Nike and High School Players

[STEVEHOLT]

Wouldn't we be on that list of "poor schools?"
You're not tired of being a mid-pack ACC team?

maybe we need better connects

 

[STEVEHOLT]

The chances of K not knowing are about the same as those of JoPa not knowing.

And yet thousands believe neither knew

 

[orangefog]

And yet thousands believe neither knew

It is amazing how many people lack logic.

 

[AZOrange]

Only question I have is how does Ayton get $100k and Zion only gets $35K? Zion needs a new handler.

It’s sort of the strangest subtext to the whole saga honestly. There’s apparently no market rate for anything. Even more strange is the players got very little of it. This was pure steering money

 

[RandygoCuse]

The victim is “competition.” The victims are all the teams trying to compete on the same stage without the ‘big ticket talent’ because they can’t or won’t break the rules.

Which is why I think Division 1 needs to be split in two. There should be a premier division for schools where players can make money, practice and transfer rules are loosened up, and academic standards are evaluated. The second division should would still offer athletic scholarships but there would be a focus on student-athletes and amateurism where these programs wouldn't have to compete with the giants.

 

[FloridaFan]

Which is why I think Division 1 needs to be split in two. There should be a premier division for schools where players can make money, practice and transfer rules are loosened up, and academic standards are evaluated. The second division should would still offer athletic scholarships but there would be a focus on student-athletes and amateurism where these programs wouldn't have to compete with the giants.

Or just repeal the one and done so these players go to G-league versus making a mockery of the point of student-athlete sports

 

[RandygoCuse]

Or just repeal the one and done so these players go to G-league versus making a mockery of the point of student-athlete sports

I'm all for getting rid of one and done (and they shouldn't have to make a stop in the G-league). But I also think if players can best leverage their brand before they are in the NBA, they should be allowed to do so.

 

[FloridaFan]

I'm all for getting rid of one and done (and they shouldn't have to make a stop in the G-league). But I also think if players can best leverage their brand before they are in the NBA, they should be allowed to do so.

I said G-league as that’s where most of them will play their first year or two. I’d like to make it where you can go out of HS to the NBA but if you decide to go to school you have to stay 3 years before you can be drafted

 

[dollarbill44]

What did you expect from them, an instantaneous death penalty ruling 15 minutes after the story broke? I know you folks have it in for them, but there is a process they have to follow lest they get sued every time a story like this comes out. Right now, this stuff has been entered into evidence in Federal court. Until the Feds turn it over to the NCAA, they can't act on it, just like the Adidas stuff, which has entered the hearings phase (remember how Arizona and NC State have been sent their official notices?).

Somehow, I feel like the NCAA wil determine this isn't "in their wheelhouse". It's too damaging to the NCAA to come down hard on the big names.

 

[Consigliere]

The chances of K not knowing are about the same as those of JoPa not knowing.

Can't use the PSU tragedy as a benchmark for anything IMHO. Understand your point but it offends the sensibilities to compare anything in the civilized world to that.

 

[Toga]

Would it kill us to have a couple of street agents?

 

[jgeorge322]

Honestly, I don’t care if we get caught, if guilty. I just want the super cheaters to go down hard, because for years we have heard how great UK and KU and Duke and UNC are. Anyone with a half a brain knew they were cheating, but now everyone will know.

Youll care if we get caught and no one else does.

Jb, roy and mike k are all at a table. The adidas investigation gets brought up and the collective response is, “doesnt the fbi have anything better to do?” That happened. Jb isnt like coach k or calipari but come on...

I think cheating in college basketball will be looked back as the biggest, “well, duh” moment history. Its so obvious and widespread and ppl either choose to ignore it (fine with that) or deny it (suckers).

My point is, do you think coach k and cal are better cheaters or that nike will just cheat harder for duke and uk. If the latter, does that make syracuse less reprehensible?

 

[orangefog]

Youll care if we get caught and no one else does.

Jb, roy and mike k are all at a table. The adidas investigation gets brought up and the collective response is, “doesnt the fbi have anything better to do?” That happened. Jb isnt like coach k or calipari but come on...

I think cheating in college basketball will be looked back as the biggest, “well, duh” moment history. Its so obvious and widespread and ppl either choose to ignore it (fine with that) or deny it (suckers).

My point is, do you think coach k and cal are better cheaters or that nike will just cheat harder for duke and uk. If the latter, does that make syracuse less reprehensible?

Yes.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Personally I want it to burn.

 

[Hoo's That]

Or just repeal the one and done so these players go to G-league versus making a mockery of the point of student-athlete sports

It is gone. The NBA and the Players Association have come up with a new plan that will let some HS players be drafted.

 

[Hoo's That]

Somehow, I feel like the NCAA wil determine this isn't "in their wheelhouse". It's too damaging to the NCAA to come down hard on the big names.

How is it damaging to them? Everyone says this but no one can explain how. They came down hard on Southern Cal over Reggie Bush. When did they become nobodies in football?

It isn't money. The NCAA gets $0.00 from any sport's regular season in all the divisions. They get the same payout from CBS for the tournament contract regardless of who is or who isn't in the tournament and the current contract runs to 2025, IIRC.

So what is it?

 

[pfister1]

How is it damaging to them? Everyone says this but no one can explain how. They came down hard on Southern Cal over Reggie Bush. When did they become nobodies in football?

It isn't money. The NCAA gets $0.00 from any sport's regular season in all the divisions. They get the same payout from CBS for the tournament contract regardless of who is or who isn't in the tournament and the current contract runs to 2025, IIRC.

So what is it?

If you punish one or two cheaters, than I agree with you. If they end up having to deal with rampant cheating throughout the sport you run the risk of tarnishing your product. I also suppose you run a greater risk if the cheating gets exposed and you simply ignore it.

 

[Hoo's That]

If you punish one or two cheaters, than I agree with you. If they end up having to deal with rampant cheating throughout the sport you run the risk of tarnishing your product. I also suppose you run a greater risk if the cheating gets exposed and you simply ignore it.

How is it tarnished if you can point to how the offenders are sitting at home watching the tournament on TV. The ACC also has a rule that if you are not allowed to participate in the NCAA tournament in your sport, then you can't be in the ACC tournament for your sport. In men's b-ball that means lost $$$. People will still watch and only the super hard-core (like those who call into sports radio) will complain.

 

[Newhouser]

How is it tarnished if you can point to how the offenders are sitting at home watching the tournament on TV. The ACC also has a rule that if you are not allowed to participate in the NCAA tournament in your sport, then you can't be in the ACC tournament for your sport. In men's b-ball that means lost $$$. People will still watch and only the super hard-core (like those who call into sports radio) will complain.

I agree and I don't think you can tarnish it because the public doesn't care. There will be faux outrage by the media and some fans - but again - this is steroids in baseball. We all know its corrupt, we will act offended and get on our soap box, but we don't care, we know its happening, getting fired up about it is hypocritical.

 

[RF2044]

I agree and I don't think you can tarnish it because the public doesn't care. There will be faux outrage by the media and some fans - but again - this is steroids in baseball. We all know its corrupt, we will act offended and get on our soap box, but we don't care, we know its happening, getting fired up about it is hypocritical.

"We?"

That's a bunch of BS.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I AM angry that some teams cheat with impunity, while others get slapped by the NCAA over the most minor infractions. I'm disgusted that serial cheaters like Bruce Pearl and Sean Miller can get caught red-handed, and still have their jobs. I think it sucks that it took the FBI to get the NCAA to even begin pretending that there was a problem.

And that has nothing to do with some romanticized version of amateur athletics from the 1980s.

This is nothing like steroids in baseball -- people didn't ultimately care about that because the players were choosing to do that to their own bodies, the only faux outrage came from historical stat purists wringing their hands.

What's being uncovered here is institutionalized cheating on a grand scale, while a hypocritical, ineffectual regulatory body blinks stupidly nearby.

 

[Newhouser]

"We?"

That's a bunch of BS.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I AM angry that some teams cheat with impunity, while others get slapped by the NCAA over the most minor infractions. I'm disgusted that serial cheaters like Bruce Pearl and Sean Miller can get caught red-handed, and still have their jobs. I think it sucks that it took the FBI to get the NCAA to even begin pretending that there was a problem.

And that has nothing to do with some romanticized version of amateur athletics from the 1980s.

This is nothing like steroids in baseball -- people didn't ultimately care about that because the players were choosing to do that to their own bodies, the only faux outrage came from historical stat purists wringing their hands.

What's being uncovered here is institutionalized cheating on a grand scale, while a hypocritical, ineffectual regulatory body blinks stupidly nearby.

so what are you doing about it with your anger? Boycotting live games? Not watching games on TV? Players taking steroids in MLB while owners turned a blind eye was approved cheating. Hoops players are choosing to take money from handlers, sneaker companies, whoever, and nobody does anything about it, that IMHO is as you called it "institutionalized cheating". What is being uncovered is something that we all know has been happening all along.

 

[RF2044]

so what are you doing about it with your anger? Boycotting live games? Not watching games on TV? Players taking steroids in MLB while owners turned a blind eye was approved cheating. Hoops players are choosing to take money from handlers, sneaker companies, whoever, and nobody does anything about it, that IMHO is as you called it "institutionalized cheating". What is being uncovered is something that we all know has been happening all along.

No, it is not something that we all knew has been happening. Some may have suspected, some have alluded, while others have derided suggestions that there were bags of money being exchanged.

The sneaker companies working directly with assistance coaches to steer players is a little different than some of the booster nonsense that has taken place since the beginning of time. Which, for the record, the NCAA SHOULD be looking to curtail, as well.

That money is being exchanged on such a grand scale, with sneaker companies actively being involved, is not something that was widely known. Look in any thread about Calipari, and you'll see posters from this forum defend him as having never been directly implicated in having two schools vacate final fours. So no -- this is not something that everybody "knew" was happening, accepted was happening, or understood how deep the corruption ran. There's a difference between people having suspicions, and having confirmatory evidence -- which we now have, thanks to the FBI.

You need to stop painting with such a wide brush.

 

[RF2044]

so what are you doing about it with your anger? Boycotting live games? Not watching games on TV? Players taking steroids in MLB while owners turned a blind eye was approved cheating. Hoops players are choosing to take money from handlers, sneaker companies, whoever, and nobody does anything about it, that IMHO is as you called it "institutionalized cheating". What is being uncovered is something that we all know has been happening all along.

Oh, and what am I doing?

I sent an email to Mark Emmert when this scandal broke, blasting the NCAA for being complicit while this was going on. I sent an email to him chastising the hypocrisy of his "wheelhouse" comment re: UNC, which conveniently moved the goalposts and let them off the hook.

On this forum, I've repeatedly expressed dissatisfaction with the NCAA as an ineffectual governing body -- and when the time comes, I'm going to support the P5 breaking off and forming their own league, with rules that are applicable to contemporary college athletics as big business.

And I've been criticized for taking that stance, with admonitions about "be careful what you wish for" and "what replaces it might be worse." I'm not sure how that is possible, frankly -- the system we currently have in place is about as bad as it could possibly be, given the hypocritical stance supported by the NCAA re: amateur athletics.

 

[dollarbill44]

How is it damaging to them? Everyone says this but no one can explain how. They came down hard on Southern Cal over Reggie Bush. When did they become nobodies in football?

It isn't money. The NCAA gets $0.00 from any sport's regular season in all the divisions. They get the same payout from CBS for the tournament contract regardless of who is or who isn't in the tournament and the current contract runs to 2025, IIRC.

So what is it?

How can anyone look at recent actions by the NCAA and draw a conclusion other than the big names get special treatment? How can UNC keep hundreds of athletes eligible over several years through fraudulent classes and the NCAA says it's not their place to get involved??? How does PSU get all of their wins back and all of their scholarships and bowl eligibility back after just 1 season??? Johnny Manziel gets caught getting paid for autographs and is allowed to pay it back, no questions asked? Meanwhile, SU helps on a paper, another guy works at a camp and gets $800 and a few kids had positive pot tests under a drug policy that wasn't even required by the NCAA and we get hammered?

Forgive me for not seeing the impartiality of the institute.

 

[Newhouser]

No, it is not something that we all knew has been happening. Some may have suspected, some have alluded, while others have derided suggestions that there were bags of money being exchanged.

The sneaker companies working directly with assistance coaches to steer players is a little different than some of the booster nonsense that has taken place since the beginning of time. Which, for the record, the NCAA SHOULD be looking to curtail, as well.

That money is being exchanged on such a grand scale, with sneaker companies actively being involved, is not something that was widely known. Look in any thread about Calipari, and you'll see posters from this forum defend him as having never been directly implicated in having two schools vacate final fours. So no -- this is not something that everybody "knew" was happening, accepted was happening, or understood how deep the corruption ran. There's a difference between people having suspicions, and having confirmatory evidence -- which we now have, thanks to the FBI.

You need to stop painting with such a wide brush.

Why is the sneaker money different than the booster money? How do we know the scale is that much grander? It may be occurring on a grander scale (or it may not), but why are we more upset about it now? The cheating is more effective? More widespread? At what point is the line drawn to say - I can tolerate cheating but only up to this level?