused late in the half as well. Believe he came in for Johnson at the other CB spot. Ouch.

Barron got hurt in the first half and did not return. Props to him for playing hurt. He is limited playing with one arm but he plays hard. Thought Farmer looked very good replacing him and I hope we continue to play him and give Justin some time off to get his body right.

The loss of Stonehouse is another kick to the groin. Seems like we keep losing the players we can least afford to lose. He hit a bomb of a punt on that play and the coverage was late getting there, lost lane assignments and screwed things up big time. Punt return coverage has not been good this year. Coach Licky needs to do better here. Stonehouse has had to try and make a TD saving tackle a couple of times now. Props to him for trying to make a big play. And he did save a TD blowing out his knee….

We spyed on Drones with Wax and it worked pretty well. He was not a factor running the ball. Really disappointed with our DEs, who get no pressure on Drones all game long. He had a ton of time on all the long throws that they made. Unacceptable.

Thought we did a terrible job holding the corner when VT ran wide. Our CB was never in position to turn the play inside (miss Garrett so much). Our DEs got absorbed by the VT OTs over and over and over and over and we never were able to make any adjustments. Our OLBs also were never able to bear their blocks and make plays. VT RBs ran 5 yards past the LOS repeatedly before they even saw a SU defender. This has not been a problem for years and VT is not a good running team. Very very disappointing. Especially the lack of adjustments.

This was a big game for Dino Babers and this team. I said that before the game and I still think it. I think it set the tone for the rest of the year and it is going to be really hard to change the momentum and get this team turned around now.

What would I do if I was the AD? Well first of all, I am thankful I am not the AD. It has to be ugly opening JW’’s Inbox right now.

I know a lot of people want Dino fired yesterday. I get it. I was thinking the same things Thursday night. But I don’t think that is the right thing to do. However unlikely it is, I think you have to let the season play out and see if the team can turn things around. Changing coaches is a big deal. It will cost SU somewhere around $5 million to buy Dino out. It will affect our recruiting class. But if we can’t get to 7-5, yes, it has to be done.

I am not advocating a wait and see approach. I want (and expect) JW to be burning up the phone lines, touching base with the coaches he has identified as our best replacements and gauging interest. If they have requirements besides salary (and the good ones will), he needs to be lining up commitments from university and donor sources to get those things in place. Identify the coach that is the best fit and get the deal lined up and ready to go, contingent on SU losing that 6th game this year. Hell, if JW loves a coach and Dino loses a 5th game, do it then.

The first step is getting the money to buy Dino out. People will say the university get it, just get it from them. Well, that isn’t the way things work in the real world. The fact is that the university gave the football program tens of millions in subsidies so it could survive during the COVID period, when revenues went in the toilet. I suspect the powers that be in the university still think the football program owes them for that, and for okaying all the money for the dome renovation, and the IPL and the football operations center, and the additional money for more support staff, and the additional money for a better coaching staff, etc. SU had ponied up some of this money and donors have ponied up the rest. Asking for more money now is tough, and if we want to get a good coach who has a chance to turn the program around, he is going to want assurances that the money for a top notch staff, top notch support staff, top notch facilities and (most importantly) top notch NIL money) will be part of his package.

People don’t want to hear it but Dino has been working with the deck stacked against him. Our facilities are the worst in the conference. They are getting better but they are the worst. Our support staff size and money is near the bottom of the conference. And NIL money is also near the bottom of the conference.

We can’t win without investing more in the program. Not only do we need to buy out Dino but we need to continue to pour more money into the program to have a chance to be consistently competitive in league play. JW has to find a way to raise a ton of money in a short period of time to make all this happen. The timing is bad. A lot has been asked and a lot has been provided but a lot more is still needed.

I hope many of you that are campaigning for Dino to get fired are willing to put your wallet where your mouth is and back a decision to change coaches with a donation to make a transition in coaches successful. Give what you can if you care. This might be our last chance to turn the program around and stay relevant in big time college football.

It is put up or shut up time. I intend to help. Hope others will help as well.

Agree with a lot of this. I think this is a very fair and rational take. Kudos.

A few items:
-- Syracuse, as a whole, has to decide if P5 football is something they care about. If so, they have to totally re-work the expectations, priorities and how they approach things. You are right that Dino has the deck stacked against him, but so has every coach for decades. I get the current investments and fundraising is a lot of money and it is fantastic. But, but, but, it's us playing catch up to maybe be middle of the pack. And it is insanely late. INSANELY. Again, it's great, but it's akin to bragging about getting a flat screen tv in 2023.

-- You can't expect people to donate without a vision of real success and a clear path forward. You can't expect people to donate because things are so bad that we are staring at another decade of bad to mediocre football. Here is the reason: You're inability to plan does not constitute an emergency on my part. Or, as otherwise stated for the admin: you're inability to do your job for decades does not constitute me fixing your mistake bc of no other options. Your point about how the program has not been supported is systemic. You can't fail so badly that you then expect people to donate. Why would anyone give money to an admin that hasn't shown it can succeed? Not saying that that thought is right, but it does/will exist.

-- We have not had even a pie in the sky shot at the national title since McNabb. That was 25 years ago. That's the year Waterboy came out! The best selling cell phone was a Nokia 5110! The idea of not making a bowl game would have made everyone on this board apoplectic.

-- We're in a very high risk position. We don't have the money needed to fund a truly competitive football team. The money we are raising and putting to use is, at best, maybe making it so we can more likely be mediocre than bad, but it's still absolutely necessary because of severe gap in even baseline components for a program to have. We are looking at a fractured conference and on the outside looking in if there is an eventual breakup of the current conference.

-- You are right that it's probably rough for JW. But it's his job. he gets paid well to do that job. All due respect, because I also wouldn't want to be in his shoes, but this change isn't just about Dino, it's about the way Syracuse supports football moving forward.
 
I categorically disagree. In business, you need to spend money to make money. This is a business for the school. And the school made $40ish MILLION in 2022 alone from its affiliation with the ACC. And I’m pretty sure right now the overall athletics program is in a net profit position.

If you want more fan involvement and fan dollars, put a better product on the field.
Yeah, I appreciate the call on a message board for fans to rally support, but I strongly agree with your post. Your average fan isn't moving the needle. We've got any 1%ers on here, sure, they matter and can have seismic changes, but the university first and foremost has to sell a vision and make visible progress toward building something people fans want to invest in. It's fragile but right now there's not a lot to sell with Dino.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
166,540
Messages
4,644,363
Members
5,881
Latest member
TizTheLaw

Online statistics

Members online
269
Guests online
996
Total visitors
1,265


Top Bottom