Oo my lord 73-87 since Ennis left

[SaltLakeOrange]

My point was like I said earlier...Hop was here for the first 3 years of this double digit loss streak, including 2 non-NCAA seasons.

It was the sanctions that kicked this mediocrity off, not him leaving.

Maybe with him here we would’ve come out of it sooner. Sadly we’ll never know.

But we can’t rewrite history here either.

Agreed.

 

[RF2044]

Agreed.

Then quit doing it.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Agreed.

Then quit doing it.

I’ll continue to state my opinion. Here is some history:

2015: Mark Coyle hired as AD

2015: SU announces that JB will retire in 3 years.

2016: Coyle leaves SU.

July 6, 2016: Wildhack hired

July 16, 2016: JB says he’s open to continue coaching.

March 19, 2017: Hopkins leaves

That’s the history. In that order.

 

[OrangeDW]

I’ll continue to state my opinion. Here is some history:

2015: Mark Coyle hired as AD

2015: SU announces that JB will retire in 3 years.

2016: Coyle leaves SU.

July 6, 2016: Wildhack hired

July 16, 2016: JB says he’s open to continue coaching.

March 19, 2017: Hopkins leaves

That’s the history. In that order.

So sanctions hurt us?

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

So sanctions hurt us?

Not as much as Wildhack’s silence on JB’s openness to continue coaching.

 

[Brooky03]

Sad

#

 

[Brooky03]

Not as much as Wildhack’s silence on JB’s openness to continue coaching.

Probably more

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Probably more

We can agree to disagree. We’ll just never know. Let say for now that they both sucked.

 

[721Comstock]

Not as much as Wildhack’s silence on JB’s openness to continue coaching.

You left out the part about how the NCAA slammed us, and JB’s planned retirement was part of Syracuse’s mea culpa -

But we got hammered anyway.

So, after JB got to see what not coaching felt like after the 9 game suspension -
Spoiler - he HATED IT

he decided he wouldn’t retire after all, Wildhack agreed, and Hop left for UW because he didn’t want to be the guy to force his mentor out the door.

As much as we’re all disappointed with this season, and the past few years in general, JB still hasn’t EVER had a losing season.

I’m not sure how anybody would expect JW to can JB for not winning as much as we’d like.

 

[RF2044]

You left out the part about how the NCAA slammed us, and JB’s planned retirement was part of Syracuse’s mea culpa -

But we got hammered anyway.

So, after JB got to see what not coaching felt like after the 9 game suspension -
Spoiler - he HATED IT

he decided he wouldn’t retire after all, Wildhack agreed, and Hop left for UW because he didn’t want to be the guy to force his mentor out the door.

As much as we’re all disappointed with this season, and the past few years in general, JB still hasn’t EVER had a losing season.

I’m not sure how anybody would expect JW to can JB for not winning as much as we’d like.

Anyone who doesn't think that the sanctions did exactly what the NCAA intended, and weren't intended to cripple our program, which was coming off 30-3, a final four, and 25-0 in back to back to back seasons, isn't being intellectually honest. It's goofy.

They had a massive impact, an enormous detrimental effect on multiple seasons, and significantly compromised our depth.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

You left out the part about how the NCAA slammed us, and JB’s planned retirement was part of Syracuse’s mea culpa -

But we got hammered anyway.

So, after JB got to see what not coaching felt like after the 9 game suspension -
Spoiler - he HATED IT

he decided he wouldn’t retire after all, Wildhack agreed, and Hop left for UW because he didn’t want to be the guy to force his mentor out the door.

As much as we’re all disappointed with this season, and the past few years in general, JB still hasn’t EVER had a losing season.

I’m not sure how anybody would expect JW to can JB for not winning as much as we’d like

Yep. This is the real story. Mike left for that reason. Not because he wanted to. It happened because Wildhack punted. And here we are.

As far as the sanctions...sure they hurt. But how many more years will go by before they are behind us?

 

[007]

Anyone who doesn't think that the sanctions did exactly what the NCAA intended, and weren't intended to cripple our program, which was coming off 30-3, a final four, and 25-0 in back to back to back seasons, isn't being intellectually honest. It's goofy.

They had a massive impact, an enormous detrimental effect on multiple seasons, and significantly compromised our depth.

And lowered our margin for error when we "missed" on recruits - either by whiffing completely or by recruiting guys who did not play well enough or were bad fits for what we asked them to do. The sanctions started the snowball rolling down the hill and then...it caught on fire.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Anyone who doesn't think that the sanctions did exactly what the NCAA intended, and weren't intended to cripple our program, which was coming off 30-3, a final four, and 25-0 in back to back to back seasons, isn't being intellectually honest. It's goofy.

They had a massive impact, an enormous detrimental effect on multiple seasons, and significantly compromised our depth.

You’re starting to see the effect investigations are having on Kansas and Arizona too. Louisville also lacks some talent. That’s the way it’s supposed to happen. You don’t follow the rules, you pay a price. I’m tired of hearing the sob story that SU got unduly punished. They screwed up and got punished. I’m still shocked that JB survived two sets of sanctions. The retirement plans saved him. We can blame Wildhack for letting JB off the hook when Hop left. The University should have held him to the agreement. The basketball program gained nothing by keeping JB. This will be part of Wildhack’s legacy.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

You’re starting to see the effect investigations are having on Kansas and Arizona too. Louisville also lacks some talent. That’s the way it’s supposed to happen. You don’t follow the rules, you pay a price. I’m tired of hearing the sob story that SU got unduly punished. They screwed up and got punished. I’m still shocked that JB survived two sets of sanctions. The retirement plans saved him. We can blame Wildhack for letting JB off the hook when Hop left. The University should have held him to the agreement. The basketball program gained nothing by keeping JB. This will be part of Wildhack’s legacy.

Almost Absolutely. Wildhack let JB off the hook which enabled Mike’s departure. Wildhack‘s legacy will be allowing the program to get run into the ground in order to appease a HOF coach. That and ACC television money. But that’s what will matter. Who cares about the product as long as the ACC network works.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

So, after JB got to see what not coaching felt like after the 9 game suspension -
Spoiler - he HATED IT

he decided he wouldn’t retire after all, Wildhack agreed, and Hop left for UW because he didn’t want to be the guy to force his mentor out the door.

Why did Hop interview for the USC job in 2013?

Why did Hop take the Washington job, and not any other East Coast P5 job that was available from 2014-2017?

What was happening that would make Hop want to move closer to his father?

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Why did Hop interview for the USC job in 2013?

Why did Hop take the Washington job, and not any other East Coast P5 job that was available from 2014-2017?

What was happening that would make Hop want to move closer to his father?

1) Because there is nothing wrong with interviewing for a job.

2) He took the job because Wildhack wasn‘t going to follow through on the Coyle‘s plan for an orderly transition.

3) Had 2) not happened, would he of left? Maybe. But having the AD throw him under the bus made the decision a lot less difficult. You know this as well as me.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I don’t have an issue with Hop leaving to be near his dad. Wildhack still should have kept the retirement in place. Hop has nothing to do with Wildhack not honoring the retirement set up by the chancellor.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

2) He took the job because Wildhack wasn‘t going to follow through on the Coyle‘s plan for an orderly transition.

3) Had 2) not happened, would he of left? Maybe. But having the AD throw him under the bus made the decision a lot less difficult. You know this as well as me.

Show me an article or a video where Wildhack threw Hop under the bus.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I don’t want Hop or any of the current assistants. I want to see a coach who plays aggressive and tough on both ends of the court. SU is soft and lazy and lacks intensity and discipline on the court. I’ve watched a lot of games today and our lack of toughness is severely lacking compared to other ACC teams. Other teams athleticism and strength is off the charts compared to SU. JB has had a great career and built this program, but the past seven years it has regressed to a point SU is no longer respected or relevant.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Show me an article or a video where Wildhack threw Hop under the bus.

OMG...Really?

By not stating that the Coyle plan was still his position, and that JB would be retiring as planned, Wildhack absolutely threw Mike under the bus. He put Mike in the position of being the one who forced his mentor into retirement. Maybe that‘s why he was hired? Who knows.

 

[Alsacs]

Show me an article or a video where Wildhack threw Hop under the bus.

During Hop’s last season with Syracuse was Hop being allowed to dictate recruiting targets and prospects to offer scholarships?

Hop was a good soldier who knew he was stepping into a frustrated fanbase and wasn’t controlling recruiting.
Plus he didn’t want to push out his mentor before his mentor was ready to retire.

That context matters. JB didn’t do SU a favor by deciding to reverse his a retirement. He was more than willingly to do it.
Hop got to be close to his family on the West coast as well.

Our problems now have to do with roster management and recruiting.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

During Hop’s last season with Syracuse was Hop being allowed to dictate recruiting targets and prospects to offer scholarships?

Hop was a good soldier who knew he was stepping into a frustrated fanbase and wasn’t controlling recruiting.
Plus he didn’t want to push out his mentor before his mentor was ready to retire.

That context matters. JB didn’t do SU a favor by deciding to reverse his a retirement. He was more than willingly to do it.
Hop got to be close to his family on the West coast as well.

Our problems now have to do with roster management and recruiting.

Selfish. And his new boss let it happen.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

OMG...Really?

By not stating that the Coyle plan was still his position, and that JB would be retiring as planned, Wildhack absolutely threw Mike under the bus. He put Mike in the position of being the one who forced his mentor into retirement. Maybe that‘s why he was hired? Who knows.

Show me where Wildhack said that. Link the article or the press conference.

 

[RF2044]

OMG...Really?

By not stating that the Coyle plan was still his position, and that JB would be retiring as planned, Wildhack absolutely threw Mike under the bus. He put Mike in the position of being the one who forced his mentor into retirement. Maybe that‘s why he was hired? Who knows.

What color is the sky in your world?

Comical.

But 100% false. It's a BS narrative with no basis in fact.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

During Hop’s last season with Syracuse was Hop being allowed to dictate recruiting targets and prospects to offer scholarships?

Hop was a good soldier who knew he was stepping into a frustrated fanbase and wasn’t controlling recruiting.
Plus he didn’t want to push out his mentor before his mentor was ready to retire.

That context matters. JB didn’t do SU a favor by deciding to reverse his a retirement. He was more than willingly to do it.
Hop got to be close to his family on the West coast as well.

Our problems now have to do with roster management and recruiting.

Hop wanted to start recruiting "Hop" type recruits into the program in 2016 to make the transition less severe.

JB insisted that as long as he was still the HC, we could only take "JB" type recruits until the Class of 2018, which would have been Hop's 1st freshman class as HC.

It could have been handled better.