Spoiler Alert Official Star Wars Force Awakens Spoiler Thread

[Melancer46]

Yeah, it's suggestive but I'm struggling to understand why Snoke wouldn't resemble San Hill (another Muun) anatomically. Alternatively, if Plageuis chose another body as a 'vessel' to inhabit (thus no Muun resemblance required), why not choose one that had taken less damage than what we see manifested in Snoke?

None of this adds up; weakens the Plageuis theory if you ask me.

1. Based on what is and isn't canon, Plageuis' race is no longer necessarily Muun, so even if Snoke isn't a Muun (which he still may be), it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't Plageuis.
2. It seems to me that whoever Snoke is is not some new body; it's a disfigured body due to something traumatic that happened to him.

At any rate, I'm very curious to learn more about him. Whoever he is, Leia knew about him before Ben became Kylo Ren; in the novel, it's revealed that she had feared that Snoke would get in Ben's ear for a long time but didn't tell Han about it, and that betrayal was a big reason that Han left her. My theory had always been that Snoke was a partner of Luke's at the academy and he convinced Ben to turn against the academy from the inside and that they then ran off together, but that becomes a little more complicated because it now appears that Kylo Ren is the one that drops Rey off on Jakku, in which case it seems strange that Snoke wouldn't know about it (which he doesn't appear to).

 

[MCC]

 

[orangefan13]

Ok I saw it my review (without reading the other posts yet).
After seeing it I said it was better then the first second third episode two days later I strongly disagreed.

Where this one went wrong.
First off, The best charectors were Han solo and the black guy. I liked the jet fighter that was with them to. Rey was cute but just not tough enough to be a jedi leader. "It was like a lets go win guys, the force is with me now lets go do a cartwheel during a battle scene."

The bad guy was a harry potter ripoff literally who was corny cheesy slightly funny for a second but mentally unstable to a unstable comical utter mess. I wasn't looking for a cheezy version of Batman's Ridler to kick off the main badguy, thats a minor side plot bad guys role. The thought he is returning is concerning. He made the dark side of the force look weak and prissy.

More that was lacking.
1.The environment didn't take over the characters at any point, this was a central theme with all the starwars up to this one and desperetely lacking. They don't even have the force and they are not struggling against anything but the first order at any point. Even jedi masters struggled against things other than the darkside. Leia was alright but came off to hillary clinton oprah-like instead of a ambassador role for my taste. No toughmindness, no hardship look, and not enough time,plot or definiton about her role as a leader or her struggle against the darkside for such a important character.
2. They didn't spend to long in any particular environment.
3.. They acted in the environment instead of reacting to it.
4. There wasn't enough just boring socializing that makes Starwars great or love story involved. No nightime dream or meditation scenes.
5. The battle scenes were lacking. To much broadway not enough War in Star Wars.
6. The darkside didn't really have enough cutscenes or definition to really develop it.
All that could have been included, but wasn't. Short and rushed without it.

I understand the force was missing from the universe but they never took the time to visit a true historian and learn alot about it. I liked the pink heidy(ncis) nerdy-like alien but it was short lived.

To reiterate I liked it better then the episode 1,2, and 3 after the movie but two days later disagreed strongly. Worst starwars yet, and thats no knock on Disney (I am a huge fan) This may be the first movie of theirs I don't like. They just took the wrong approach.

It lacked development the entire movie. I am not left really wanting to see any of the main charectors again, outside the black guy (can't remember his name) and Luke. Atleast the girl was cute and flirty. The main black guy had to much worry and self absorbment to ever find the force imo, You can't grow the force when you surrender to lots of worry fear and selfishness as opposed to pain and suffering at a young age, let alone a adult age. It would ruin his character to give it to him at this point, as he is cool enough as he is.

Its going to be tough to save this series unless a couple new characters take over this series, and the harry potter badguy becomes a whole new character the next episode. I leave this one behind as a flop. However I will still watch it a few more times because its star wars. At its worst "ok".

 

[JJReddawg]

Ok I saw it my review (without reading the other posts yet).
After seeing it I said it was better then the first second third episode two days later I strongly disagreed.

Where this one went wrong.
First off, The best charectors were Han solo and the black guy. I liked the jet fighter that was with them to. Rey was cute but just not tough enough to be a jedi leader. "It was like a lets go win guys, the force is with me now lets go do a cartwheel during a battle scene."

The bad guy was a harry potter ripoff literally who was corny cheesy slightly funny for a second but mentally unstable to a unstable comical utter mess. I wasn't looking for a cheezy version of Batman's Ridler to kick off the main badguy, thats a minor side plot bad guys role. The thought he is returning is concerning. He made the dark side of the force look weak and prissy.

More that was lacking.
1.The environment didn't take over the characters at any point, this was a central theme with all the starwars up to this one and desperetely lacking. They don't even have the force and they are not struggling against anything but the first order at any point. Even jedi masters struggled against things other than the darkside. Leia was alright but came off to hillary clinton oprah-like instead of a ambassador role for my taste. No toughmindness, no hardship look, and not enough time,plot or definiton about her role as a leader or her struggle against the darkside for such a important character.
2. They didn't spend to long in any particular environment.
3.. They acted in the environment instead of reacting to it.
4. There wasn't enough just boring socializing that makes Starwars great or love story involved. No nightime dream or meditation scenes.
5. The battle scenes were lacking. To much broadway not enough War in Star Wars.
6. The darkside didn't really have enough cutscenes or definition to really develop it.
All that could have been included, but wasn't. Short and rushed without it.

I understand the force was missing from the universe but they never took the time to visit a true historian and learn alot about it. I liked the pink heidy(ncis) nerdy-like alien but it was short lived.

To reiterate I liked it better then the episode 1,2, and 3 after the movie but two days later disagreed strongly. Worst starwars yet, and thats no knock on Disney (I am a huge fan) This may be the first movie of theirs I don't like. They just took the wrong approach.

It lacked development the entire movie. I am not left really wanting to see any of the main charectors again, outside the black guy (can't remember his name) and Luke. Atleast the girl was cute and flirty. The main black guy had to much worry to ever find the force imo, You can't grow the force when you surrender to lots of worry fear as opposed to pain and suffering. It would ruin his charector to give it to him at this point, hes cool enough as he is.

Its going to be tough to save this series unless a couple new characters take over this series, and the harry potter badguy becomes a whole new character the next episode. I leave this one behind as a flop. However I will still watch it a few more times because its star wars. At its worst "ok".

 

[DoubleDee]

Ok I saw it my review (without reading the other posts yet). After seeing it I said it was better then the first second third episode two days later I strongly disagreed. Where this one went wrong. First off, The best charectors were Han solo and the black guy. I liked the jet fighter that was with them to. Rey was cute but just not tough enough to be a jedi leader. "It was like a lets go win guys, the force is with me now lets go do a cartwheel during a battle scene." The bad guy was a harry potter ripoff literally who was corny cheesy slightly funny for a second but mentally unstable to a unstable comical utter mess. I wasn't looking for a cheezy version of Batman's Ridler to kick off the main badguy, thats a minor side plot bad guys role. The thought he is returning is concerning. He made the dark side of the force look weak and prissy. More that was lacking. 1.The environment didn't take over the characters at any point, this was a central theme with all the starwars up to this one and desperetely lacking. They don't even have the force and they are not struggling against anything but the first order at any point. Even jedi masters struggled against things other than the darkside. Leia was alright but came off to hillary clinton oprah-like instead of a ambassador role for my taste. No toughmindness, no hardship look, and not enough time,plot or definiton about her role as a leader or her struggle against the darkside for such a important character. 2. They didn't spend to long in any particular environment. 3.. They acted in the environment instead of reacting to it. 4. There wasn't enough just boring socializing that makes Starwars great or love story involved. No nightime dream or meditation scenes. 5. The battle scenes were lacking. To much broadway not enough War in Star Wars. 6. The darkside didn't really have enough cutscenes or definition to really develop it. All that could have been included, but wasn't. Short and rushed without it. I understand the force was missing from the universe but they never took the time to visit a true historian and learn alot about it. I liked the pink heidy(ncis) nerdy-like alien but it was short lived. To reiterate I liked it better then the episode 1,2, and 3 after the movie but two days later disagreed strongly. Worst starwars yet, and thats no knock on Disney (I am a huge fan) This may be the first movie of theirs I don't like. They just took the wrong approach. It lacked development the entire movie. I am not left really wanting to see any of the main charectors again, outside the black guy (can't remember his name) and Luke. Atleast the girl was cute and flirty. The main black guy had to much worry and self absorbment to ever find the force imo, You can't grow the force when you surrender to lots of worry fear and selfishness as opposed to pain and suffering at a young age, let alone a adult age. It would ruin his character to give it to him at this point, as he is cool enough as he is. Its going to be tough to save this series unless a couple new characters take over this series, and the harry potter badguy becomes a whole new character the next episode. I leave this one behind as a flop. However I will still watch it a few more times because its star wars. At its worst "ok".

I clicked on this and realized "I can't even begin to respond to this without collecting my thoughts. There's just too too much to argue here."

Wow

 

[upperdeck]

crazy talk.. i went again yesterday.. it was super busy. sell outs all day, huge lines. ovation at the end.

fun times to remember 1977 all over again. my kids who have completely different tastes in movies and while the have seen most of the originals not really super big star wars fans, couldnt stop talking all the way home.

 

[Day2]

Whoah. Crazy thought...

What if Luke Skywalker got busy with Obi wan Kenobi's long lost daughter? So she's both Luke's Daughter AND Ben's granddaughter. That would be one powerful Jedi.

*edit... It's not such a crazy thought. IF kenobi had a daughter, she's certainly be force sensitive. If Luke was training new Jedi after Ep 6, it stands to reason he would have identified her and trained her. Perhaps they fell in love, had Rey, and she was killed during Ben Solo's rebellion. To protect her, Luke sent her off to Jakku to save her from her cousin.

I'm firmly in this camp now. It would help explain how she's so powerful without any training. And it's like the double twist in Scream. Half of it was obvious, while the other half was a genuine surprise.

 

[orangefog]

I'm firmly in this camp now. It would help explain how she's so powerful without any training. And it's like the double twist in Scream. Half of it was obvious, while the other half was a genuine surprise.

Whoa, wait, what if Yoda was androgynous and he/she and Luke had an encounter and the gestation period, for whatever Yoda is, is years, and the baby could be sustained in Yoda's dead body or as an egg. And, while half Yodian, the human part is dominant in appearance, but the force is tremendously strong.

 

[BlazeOrange]

I already have a hard time accepting the idea of Luke having a kid; I don't think I'll be able to handle it if him and Obi-Wan both did. I'd rather Rey be a random person (which I can't imagine she is) than to be the child of Luke and Obi-Wan's daughter.

I can accept Luke having a kid, he represents a new era of Jedi and could ignore some of the old "rules". They'd need to do some explaining on why his sister and best friend didn't know about her though, as I believe she'd have been born before Luke went into hiding. Could she be a daughter that he didn't even know about? Maybe he had a period where he hooking up with randoms while sorting out the light/dark struggles within.

At this point, he's the front runner for dad and I trust they'll explain it somehow. Which takes us to mom, where I like the Kenobi bloodline idea. Dual lineage would justify Rey's overpowered status and self-training ability. For those doubting that Obi Wan would also have a kid, maybe he had a brother of sister who did and Rey's mom is his niece or something. Maybe Obi Wan used some sort of force magic beyond Luke's training to hide their identities. Not sure if he would've foreseen the two interacting, let alone having a kid, so Rey's birth could have awaken something in Luke's force sensing. If the parents were together, we still have the problems of others knowing about her and/or need to explain why he'd choose to hide her away (either immediately or after the collapse of his Jedi academy).

 

[Melancer46]

I can accept Luke having a kid, he represents a new era of Jedi and could ignore some of the old "rules". They'd need to do some explaining on why his sister and best friend didn't know about her though, as I believe she'd have been born before Luke went into hiding. Could she be a daughter that he didn't even know about? Maybe he had a period where he hooking up with randoms while sorting out the light/dark struggles within.

At this point, he's the front runner for dad and I trust they'll explain it somehow. Which takes us to mom, where I like the Kenobi bloodline idea. Dual lineage would justify Rey's overpowered status and self-training ability. For those doubting that Obi Wan would also have a kid, maybe he had a brother of sister who did and Rey's mom is his niece or something. Maybe Obi Wan used some sort of force magic beyond Luke's training to hide their identities. Not sure if he would've foreseen the two interacting, let alone having a kid, so Rey's birth could have awaken something in Luke's force sensing. If the parents were together, we still have the problems of others knowing about her and/or need to explain why he'd choose to hide her away (either immediately or after the collapse of his Jedi academy).

My new theory is that Kylo Ren saved her when he made his attack on the Academy and then dropped her off on Jakku but Luke, Han, Leia, etc. believed her to be killed in the attack. The one flaw in that theory probably is that Leia feels it whenever someone close to her dies and presumably, she wouldn't have felt it in this case since Rey is clearly still alive.

 

[Day2]

They'd need to do some explaining on why his sister and best friend didn't know about her though, as I believe she'd have been born before Luke went into hiding.

Who says Leia and Han didn't know about her? Han may not have realized who she was, but I think Leia recognized her.

 

[Day2]

My new theory is that Kylo Ren saved her when he made his attack on the Academy and then dropped her off on Jakku but Luke, Han, Leia, etc. believed her to be killed in the attack. The one flaw in that theory probably is that Leia feels it whenever someone close to her dies and presumably, she wouldn't have felt it in this case since Rey is clearly still alive.

The flashback does seem to support your theory. Hard to believe that Luke would leave Rey with Unkar Plutt.

I wouldn't worry about that potential flaw. Leia was going through a lot in that moment.

 

[BlazeOrange]

Who says Leia and Han didn't know about her? Han may not have realized who she was, but I think Leia recognized her.

I agree that Leia recognized her - hence the complaint that she ignores Chewbacca when they return after Han's death. We haven't been given enough info as to whether or not they previously knew that she existed though - YET. There are many options/explanations available, will just have to wait and see how they choose to go with it.

 

[Alsacs]

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-how-poe-gets-off-jakku-and-how-a6800951.html

Some really good stuff answered in this article. I now think Rey could possibly be Kylo Ren's sister and Snoke is Darth Palegris.

 

[Melancer46]

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-how-poe-gets-off-jakku-and-how-a6800951.html

Some really good stuff answered in this article. I now think Rey could possibly be Kylo Ren's sister and Snoke is Darth Palegris.

I don't have the link for it now, but someone wrote a pretty convincing article as to why it wouldn't make much sense for Snoke to be Plageuis. Notably:
- Can't remember if it was one of the film writers or Serkis, but someone said that Snoke/Kylo Ren are not Sith.
- Serkis said that his character has never been mentioned in past films but did exist during the time of the events of them.
- Pointed out the differences between Snoke's philosophies and that of the Sith (notably, he believes in the Jedi concept that emotion makes you weak)
- Basically argued that based on what Snoke says in the movie and in the book, it appears that he blends the philosophies of Jedi and Sith together, and that is why Kylo Ren is his ideal apprentice: the book regards Kylo Ren as a blending of the light and the dark sides of the Force.

I think it's still possible that he IS Plageuis, but I'm hoping that's not the case, and I think I'd lean towards it not being the case.

Regarding Rey being Ren's sister, I think that too is a possibility, but the "It IS you" line doesn't really prove it one way or the other. I think the author has clarified that that particular line was in reference to her being "the Awakening" that he had felt. Even if it isn't though, that line (along with the other lines in the book where he constantly asks Rey if she really is just a random scavenger from Jakku, hinting that he suspects she is not) could point towards him knowing her previously. For example, if the theory that he saves her during one of his attacks is true, and he's the one that leaves her on Jakku (the same article I mention above tries pretty hard to discredit this theory), it could be him recognizing that she's the girl that he left on Jakku.

In terms of discrediting that theory, the article points out that if the events in the flashback are in order as they appear to be, it looks like he isn't actually saving Rey, but rather, Rey isn't there at all and he's killing someone else to get to Luke's lightsaber (and the article theorizes that Maz Kanata ends up stealing it from him somehow, which is why Kylo Ren says "That belongs to me!" later in the movie). It also points out that leaked concept drawings show Rey getting off the ship on Jakku with her two parents, which obviously contradicts the idea that Kylo Ren is the one that leaves her there.

 

[Day2]

I don't have the link for it now, but someone wrote a pretty convincing article as to why it wouldn't make much sense for Snoke to be Plageuis. Notably:
- Can't remember if it was one of the film writers or Serkis, but someone said that Snoke/Kylo Ren are not Sith.
- Serkis said that his character has never been mentioned in past films but did exist during the time of the events of them.
- Pointed out the differences between Snoke's philosophies and that of the Sith (notably, he believes in the Jedi concept that emotion makes you weak)
- Basically argued that based on what Snoke says in the movie and in the book, it appears that he blends the philosophies of Jedi and Sith together, and that is why Kylo Ren is his ideal apprentice: the book regards Kylo Ren as a blending of the light and the dark sides of the Force.

I think it's still possible that he IS Plageuis, but I'm hoping that's not the case, and I think I'd lean towards it not being the case.

Regarding Rey being Ren's sister, I think that too is a possibility, but the "It IS you" line doesn't really prove it one way or the other. I think the author has clarified that that particular line was in reference to her being "the Awakening" that he had felt. Even if it isn't though, that line (along with the other lines in the book where he constantly asks Rey if she really is just a random scavenger from Jakku, hinting that he suspects she is not) could point towards him knowing her previously. For example, if the theory that he saves her during one of his attacks is true, and he's the one that leaves her on Jakku (the same article I mention above tries pretty hard to discredit this theory), it could be him recognizing that she's the girl that he left on Jakku.

In terms of discrediting that theory, the article points out that if the events in the flashback are in order as they appear to be, it looks like he isn't actually saving Rey, but rather, Rey isn't there at all and he's killing someone else to get to Luke's lightsaber (and the article theorizes that Maz Kanata ends up stealing it from him somehow, which is why Kylo Ren says "That belongs to me!" later in the movie). It also points out that leaked concept drawings show Rey getting off the ship on Jakku with her two parents, which obviously contradicts the idea that Kylo Ren is the one that leaves her there.

I would like to read that article if you can find it.

 

[Melancer46]

I would like to read that article if you can find it.

Found it.

http://www.slashfilm.com/even-more-force-awakens-theories/3/

Look for the "Why Snoke is a New Character" part. There's a lot of different theories in this article, most of which I probably disagree with, but I found that one in particular to be pretty interesting.

 

[Day2]

Found it.

http://www.slashfilm.com/even-more-force-awakens-theories/3/

Look for the "Why Snoke is a New Character" part. There's a lot of different theories in this article, most of which I probably disagree with, but I found that one in particular to be pretty interesting.

Thanks.

 

[Conrad13]

Twitter spat between Luke and Kylo:

http://entertainment.ie/What/This-T...-is-what-the-Internet-was-made-for/374982.htm


Best line:
Very Lonely Luke @VeryLonelyLuke
You should talk, @KyloR3n I taught you to levitate rocks You dropped them all when a girl walked by Then you stormed off to write poetry.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't watch this show by a very revealing piece from EW about Star Wars Rebels and its connections to the Ep.7
http://www.ew.com/gallery/star-wars-rebels-gallery

Looks like this kid Ezra could be one of the original Knights of Ren.

 

[Ragman2000]

Rebels is great. I watch it with my almost 5 year old twins. It has universal appeal, is well written, good animation, and gripping story. Takes place before episode 4, and it's very original trilogy in feel. I look forward to it as much as my kids

 

[Alsacs]

Rebels is great. I watch it with my almost 5 year old twins. It has universal appeal, is well written, good animation, and gripping story. Takes place before episode 4, and it's very original trilogy in feel. I look forward to it as much as my kids

I watched Clone Wars years ago but not Rebels I have no clue when it is on.

I saw the trailer for season 2 of Rebels and it looked awesome it had Darth Vader, Princess Leia, Ashoka from Clone Wars, Yoda, and Darth Maul. That was pretty cool.

 

[Ragman2000]

Rebels is soooo much better than Clone Wars (even though it's the same creative team). As an adult, I found clone wars to be a real slog to get through lots of boring clunker episodes. Rebels focuses on the same primary characters and is much tighter. There are a lot of clone wars characters who return or cameo in rebels including ashoka and an elderly captain Rex.

 

[Cuseregular]

Great thread, thanks all for the fun read.

Just saw it a second time this time with texanmark and the second time around was better than the first without all the distractions of the dopey 3 d glasses, huge crowds, being too much in awe of the experience etc.

Such a great movie experience and is why you go to the movies and see something like this on the big screen being able to watch more closely for clues. The best part for this old soul was seeing the old meld with the new with Han on the Millenium again, C3PO meeting his old friend again and immediately insulting each other again, and some other moments that reminded me of what it felt like to be a 13 year old in 1977.

There's no question in my mind that when she reaches and sees Luke at the end she's seeing her father and (if you look closely) it's as he's mourning/paying respects at the the grave site of his wife and likely her mother. Look closely and it looks like a tombstone is at his feet. Going to be fascinating to see the back story of how he gets there but looking at the weathered look he presents on his face of an exhausted tortured life think it's safe to assume it's been a difficult road.

The flashback of her as a little girl on Jakku was in my her being torn away from her parents who were being taken away forecefully on that space craft. Why I have no idea and can't believe we'll have to wait 2 years to find out. One other thing noticed too that I have no idea about was why at the very end why and how C3PO had his previously red left arm now replaced back with his old gold one at the end when he was frantically and obviously waving goodbye at the end group scene.

Ahh the mysteries of this great series. Keeps ya coming back for more.

 

[upperdeck]

I am surprised at how many of my friends were not happy with the movie because it was too much of what we have seen before. i thought it was a great ride and why you go see movies with people and not just sit on the coach.

to me its like complaining about a Bond movie that doesnt do the Bond things which is why you go see those movies. You want to feel like you did when you saw it in 77 and those who were too young now know what it felt like.

It had to get the energy back from 1-2-3 and it did that in spades..