NIL

[elimunelson]

Flowers was offered around 500k to transfer to Miami from BC. He stuck around. They had to pay him something to stay but the whole thing is getting unseemly.

Do we think Tucker didn’t get some sort of NIL to stay at Syracuse? Not sure it has to be public mind you

 

[Boggs59]

Flowers was offered around 500k to transfer to Miami from BC. He stuck around. They had to pay him something to stay but the whole thing is getting unseemly.

Do we think Tucker didn’t get some sort of NIL to stay at Syracuse? Not sure it has to be public mind you

I think Flowers was offered $600 K...he is staying at BC..Addison was offered $3.5 million and just signed with USC.. Flowers...the rumor is...was offered by Miami. This John Ruiz is very aggressively, very up front about it...attempting to buy elite college players. This stuff is all pay to play. It is not NIL. Just boosters creating a slush fund for athletes...for example, say $15 million...and then asking players to front some silly, bogus product...Super Dust Cleaner.

Welcome to college FB 2022.

 

[elimunelson]

I think Flowers was offered $600 K...he is staying at BC..Addison was offered $3.5 million and just signed with USC.. Flowers...the rumor is...was offered by Miami. This John Ruiz is very aggressively, very up front about it...attempting to buy elite college players. This stuff is all pay to play. It is not NIL. Just boosters creating a slush fund for athletes...for example, say $15 million...and then asking players to front some silly, bogus product...Super Dust Cleaner.

Welcome to college FB 2022.

He was offered by Miami confirmed by those in the know and BC did counter but they haven't reported that part. They made it seem like Flowers was maganimous to stay for nothing but that isn't the case. I think guys are playing that game too.

The whole thing is unseemly. Not that guys are getting paid but there's zero rules to this.

 

[javadoc]

He was offered by Miami confirmed by those in the know and BC did counter but they haven't reported that part. They made it seem like Flowers was maganimous to stay for nothing but that isn't the case. I think guys are playing that game too.

The whole thing is unseemly. Not that guys are getting paid but there's zero rules to this.

Nothing is going to get better unless the schools, like BC in this case, rat out the scumbags who are tampering. How can you "counter" an offer without knowing that there is an offer? We had better not get into the game of paying this kind of blackmail. Tell the players to hit the bricks and pursue enforcement through the NCAA, or legally, if possible.

 

[Horn88]

He was offered by Miami confirmed by those in the know and BC did counter but they haven't reported that part. They made it seem like Flowers was maganimous to stay for nothing but that isn't the case. I think guys are playing that game too.

The whole thing is unseemly. Not that guys are getting paid but there's zero rules to this.

That’s the part I always laugh about. People either willfully or ignorantly gloss over when these players come out or people say school XYZ that they they didn’t go to offered someone $100k are we expected to believe they just went somewhere else for free?

 

[tep624]

Buying recruits is illegal. Always has been including now with NIL. Saban even said in one article it’s illegal so if a bama collective starts buying recruits, he’s already admitted he’s breaking the rules. Hope they all try to cheat and it blows up in their faces.

Horns' linemen hook $50K NIL deal to aid causes

Through a movement called "Horns with Heart," 16 offensive linemen at Texas will each receive $50,000 annually to aid charities through a name, image and likeness deal.

www.espn.com

That one is my personal favorite. You could do this anywhere. Form a collective of former alums with a front as a "Charity Org" and then give out wide ranging NIL deals. And these generic position group type NIL deals - I'm not sure how that can be qualified as anything other than a recruiting inducement. You're effectively offering an annual salary to anyone with a warm pulse that wears a specific team's uniform.

I think allowing players with with star power to make legitimate money off their NIL is the right path, but this kind of stuff is ridiculous. But it's the NCAA so I'm not sure why I'm surprised.

 

[javadoc]

Horns' linemen hook $50K NIL deal to aid causes

Through a movement called "Horns with Heart," 16 offensive linemen at Texas will each receive $50,000 annually to aid charities through a name, image and likeness deal.

www.espn.com

That one is my personal favorite. You could do this anywhere. Form a collective of former alums with a front as a "Charity Org" and then give out wide ranging NIL deals. And these generic position group type NIL deals - I'm not sure how that can be qualified as anything other than a recruiting inducement. You're effectively offering an annual salary to anyone with a warm pulse that wears a specific team's uniform.

I think allowing players with with star power to make legitimate money off their NIL is the right path, but this kind of stuff is ridiculous. But it's the NCAA so I'm not sure why I'm surprised.

Yup. If you are offering money based solely on the position, before you even know who the player is, it is not NIL. Period. And that needs to be hammered, like yesterday.

 

[Cuse'91]

Yup. If you are offering money based solely on the position, before you even know who the player is, it is not NIL. Period. And that needs to be hammered, like yesterday.

How so? It's for the work the individual does(i.e. the position they play in this case.) How it that different from other endorsement deals that are based purely on a job/occupation position held.
An example would be; if I wanted to hire the cast of a certain musical to endorse my product, doesn't matter who the individuals are, or even if you don't know who those people will be, or if actors change.

 

[tep624]

How so? It's for the work the individual does(i.e. the position they play in this case.) How it that different from other endorsement deals that are based purely on a job/occupation position held.
An example would be; if I wanted to hire the cast of a certain musical to endorse my product, doesn't matter who the individuals are, or even if you don't know who those people will be, or if actors change.

I’m not sure I know of many musical fans that are going to crowd source funds and create a shell company in order to induce certain actors to perform in certain musicals.

NIL as it exists was intended to compensate players fairly on the open market for their NIL. Key word being their. This is not that. This is a broadstroke package intended to be used as a recruiting tool for the school that happens to compensate players in the process. Effectively it isn’t compensation for the NIL of the player, it’s an effort at utilizing NIL as a marketing tool for the program.

 

[javadoc]

How so? It's for the work the individual does(i.e. the position they play in this case.) How it that different from other endorsement deals that are based purely on a job/occupation position held.
An example would be; if I wanted to hire the cast of a certain musical to endorse my product, doesn't matter who the individuals are, or even if you don't know who those people will be, or if actors change.

You can't establish a deal for Name, Image, and Likeness until you have Name, Image, and Likeness.

The whole point of this stupid charade is that NIL is a person trading on aspects of his own inherent identity. Until a particular person enrolls at a school and establishes that his identity is marketable, monies thrown his way are pay for play. Monies guaranteed to "the starting left tackle" regardless of who it is are targeting the "NIL" of the position, the jersey, not the player. And that is not NIL. It's cheating.

Didn't I read somewhere that players aren't allowed to wear their jerseys when appearing in NIL-related activities, also?

 

[Cuse'91]

You can't establish a deal for Name, Image, and Likeness until you have Name, Image, and Likeness.

The whole point of this stupid charade is that NIL is a person trading on aspects of his own inherent identity. Until a particular person enrolls at a school and establishes that his identity is marketable, monies thrown his way are pay for play. Monies guaranteed to "the starting left tackle" regardless of who it is are targeting the "NIL" of the position, the jersey, not the player. And that is not NIL. It's cheating.

Didn't I read somewhere that players aren't allowed to wear their jerseys when appearing in NIL-related activities, also?

Sorry, but don't agree. It's a contract that forms when a kid accepts a position on the UT Longhorns team. You saying that NIL's are for these kids "inherent" good looks?

 

[tep624]

You can't establish a deal for Name, Image, and Likeness until you have Name, Image, and Likeness.

The whole point of this stupid charade is that NIL is a person trading on aspects of his own inherent identity. Until a particular person enrolls at a school and establishes that his identity is marketable, monies thrown his way are pay for play. Monies guaranteed to "the starting left tackle" regardless of who it is are targeting the "NIL" of the position, the jersey, not the player. And that is not NIL. It's cheating.

Didn't I read somewhere that players aren't allowed to wear their jerseys when appearing in NIL-related activities, also?

What the NCAA simply should have done is say that NIL deals need to be for a specific player, from a reputable, existing company (could easily put in a minimum annual revenue over last 5 years or something like that hurdle), and it needs to be for the use of the player’s NIL in some business capacity by the sponsoring business. That’s it. Anything else that falls outside the lines of that is subject for review and if it’s found the NIL offer didn’t respect the confines of the rule structure then the player, school and company offering the NiL were all subject to sanctions as a result. It’s not rocket science here.

I do think it’s interesting to see these collectives pop up. It basically validated that the bag of cash schools always existed.

 

[tep624]

Sorry, but don't agree. It's a contract that forms when a kid accepts a position on the UT Longhorns team. You saying that NIL's are for these kids "inherent" good looks?

You don’t think it’s strange that they picked the offensive line position group, which is about the least marketable group on the team, instead of the RB’s or WR’s? They picked a position group with the least amount of NIL opportunities on an individual basis, in general, in order to market that opportunity to prospective recruits, for the school. It’s just a subsidy so that all UT players (eventually based on how they want to expand it) get some sort of payment. That’s not NIL.

NIL is Coca Cola wanting to pay Mikel Jones $500k annually to be the face of their Coke marketing campaigns in upstate NY based on who he is and the draw that he is.

 

[Cuse'91]

You don’t think it’s strange that they picked the offensive line position group, which is about the least marketable group on the team, instead of the RB’s or WR’s? They picked a position group with the least amount of NIL opportunities on an individual basis, in general, in order to market that opportunity to prospective recruits, for the school. It’s just a subsidy so that all UT players (eventually based on how they want to expand it) get some sort of payment. That’s not NIL.

NIL is Coca Cola wanting to pay Mikel Jones $500k annually to be the face of their Coke marketing campaigns in upstate NY based on who he is and the draw that he is.

Again, I just can't concur that the scope of NIL is bound so strictly.

 

[Cuse'91]

You don’t think it’s strange that they picked the offensive line position group, which is about the least marketable group on the team, instead of the RB’s or WR’s? They picked a position group with the least amount of NIL opportunities on an individual basis, in general, in order to market that opportunity to prospective recruits, for the school. It’s just a subsidy so that all UT players (eventually based on how they want to expand it) get some sort of payment. That’s not NIL.

NIL is Coca Cola wanting to pay Mikel Jones $500k annually to be the face of their Coke marketing campaigns in upstate NY based on who he is and the draw that he is.

Why can't a local Syracuse butcher shop give an endorsement deal to the starting 5 Orange OLine as the "Syracuse Hogs?" That deal applies to whomever is a starter for that particular season.

 

[shantydaze]

He is wrong. Boosters cannot buy recruits. A booster is considered part of the school. Very ncaa policy’s says so. I’ve gotten many of those warnings over the years with my season tix. It’s nothing new so I don’t know what mandel is talking about. The only way it could work is if these people in these collectives aren’t considered boosters because they never have a penny to the university, had season tix, etc. If they weren’t boosters I don’t know why they’d pay a recruit in the first place.

The rule that was established by the NCAA on June 30, 2021 included language that schools must follow their state's NIL law if one was in place. IIRC, there are about 28 states that have NIL laws on the books with varying language. Tennessee's law allows the collectives, players, and coaching staff to work in conjunction with each other to sign NIL deals. Some states have blanket prohibitions on an institution, whether the school or NCAA, from taking any action against an athlete for receipt of NIL money (which would include NIL money form boosters for pay-to-play). Other states do have restrictions on pay-for-play NIL deals. It is such a mixed bag that we can no longer make blanket statements like "Boosters cannot buy recruits." In some states that is true, in others it is not.

 

[Boggs59]

He was offered by Miami confirmed by those in the know and BC did counter but they haven't reported that part. They made it seem like Flowers was maganimous to stay for nothing but that isn't the case. I think guys are playing that game too.

The whole thing is unseemly. Not that guys are getting paid but there's zero rules to this.

Flowers already had 2 NIL deals at BC. Those were known. One with an auto dealership. It was in the ESPN article. They were much smaller though...much what NIL was anticipated to be...but not anywhere in neighborhood of $600K. This John Ruiz at Miami is a booster targeting top players all over the nation. Addison was approached by Miami too...USC outbid them...LOL.

It's only going to be blue chip players. Addison and Flowers will go very high in NFL draft.

Miami will be one of the worst of the NIL offenders

 

[shantydaze]

Historically, when Saban makes comments like these people try to paint it as whining when it’s proven to be a warning more than anything.

HUNH, CFP, Transfer rule. Now it’s NIL that cost him a couple recruits last year and the word is Bama is starting a collective and loading up the vault.

Yes and no. It depends on the issue.

In 2016, Saban complained about Northern teams conducting satellite camps in Southern states because these teams were impugning his built-in geographic advantage for access to players. As a result, the NCAA voted to restrict such camps. Saban was not issuing a warning prior to exploiting a loophole. He was trying to regulate a practice because he was not going to be able to benefit from the rule while other schools would.

I see this being a very similar issue. Alabama (although Saban, like Renault in Casablanca, would shocked to hear about it) has a long-rumored and well established bag network for recruits. This gives Alabama a competitive advantage over other schools in recruiting battles. With NIL, the effectiveness of the bag network has been compromised and I assume the under-the-table value for players was lower than the NIL numbers.

I am not convinced an Alabama collective will have the funds to compete with some schools like Texas and Texas A&M. Yes, it will likely be able to rake in more funds than a Syracuse collective, but not as against all schools. So, I saw his comments to be more about self-preservation as well as to indirectly tell the state legislature to pass a very lenient NIL law and for his boosters to step up their game.

Also of some interest, Saban apparently earns $275,000 from the University of Alabama and $9.2 million in a talent fee from The Crimson Tide Foundation.

 

[Willy75]

Flowers was offered around 500k to transfer to Miami from BC. He stuck around. They had to pay him something to stay but the whole thing is getting unseemly.

Do we think Tucker didn’t get some sort of NIL to stay at Syracuse? Not sure it has to be public mind you

This is why sitting out a year after transferring should be reinstated asa.

 

[Willy75]

Yes and no. It depends on the issue.

In 2016, Saban complained about Northern teams conducting satellite camps in Southern states because these teams were impugning his built-in geographic advantage for access to players. As a result, the NCAA voted to restrict such camps. Saban was not issuing a warning prior to exploiting a loophole. He was trying to regulate a practice because he was not going to be able to benefit from the rule while other schools would.

I see this being a very similar issue. Alabama (although Saban, like Renault in Casablanca, would shocked to hear about it) has a long-rumored and well established bag network for recruits. This gives Alabama a competitive advantage over other schools in recruiting battles. With NIL, the effectiveness of the bag network has been compromised and I assume the under-the-table value for players was lower than the NIL numbers.

I am not convinced an Alabama collective will have the funds to compete with some schools like Texas and Texas A&M. Yes, it will likely be able to rake in more funds than a Syracuse collective, but not as against all schools. So, I saw his comments to be more about self-preservation as well as to indirectly tell the state legislature to pass a very lenient NIL law and for his boosters to step up their game.

Also of some interest, Saban apparently earns $275,000 from the University of Alabama and $9.2 million in a talent fee from The Crimson Tide Foundation.

I’m as tired as anyone of Alabama’s predominance. But when the warning is coming from the guy at the top of the heap, who can likely outgun 95% of the schools out there in NIL money, it has more credence and immediacy.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You can't establish a deal for Name, Image, and Likeness until you have Name, Image, and Likeness.

The whole point of this stupid charade is that NIL is a person trading on aspects of his own inherent identity. Until a particular person enrolls at a school and establishes that his identity is marketable, monies thrown his way are pay for play. Monies guaranteed to "the starting left tackle" regardless of who it is are targeting the "NIL" of the position, the jersey, not the player. And that is not NIL. It's cheating.

Didn't I read somewhere that players aren't allowed to wear their jerseys when appearing in NIL-related activities, also?

I'm pro NIL but believe your take here is 100% spot on.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yes and no. It depends on the issue.

In 2016, Saban complained about Northern teams conducting satellite camps in Southern states because these teams were impugning his built-in geographic advantage for access to players. As a result, the NCAA voted to restrict such camps. Saban was not issuing a warning prior to exploiting a loophole. He was trying to regulate a practice because he was not going to be able to benefit from the rule while other schools would.

I see this being a very similar issue. Alabama (although Saban, like Renault in Casablanca, would shocked to hear about it) has a long-rumored and well established bag network for recruits. This gives Alabama a competitive advantage over other schools in recruiting battles. With NIL, the effectiveness of the bag network has been compromised and I assume the under-the-table value for players was lower than the NIL numbers.

I am not convinced an Alabama collective will have the funds to compete with some schools like Texas and Texas A&M. Yes, it will likely be able to rake in more funds than a Syracuse collective, but not as against all schools. So, I saw his comments to be more about self-preservation as well as to indirectly tell the state legislature to pass a very lenient NIL law and for his boosters to step up their game.

Also of some interest, Saban apparently earns $275,000 from the University of Alabama and $9.2 million in a talent fee from The Crimson Tide Foundation.

Saban will exploit every advantage he possibly can and can't handle it at all when others have an advantage.

He's a coward. He learned in the NFL that he can't win fair fights.

 

[rrlbees]

The rule that was established by the NCAA on June 30, 2021 included language that schools must follow their state's NIL law if one was in place. IIRC, there are about 28 states that have NIL laws on the books with varying language. Tennessee's law allows the collectives, players, and coaching staff to work in conjunction with each other to sign NIL deals. Some states have blanket prohibitions on an institution, whether the school or NCAA, from taking any action against an athlete for receipt of NIL money (which would include NIL money form boosters for pay-to-play). Other states do have restrictions on pay-for-play NIL deals. It is such a mixed bag that we can no longer make blanket statements like "Boosters cannot buy recruits." In some states that is true, in others it is not.

The policy addresses college athletes. It also specifically states pay for play and recruiting inducements aren’t allowed. I don’t feel them saying states can have their own rules applies to recruits and only applies to what NIL was meant to be for NCAA student athletes.

 

[Horn88]

Yes and no. It depends on the issue.

In 2016, Saban complained about Northern teams conducting satellite camps in Southern states because these teams were impugning his built-in geographic advantage for access to players. As a result, the NCAA voted to restrict such camps. Saban was not issuing a warning prior to exploiting a loophole. He was trying to regulate a practice because he was not going to be able to benefit from the rule while other schools would.

I see this being a very similar issue. Alabama (although Saban, like Renault in Casablanca, would shocked to hear about it) has a long-rumored and well established bag network for recruits. This gives Alabama a competitive advantage over other schools in recruiting battles. With NIL, the effectiveness of the bag network has been compromised and I assume the under-the-table value for players was lower than the NIL numbers.

I am not convinced an Alabama collective will have the funds to compete with some schools like Texas and Texas A&M. Yes, it will likely be able to rake in more funds than a Syracuse collective, but not as against all schools. So, I saw his comments to be more about self-preservation as well as to indirectly tell the state legislature to pass a very lenient NIL law and for his boosters to step up their game.

Also of some interest, Saban apparently earns $275,000 from the University of Alabama and $9.2 million in a talent fee from The Crimson Tide Foundation.

Satellite camps is a good counter example. I think if they kept going and some of those SEC schools started having camps in CA, TX and the DMV they probably would’ve had a good ROI and come out ahead.

You’re likely right that A&M and Texas along with some others will be able to outspend Alabama. USC will have no shortage of funds. I think they have the most billionaire alumni of any P5 except Stanford and obviously being in LA has advantages. Bama’s network will do whatever it takes to squeeze everything they can out of the Saban era though so I wouldn’t expect them to just throw their hands up and pout.

 

[Boggs59]

Collectives are the work around that A&M figured out before everyone else. It’s not the school and is legal so no cheating is involved.

Yes ..it's legal way of what most would call..
Well, cheating. It has to be legislated out. These are slush funds. All the Aggie recruits are millionaires. This guy who is NIL attorney is a paid hack.

This is the new normal???

The only reason it is legal as yhere sre no real rules. This is the Wild, Wild West.