NBA Thread 2022-23 Season

[MikeSU02]

I don't know about that. Obviously it depends on what is going the other way, but, it's KD! you send them back a package anchored by Zion and I don't see why they aren't a contender. KD and Ingram as your top 2? Seems reasonable enough. McCollum is solid.

I think KD and BI overlap too much.

I think they would be good and in the playoffs, but versus the top of the west? I don't see it.

 

[jordville]

 

[MikeSU02]

Well. At least there will be ongoing drama from the Nets for the season.

 

[Knicks411]

I think KD and BI overlap too much.

I think they would be good and in the playoffs, but versus the top of the west? I don't see it.

I get the overlap, but if you're going to have an overlap, if it's "6-10 guys who can score from anywhere" it seems like that's not a bad overlap of skill to have.

That said, I guess the point is moot

 

[shandeezy7]

Fair point. I still want to trade him.

I’d love to move him but I don’t see how it works. His contract is somewhat attractive if he produces like he did in the 20/21 season, but that appears to be an anomaly more than the expected norm.

 

[Knicks411]

The Shams tweet is so funny, because Woj said Kyrie couldn't find any trades. Kinda makes it clear who Woj and Shams are better sourced with

 

[Knicks411]

I’d love to move him but I don’t see how it works. His contract is somewhat attractive if he produces like he did in the 20/21 season, but that appears to be an anomaly more than the expected norm.

Randle was second team all NBA in 21, and he's going to be something like the 45th highest paid player in the league on the new deal (no one fact check me on that, but I believe it's in the ballpark). His deal is super attractive if he's anywhere close to that player. Will he be? Probably not.

I fact checked myself, per ESPN, before any new deals are handed out, Randle will be the 47th highest paid player in the league. Really, it's not that bad. (I am fine trading him btw)

 

[jordville]

The Shams tweet is so funny, because Woj said Kyrie couldn't find any trades. Kinda makes it clear who Woj and Shams are better sourced with

Yeah, I saw both and they were slightly different. I shared Shams this time since it went out first.

 

[MikeSU02]

 

[Melancer46]

Or Kyrie can just turn down his 36 million dollar player option and sign with the Lakers for 6 mil.

It was always unlikely anyways, but just to respond even though this isn't happening anymore, even Kyrie would not turn down the $36 million player option (and a potential $200+ mil extension a year later) to sign with the Lakers for $6 mil and then slightly more for the forseeable future since he'd be forfeiting his bird rights and the Lakers would not have the cap space to give him a max anytime soon.

 

[Melancer46]

I keep forgetting that... Houston is in a good spot. Just need to find a suitor for Wall.

There's no real point in them finding a suitor for Wall at this point. They probably prefer just having the contract go away next year to maximize their cap space anyways. They could potentially position themselves to sign like two max free agents to go with their young core if they want next year. The absolute best you can get for Wall in a trade is an equally bad contract that's likely longer term so it's likely a non-starter.

 

[jncuse]

Well. At least there will be ongoing drama from the Nets for the season.

I think opting in was perhaps Kyrie's best way to get to another team soon. Trying to do a sign and trade was going to be difficult. Now he can be an ass, (essentially be himself) and try to force the Nets to move him, and moves are easier via standard trades compared to SnT's.

Also, if both parties have realized its in their best interest to move on, the Nets probably realize they can extract more value moving him this way.

It was probably mutually beneficial for all parties that Kyrie go the opt in route.

But I still think there will be all kinds of drama before this is over.

 

[jordville]

Wall wants to sign with the Clippers once he clears waivers.

 

[jordville]

More Kyrie...

 

[Melancer46]

Amazing how the clippers and Wall agreed to the TPMLE without communicating with each other!

 

[jncuse]

Amazing how the clippers and Wall agreed to the TPMLE without communicating with each other!

I suspect no rules were broken here (and I say this as someone who would love the Clips to get dinged for tampering due to prior issues) - it's a different situation than your traditional June 30 free agent.

Houston cut him via buyout - he was no longer their property, nor was he a Houston free agent, and he could probably talk to whomever he wanted to immediately.

If Houston had a player who played for them at the end of last year, was now a free agent that is a different situation. In that situation other teams can't tamper with the player until free agency starts.

Houston also has been allowing Wall and his agent to talk to other teams about trying to work out trades.

 

[Knicks411]

I suspect no rules were broken here (and I say this as someone who would love the Clips to get dinged for tampering due to prior issues) - it's a different situation than your traditional June 30 free agent.

Houston cut him via buyout - he was no longer their property, nor was he a Houston free agent, and he could probably talk to whomever he wanted to immediately.

If Houston had a player who played for them at the end of last year, was now a free agent that is a different situation. In that situation other teams can't tamper with the player until free agency starts.

Houston also has been allowing Wall and his agent to talk to other teams about trying to work out trades.

I don't know (good point about looking for trades though, I suppose that gives you some wiggle room).

I am pretty sure technically (technically!) you aren't allowed to negotiate with anyone (not under contratc to you) until the legal tampering period starts. Obviously the reality is quite different and the NBA (almost) never cares. But also technically Wall won't even be a FA until he passes through waivers.

I had to laugh when I saw Wall gave back basically exactly the TPMLE to Houston. Gee, I wonder how that came up with that number??

 

[MSOrange]

I think opting in was perhaps Kyrie's best way to get to another team soon. Trying to do a sign and trade was going to be difficult. Now he can be an ass, (essentially be himself) and try to force the Nets to move him, and moves are easier via standard trades compared to SnT's.

Also, if both parties have realized its in their best interest to move on, the Nets probably realize they can extract more value moving him this way.

It was probably mutually beneficial for all parties that Kyrie go the opt in route.

But I still think there will be all kinds of drama before this is over.

It's Kyrie. There will definitely be drama. Wonder how many games he will actually play?

 

[Day2]

I don't know (good point about looking for trades though, I suppose that gives you some wiggle room).

I am pretty sure technically (technically!) you aren't allowed to negotiate with anyone (not under contratc to you) until the legal tampering period starts. Obviously the reality is quite different and the NBA (almost) never cares. But also technically Wall won't even be a FA until he passes through waivers.

I had to laugh when I saw Wall gave back basically exactly the TPMLE to Houston. Gee, I wonder how that came up with that number??

Wall has been pushing for a trade to the Clippers for two years. He’s even worked out with Clippers players during the offseason. Meanwhile, Lawrence Frank made it clear he wouldn’t be trading for Wall, he would only wait for a buyout. And the TPMLE is all the Clippers have to offer. Wall’s agent could figure that out.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I think KD and BI overlap too much.

I think they would be good and in the playoffs, but versus the top of the west? I don't see it.

I honestly don't think the Pels would make the move. I think they really want to see what the team looks like with Zion, BI, CJ and the 2nd year guys all together. Expecting a big jump from trey Murphy this year as well who actually led all rookies in 3 point % by the end of the year. As well as JV and Nance. Kd's health and Zions health are kind of the same concern at this point as well. Obviously one is 21 and one is 33. Kd is one of the best ever but isn't this his 15th year in the league coming up and KD would not want to be in New Orleans either. The pels have been pretty steadfast in drafting/trading for guys that are either foreign or have southern roots, they really don't want to play the " I don't want to be here" games anymore.

Zion has finally got a personal trainer, chef and has been in New Orleans all summer and they have a solid roster along with him. He finally appears to be in great shape considering the long layoff. BI is the leader of the team, CJ the veteran spokesmen. Zion just needs to prove it on the court and stay healthy and obviously it's a huge question to answer but no denying his game when healthy. It's a big year for New Orleans to really see what they have built and what's under the hood so to speak

I think chasing stars through big trades has kind of backfired for most teams if you look as to what has gone on the past few years.

 

[jncuse]

I don't know (good point about looking for trades though, I suppose that gives you some wiggle room).

I am pretty sure technically (technically!) you aren't allowed to negotiate with anyone (not under contratc to you) until the legal tampering period starts. Obviously the reality is quite different and the NBA (almost) never cares. But also technically Wall won't even be a FA until he passes through waivers.

I had to laugh when I saw Wall gave back basically exactly the TPMLE to Houston. Gee, I wonder how that came up with that number??

I think the distinction between the two situations is fairly easy to make.

The June 30th free agency period and related tampering rules are for free agents whose contracts ended at the end of the 2021/2022 season and are meant to protect teams that had contracts with those players in the prior year.

John Wall already had a contract for the 2022/2023 season. He was just released from it. He doesn't fall into the same group as the other free agents noted in the paragraph above who never had contracts for the 2022/2023 season.

As for him having discussions during the 3 day waiver period, I would think its the same rules that exist when players are bought out during the regular season. And I stand to be corrected, but I am near certain teams will grant permission to their players / agents to contact certain specific teams prior to finalizing a buy-out since it can save them money. Any recent discussions between Wall and the Clippers were likely permitted, and this did save the Rockets money.

 

[jncuse]

A framework for a solution to the NBA's"Buyout" Situation - a one time annual "Retain and Trade" exemption.

The problem is that players like John Wall become impossible to trade for any value due to the trade rules under the CBA. So the best solution for the Rockets (or other teams) in the situation is to buy them out. The NBA has to come up with some solution to be able to move these players more easily so there are less embarrassing holdouts / or simply mutually sending players home for tanking reasons.

Just putting out a framework of something that can be built on / tweaked:
- Each team is allowed to "Retain and Trade" one player in his last contract year, and the portion that is "Retained" does not apply for matching purposes in trades
- Each team is allowed to have acquired one "Retained and Traded" player on their roster.

How does the "Retain and Trade" work. Let's apply it to the Wall situation.
- Let's assume they can work out a trade with the Clippers where the Clippers offer Terrance Mann (1.8m) and a protected first round pick and teams think it is fair value. That value could be way off, but just using it as an example of how the rule is applied.
- The Rockets agree to "Retain" $45million of Wall's contract. His value for the trade is $1.8m.
- Teams can only "retain" one player each year, and a team can only trade for one "retained" player each year.
- The "One Player Only" retention rule does not result in some teams taking advantage of this much more than others.

I view this as good for all parties:
- The NBA avoids the situation of these holdouts/buyouts which are not good for the league.
- The Rockets are able to extract more value out of trading Wall because of this rule. He was impossible to trade for value because of his bloated contract which can't be moved for value under the CBA.
- The Clippers still get their man, but they now have to give up assets to acquire him, rather than getting him for "free" in the embarrassing buyout market.
- Different contenders get the players, rather than the same old.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

A framework for a solution to the NBA's"Buyout" Situation - a one time annual "Retain and Trade" exemption.

The problem is that players like John Wall become impossible to trade for any value due to the trade rules under the CBA. So the best solution for the Rockets (or other teams) in the situation is to buy them out. The NBA has to come up with some solution to be able to move these players more easily so there are less embarrassing holdouts / or simply mutually sending players home for tanking reasons.

Just putting out a framework of something that can be built on / tweaked:
- Each team is allowed to "Retain and Trade" one player in his last contract year, and the portion that is "Retained" does not apply for matching purposes in trades
- Each team is allowed to have acquired one "Retained and Traded" player on their roster.

How does the "Retain and Trade" work. Let's apply it to the Wall situation.
- Let's assume they can work out a trade with the Clippers where the Clippers offer Terrance Mann (1.8m) and a protected first round pick and teams think it is fair value. That value could be way off, but just using it as an example of how the rule is applied.
- The Rockets agree to "Retain" $45million of Wall's contract. His value for the trade is $1.8m.
- Teams can only "retain" one player each year, and a team can only trade for one "retained" player each year.
- The "One Player Only" retention rule does not result in some teams taking advantage of this much more than others.

I view this as good for all parties:
- The NBA avoids the situation of these holdouts/buyouts which are not good for the league.
- The Rockets are able to extract more value out of trading Wall because of this rule. He was impossible to trade for value because of his bloated contract which can't be moved for value under the CBA.
- The Clippers still get their man, but they now have to give up assets to acquire him, rather than getting him for "free" in the embarrassing buyout market.
- Different contenders get the players, rather than the same old.

This is like the opposite of the amnesty thing.

 

[Knicks411]

I think the distinction between the two situations is fairly easy to make.

The June 30th free agency period and related tampering rules are for free agents whose contracts ended at the end of the 2021/2022 season and are meant to protect teams that had contracts with those players in the prior year.

John Wall already had a contract for the 2022/2023 season. He was just released from it. He doesn't fall into the same group as the other free agents noted in the paragraph above who never had contracts for the 2022/2023 season.

As for him having discussions during the 3 day waiver period, I would think its the same rules that exist when players are bought out during the regular season. And I stand to be corrected, but I am near certain teams will grant permission to their players / agents to contact certain specific teams prior to finalizing a buy-out since it can save them money. Any recent discussions between Wall and the Clippers were likely permitted, and this did save the Rockets money.

Report: John Wall joining Clippers after sacrificing $6.5M in Rockets buyout

John Wall – despite displeasure sitting out last season with the Rockets – secured the last ginormous payday of his career by exercising his $47,366,760 player option with Houston for next season.

www.yahoo.com

Certainly this story isnt definitive, but he agrees with you. I can buy it, the argument that the team allows the player to negotiate is pretty compelling to me

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Should be a great hire for the Utah Jazz as their new head coach.

Jazz closing in on hiring Celtics assistant Will Hardy as next coach, per report

Hardy was a longtime assistant to Gregg Popovich

www.cbssports.com