Oshae, Tyus, Tyler Lydon and Elijah

[Bball44]

To their credit, a lot of the guys who left with eligibility remaining got degrees at some point.

 

[Scooch]

The original point was why would he leave to take a $300k per year gig in the G league. if he could have potentially gotten the same situation next year

Because that's not why he left. He left because he thought he could be an NBA draft pick (confidence!), something I imagine he's been working his ass off to achieve for years. He played 20 games in the NBA his rookie year, which is something a TON of SU guys never do (four-year player Kris Joseph says hi). Currently he's actually developing his NBA skillset in the G league as we speak.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Because that's not why he left. He left because he thought he could be an NBA draft pick (confidence!), something I imagine he's been working his ass off to achieve for years. He played 20 games in the NBA his rookie year, which is something a TON of SU guys never do (four-year player Kris Joseph says hi). Currently he's actually developing his NBA skillset in the G league as we speak.

People have a hard time wrapping their minds around the idea that based on what Brissett has already accomplished in the NBA, he is already a success.

 

[two3zone]

Who are 5 guys who’ve never been in my kitchen?

 

[dasher]

In reality we don't know if either would have been better off if they stayed. Tyler Ennis is the only one in recent memory that I can say left when his draft stock couldn't have gone any higher. CJ definitely left too late for his draft stock.

My point is in some scenarios (like Oshae) I think it wouldn't have mattered either way and he probably would have been drafted in a similar position. In those cases, why not stay and play another year unless he thought he would go higher or didn't like his situation.

Maybe, just maybe, they don't enjoy the college experience the way we think we would. Kids leave school all over the country. Why? Because that is their goal in life to play pro basketball . And maybe they can also help their families. Or, they could stay and risk getting hurt. To leave is the smart move. I love Syracuse basketball. But I have never questioned a kid leaving.

 

[Scooch]

Maybe, just maybe, they don't enjoy the college experience the way we think we would.

It may not be the glamorous ball of fun that some people think it is. These guys are up early in the morning every day to workout, then go to class, then practice, then do homework/write/study, then workout more. Yes, we've all seen ballplayers out at the bars having a good time. But it's also a life of immense pressure. For some, shedding the sham of being a "student athlete" and being able to just play ball and live, may not be the worst choice.

 

[CsonkaStash]

Maybe, just maybe, they don't enjoy the college experience the way we think we would. Kids leave school all over the country. Why? Because that is their goal in life to play pro basketball . And maybe they can also help their families. Or, they could stay and risk getting hurt. To leave is the smart move. I love Syracuse basketball. But I have never questioned a kid leaving.

I agree with you and think that the college experience may not hold as much weight as it used to for college hoops players. Thinking back to the 80s and 90s (and maybe I glorify that time period as it was the golden age of the Big East) but it seemed like the Cuse players couldn't possibly dream of being anywhere else. Even in Bleeding Orange I feel that way when Jimmy talks about it.

It seems like that Aura at the Dome, Cuse, or College Hoops in general may never come back.

 

[Bayside44]

All due respect but i think your take on this is too simplistic.
I loved being at the Cuse- best years of my life! And part of the reason why is because i was dirt poor, hanging around other students in the same boat, and we grew together to become “responsible” adults. Nothing i love more then regale my kids & grands w/ tales of my Syracuse days. They all know why i love the place.
But, as a business major- if IBM had come along my sophomore year and offered me a million $ contract, dam right i would’ve left, as would anyone else, imo.
So why wouldn’t the athletes who are showcasing their skills for free, do the same thing?
My family wasn’t rich, and i bet most of those guys were in similar or worse situations financially.
Money, fulfilling a dream, taking advantage of an opportunity, and freedom. More than enough reasons to leave, the first chance they get!

Sort of agree, but the difference is IBM likely isn't cutting you after a year, that million dollar deal would grow and compound for 30 years.

Others have posted the short term contract stuff and kids basically going bust. Whatever on that, it is what it is, but they're not really "set for life" unless they want to live off the grid with a lot of the contracts discussed.

 

[CsonkaStash]

Because that's not why he left. He left because he thought he could be an NBA draft pick (confidence!), something I imagine he's been working his ass off to achieve for years. He played 20 games in the NBA his rookie year, which is something a TON of SU guys never do (four-year player Kris Joseph says hi). Currently he's actually developing his NBA skillset in the G league as we speak.

Believe me, I played college ball and know the routine well...It was 8-9 months of the year for football with camp in early August, lifting, mandatory study periods and curfews. Even with all of that, College was amazing (so amazing I stayed for Grad School because I didnt want to leave). Everyone's experience is different I guess but the pressure at Cuse must be crazy. I don't blame him at all just wonder why more kids don't stay in college because its pretty damn fun.

 

[Briancuse]

They would have money. What is wrong with that? Do you really think that Mali or Tyler would be better off today if they stayed? You would be better off. Our teams would have been better and more enjoyable to watch. But not them. You know, kids leave school for other things all the time and no one says a word. Why is that? Marv Albert left early to work in NYC. Should he have stayed? How about Tennis and baseball players? They leave early every year. Or golfers? We only care when we feel it effects us. If you can make 7 figures, you have to go. Period.

Why do you always make it about me. I don't care about me. I would have been disappointed in Melo Waiters or Flynn if they came back. I never knew that about Marv but he's on the MT Rushmore of broadcasters so it worked out. I know nothing about tennis. As for baseball I don't know who you are referring to but plenty of guys who get drafted right out of hs fail and how many guys do you see who get drafted like in the 60th rd out of hs decide to go to college and become a first or second round pick.

 

[dollarbill44]

Reason #1, there is no reason to believe staying longer will allow you to develop to enhance your draft status, this is especially true for those borderline talents where a year 2, 3, 4 will do no more than exposing their weaknesses. Tyler Ennis made the right move. CJ Fair made the wrong move by staying too long.

Reason #2, many of them didn't exactly grow up with a silver spoon, they want to help their families sooner rather than later.

Reason #3, now more than ever, we have guys playing out of position. Lydon was playing as a 5, Marek is playing as a 5, what skills are you to develop doing that for another year?

Reason #4, and this one hasn't been mentioned yet and that is obvious, for someone to say to them "college is not going anywhere, the NBA is waiting, strike while the iron is hot, if it doesn't pan out in 5 years, you will only be 25 and you can still go back to college, by then you will have a better idea what you want anyways".

Reason #5, age. Your perspective at age 45 or 60 is different from someone at 19. Derrick Coleman said the best time of his life were his 4 years at the cuse and he wouldn't trade it for anything. That's him talking now. But if you rewind the clock back to 1987 and one and done was a thing, I bet he leaves after his freshman year after a trip to a championship game.

1. Why do you assume these players can't improve their weaknesses?
2-5: I agree with you, fully.

 

[Scooch]

Sort of agree, but the difference is IBM likely isn't cutting you after a year, that million dollar deal would grow and compound for 30 years.

Others have posted the short term contract stuff and kids basically going bust. Whatever on that, it is what it is, but they're not really "set for life" unless they want to live off the grid with a lot of the contracts discussed.

Its remarkable how a player can make a ton of money if they get drafted and stick around for just a few seasons.

Donte Green made $10 million in 4 years.
Malachi Richardson made $4.5 million in three.
Tyler Lydon made $3.5 million in three.

That's not set-for-life money. But if they manage it reasonably well, and make some contacts for future business opportunities, I suspect they're on pretty solid financial ground.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Its remarkable how a player can make a ton of money if they get drafted and stick around for just a few seasons.

Donte Green made $10 million in 4 years.
Malachi Richardson made $4.5 million in three.
Tyler Lydon made $3.5 million in three.

That's not set-for-life money. But if they manage it reasonably well, and make some contacts for future business opportunities, I suspect they're on pretty solid financial ground.

Like, in general, people screw up the frame of reference on this.

The frame of reference isn't NBA players that get multiple contracts.

The frame of reference is the other students they were at school with. That's the appropriate comparative population.

 

[Bayside44]

Its remarkable how a player can make a ton of money if they get drafted and stick around for just a few seasons.

Donte Green made $10 million in 4 years.
Malachi Richardson made $4.5 million in three.
Tyler Lydon made $3.5 million in three.

That's not set-for-life money. But if they manage it reasonably well, and make some contacts for future business opportunities, I suspect they're on pretty solid financial ground.

Agree with that part (didn't realize Donte did that well). The other guys will still need to earn a living. After Uncle Same and the agents etc it's a good running start.

FWIW John Wallace did 15 mil, big difference.

 

[FloridaFan]

Believe me, I played college ball and know the routine well...It was 8-9 months of the year for football with camp in early August, lifting, mandatory study periods and curfews. Even with all of that, College was amazing (so amazing I stayed for Grad School because I didnt want to leave). Everyone's experience is different I guess but the pressure at Cuse must be crazy. I don't blame him at all just wonder why more kids don't stay in college because its pretty damn fun.

It’s not the same as it may have been when you were there. Just a thought. Most of my friends in college have never gone to a party. It’s work, go to school. Do homework and then that’s the day minus dinner maybe

 

[Bayside44]

Like, in general, people screw up the frame of reference on this.

The frame of reference isn't NBA players that get multiple contracts.

The frame of reference is the other students they were at school with. That's the appropriate comparative population.

OK - the students they went to school with are going to start low, and ideally (or else what a waste...) earn and compound in their careers (that likely won't cap out in their mid to late 20s). And live according to their means along the way. Which is a lot different than being an NBA with ready money til you don't have it.

Again, their life, the college game I loved is long long gone and it's not Tyler Lydon's fault that it is.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

OK - the students they went to school with are going to start low, and ideally (or else what a waste...) earn and compound in their careers (that likely won't cap out in their mid to late 20s). And live according to their means along the way. Which is a lot different than being an NBA with ready money til you don't have it.

So what?

 

[Bayside44]

So what?

It was your analogy not mine.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It was your analogy not mine.

But I already said, it's not the right comparison.

 

[Scooch]

Agree with that part (didn't realize Donte did that well). The other guys will still need to earn a living. After Uncle Same and the agents etc it's a good running start.

FWIW John Wallace did 15 mil, big difference.

Wallace managed to hang around for 7 seasons, which is kind of remarkable given how he played.

Agree that they'll all need to make a living post-short NBA career. I'm assuming having a million or two in the bank, after taxes and commissions, is a nice way to enter the working world when one is 25.

 

[Bayside44]

Wallace managed to hang around for 7 seasons, which is kind of remarkable given how he played.

Agree that they'll all need to make a living post-short NBA career. I'm assuming having a million or two in the bank, after taxes and commissions, is a nice way to enter the working world when one is 25.

I gather Wallace is at the point where he just hangs out. Seen him at enough SU games. The other guys will have to get on the stick. Which is fine, good luck to them.

 

[Scooch]

I gather Wallace is at the point where he just hangs out. Seen him at enough SU games. The other guys will have to get on the stick. Which is fine, good luck to them.

I'm sure there's always a path for these guys to do well enough. They make business contacts, and can end up in some decent paying gigs. Or, they can stay in the game, do camps, coach, work for the various hoops brands, etc.

I guess I just figure that it's not like if Tyler Lydon played one more year at SU, he would have gone on to a 12 year NBA career and banked $100 million. There's a reallllly outside chance that maybe one of these guys would have gotten a 2nd contract. But that's also pretty doubtful. The NBA sorts out these guys pretty quickly. If they've been bounced from the league in 3 years, it's unlikely another year at SU would have changed that.

Three years into his NBA career, Jerami Grant's numbers didn't look good. But he stuck, and it had nothing to do with his time at SU by that point.

 

[Bayside44]

I'm sure there's always a path for these guys to do well enough. They make business contacts, and can end up in some decent paying gigs. Or, they can stay in the game, do camps, coach, work for the various hoops brands, etc.

I guess I just figure that it's not like if Tyler Lydon played one more year at SU, he would have gone on to a 12 year NBA career and banked $100 million. There's a reallllly outside chance that maybe one of these guys would have gotten a 2nd contract. But that's also pretty doubtful. The NBA sorts out these guys pretty quickly. If they've been bounced from the league in 3 years, it's unlikely another year at SU would have changed that.

Three years into his NBA career, Jerami Grant's numbers didn't look good. But he stuck, and it had nothing to do with his time at SU by that point.

Yeah, I get it. End of the day we have a lot of AAAA types. Lydon is pretty skilled, not sure what else happens to him. Malachi I think gets better and more prepared if he stuck around - I didn't gather he was ready for the NBA churn based on a 2nd half of fortunate basketball. But that's why I am not a scout but a dope on a message board.

Grant went to a team who's attempting to lose got legislated out of the game. So he bought time some of these other guys didn't get.

 

[Briancuse]

I gather Wallace is at the point where he just hangs out. Seen him at enough SU games. The other guys will have to get on the stick. Which is fine, good luck to them.

He does shows on Msg every.now and then. Not sure what else he's doing.

 

[Scooch]

Yeah, I get it. End of the day we have a lot of AAAA types. Lydon is pretty skilled, not sure what else happens to him. Malachi I think gets better and more prepared if he stuck around - I didn't gather he was ready for the NBA churn based on a 2nd half of fortunate basketball. But that's why I am not a scout but a dope on a message board.

Grant went to a team who's attempting to lose got legislated out of the game. So he bought time some of these other guys didn't get.

AAAA is right. It's well covered territory, but its kind of wild how few SU guys became NBA stars, given how successful the program has been.

Looking at Basketball Reference, the top six guys in terms of NBA games played: Melo, Schayes, Bing, DC, Sherm, Seikaly. Makes sense, all had good/great careers.

#7-#15?... Wes Johnson, Billy Owens, Louis Orr, Hakim Warrick, Jerami Grant, Dion Waiters, Etan Thomas, John Wallace, Rafeal Addison.

Woof.