Our recruiting against peers

[storange]

The fact that recruiting has taken a step backwards in year 3? That we have no impact players so far? We might get bailed out with some late signings but this is not positive momentum and suggests that perception still hasn’t really changed. I’d expect this in year 1 not 3. Sometimes it’s not being pessimistic it’s just reality. There’s every reason to be concerned.

Hasn't taken a step anywhere yet, and I believe Canadian recruits often are undervalued by The "experts" of which SU have 2.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The fact that recruiting has taken a step backwards in year 3? That we have no impact players so far? We might get bailed out with some late signings but this is not positive momentum and suggests that perception still hasn’t really changed. I’d expect this in year 1 not 3. Sometimes it’s not being pessimistic it’s just reality. There’s every reason to be concerned.

And you know this how? Counting stars. I never understand these type posts. You have no idea if any of these kids are impact players or not. Nor will you for a year or most likely 2. How many true freshman have ever been true impact players at Syracuse? It's extremely rare. It's always about developing the talent, plain and simple.

 

[orangepassion]

Don't care about stars, but do pay attention to offer lists. Very few of our guys have multiple P5 offers. Love Dino, but wonder if he should've factored in recruiting more when he had 2 open slots this offseason and the staff in general. We have very few decent recruiters on this staff. Monroe, Ferri, who else? Could use some charismatic guys with good contacts.

And you know this how? Counting stars. I never understand these type posts. You have no idea if any of these kids are impact players or not. Nor will you for a year or most likely 2. How many true freshman have ever been true impact players at Syracuse? It's extremely rare. It's always about developing the talent, plain and simple.

 

[JeremyCuse]

And you know this how? Counting stars. I never understand these type posts. You have no idea if any of these kids are impact players or not. Nor will you for a year or most likely 2. How many true freshman have ever been true impact players at Syracuse? It's extremely rare. It's always about developing the talent, plain and simple.

Good points IB, SU shouldn't have to rely on almost anyone next year to step in and play as a true frosh unless someone forces their hand a la Trill this year. That being said a couple of previous posts aren't wrong expressing concern about the class. We have the ability to look at it through orange glasses but last is still last and now that Nunn is gone there doesn't seem to be that real high end kid that Dino has grabbed against the power programs the last few years. Certainly plenty of time left and no need to panic but I think most people expected a middle of the pack ACC class right now based on what we did last year and what most people were projecting when this class first started to take shape. Its hard to argue it isn't a bit underwhelming at this point and thats probably being kind.

 

[CousCuse]

Players and parents have to feel like Babers is going to be here coaching if they commit. That is not that clear right now.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Don't care about stars, but do pay attention to offer lists. Very few of our guys have multiple P5 offers. Love Dino, but wonder if he should've factored in recruiting more when he had 2 open slots this offseason and the staff in general. We have very few decent recruiters on this staff. Monroe, Ferri, who else? Could use some charismatic guys with good contacts.

Understood. Maybe Dino has to win a few more games instead of a few more post game speeches. Maybe it's the product being sold, facilities etc. Maybe Dino has 1 foot out the door? I have no idea.

Maybe it's the loss of the big guy who is now the Kent St coach.

All that being said, Syracuse recruiting is what it is. I don't care who your head coach or assistants are. It's never going to wow people from a star or offer lists. It's damn tough to recruit here and as I have said 1000 times I don't ever see it being great. From watching games, I think Dino has definitely upgraded talent in some areas, maybe not in others. Coaches will come and go but from my POV recruiting always seems to pretty much remain average or slightly below from stars and offers.

Can you coach them up is all that matters. That's it. Dino's S&C program seems to be really solid and probably way that coach plays such a huge role in the program

 

[CousCuse]

Understood. Maybe Dino has to win a few more games instead of a few more post game speeches. Maybe it's the product being sold, facilities etc. Maybe Dino has 1 foot out the door? I have no idea.

Maybe it's the loss of the big guy who is now the Kent St coach.

All that being said, Syracuse recruiting is what it is. I don't care who your head coach or assistants are. It's never going to wow people from a star or offer lists. It's damn tough to recruit here and as I have said 1000 times I don't ever see it being great. From watching games, I think Dino has definitely upgraded talent in some areas, maybe not in others. Coaches will come and go but from my POV recruiting always seems to pretty much remain average or slightly below from stars and offers.

Can you coach them up is all that matters. That's it. Dino's S&C program seems to be really solid and probably way that coach plays such a huge role in the program

Since PP era no coach has been here long enough to become viewed as an entrenched recruiting destination coach. When PP was here he was viewed that way and he was getting great recruits and classes. No one can definitively say that how long Dino is going to be here and that is the major issue.

 

[storange]

Understood. Maybe Dino has to win a few more games instead of a few more post game speeches. Maybe it's the product being sold, facilities etc. Maybe Dino has 1 foot out the door? I have no idea.

Maybe it's the loss of the big guy who is now the Kent St coach.

All that being said, Syracuse recruiting is what it is. I don't care who your head coach or assistants are. It's never going to wow people from a star or offer lists. It's damn tough to recruit here and as I have said 1000 times I don't ever see it being great. From watching games, I think Dino has definitely upgraded talent in some areas, maybe not in others. Coaches will come and go but from my POV recruiting always seems to pretty much remain average or slightly below from stars and offers.

Can you coach them up is all that matters. That's it. Dino's S&C program seems to be really solid and probably way that coach plays such a huge role in the program

Dino also has a stud RB and a stud WR in his pocket. They won't be added to any recruiting rankings.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Yes we are being picky and I’m fine with it

we are also taking a small class this year

That's a board narrative that doesn't really have any groundings in reality. We have 82 players on scholarship at the moment with 12 players out of eligibility. Factor in the inevitable transfers, and you're looking at 18 or 19 spots open.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Since PP era no coach has been here long enough to become viewed as an entrenched recruiting destination coach. When PP was here he was viewed that way and he was getting great recruits and classes. No one can definitively say that how long Dino is going to be here and that is the major issue.

Good point. P's last few classes had some top end talent but lacked depth. Marrone seemed to lack top end talent but recruited pretty solid from 1-25. I think the last class that Marrone had put together before he took off was going to be by far his best.

My whole point is, you still see a lot of Shafer recruits playing as seniors and that is my point, the older kids are just usually bigger, stronger and been at this level that much longer. Our best CB is a Shafer recruit. QB, WR, top two at RB shafer recruits. Never replaced the linebackers, etc. I don't see this as any different than any other coach. Marrone played with GROB's guys as well. Nassib, Sales, Lemon, Pugh and the TE were the focus of that 2012 offense all GROB guys

 

[SmilinBob]

I guess the question may be...how many guys out there are available and out of those that SU is going after, is SU in the top 3 on their list? I could see 2 to 5 very good players saying yes on that list by December and filling up the rest in February along with tranfers and maybe JC's.

 

[CousCuse]

Good point. P's last few classes had some top end talent but lacked depth. Marrone seemed to lack top end talent but recruited pretty solid from 1-25. I think the last class that Marrone had put together before he took off was going to be by far his best.

My whole point is, you still see a lot of Shafer recruits playing as seniors and that is my point, the older kids are just usually bigger, stronger and been at this level that much longer. Our best CB is a Shafer recruit. QB, WR, top two at RB shafer recruits. Never replaced the linebackers, etc. I don't see this as any different than any other coach. Marrone played with GROB's guys as well. Nassib, Sales, Lemon, Pugh and the TE were the focus of that 2012 offense all GROB guys

Without a doubt, coaching staff stability is at the top of the list for recruits. And that's why if Dino were to leave, I think they should make Macky the head coach and give him all the support possible. He is a capable and intelligent person with a lot of coaching experience and background and he will never leave. Like Fitz at Northwestern.

 

[upperdeck]

what exactly are we comparing here?

choose 2 schools like Pitt/BC and use a service like ESPN

we have 11 pitt 17 bc 16

BC has 7 of 16 guys 78 or above so almost 50%
Pitt has 4 of 17 or 25%
su has 3 or 11 or 25% but our 2 transfers dont count and would be there 2.

i would say BC is doing better, pitt is pretty equal but has more players.

Burnett is killing it in PA yet not that highly ranked?

we had 7 kids 78 or above last year, harris is the only one seeing the field and he looks solid

thee offense will take care of itself if the oline is solid.. i do wonder when we get a few better ath on D, but those are the kids we havent played much a Fr or R-fr.

 

[PhatOrange]

The fact that recruiting has taken a step backwards in year 3? That we have no impact players so far? We might get bailed out with some late signings but this is not positive momentum and suggests that perception still hasn’t really changed. I’d expect this in year 1 not 3. Sometimes it’s not being pessimistic it’s just reality. There’s every reason to be concerned.

step backwards says who?

no impact players says who?

 

[PhatOrange]

We have the ability to look at it through orange glasses but last is still last and now that Nunn is gone there doesn't seem to be that real high end kid that Dino has grabbed against the power programs the last few years.

The highest end player looks like the WR from Pennsylvania and a high end play making WR is exactly what we need.

I love the glitz and glamour that Nunn brought to the table but at the end of the day I could care less about it, the team doesn't need a high end defensive back. It needs to get the offense humming.

 

[CousCuse]

what exactly are we comparing here?

choose 2 schools like Pitt/BC and use a service like ESPN

we have 11 pitt 17 bc 16

BC has 7 of 16 guys 78 or above so almost 50%
Pitt has 4 of 17 or 25%
su has 3 or 11 or 25% but our 2 transfers dont count and would be there 2.

i would say BC is doing better, pitt is pretty equal but has more players.

Burnett is killing it in PA yet not that highly ranked?

we had 7 kids 78 or above last year, harris is the only one seeing the field and he looks solid

thee offense will take care of itself if the oline is solid.. i do wonder when we get a few better ath on D, but those are the kids we havent played much a Fr or R-fr.

To extrapolate that out. Adazzio has been at BC the longest and looks very stable. Narduzzi the second longest and Dino third and the least stable. Kind of simple really.

 

[orangepassion]

You're not serious about Macky, are you? He is totally unqualified at this point. And who says he wouldn't leave? His Dad left.

Without a doubt, coaching staff stability is at the top of the list for recruits. And that's why if Dino were to leave, I think they should make Macky the head coach and give him all the support possible. He is a capable and intelligent person with a lot of coaching experience and background and he will never leave. Like Fitz at Northwestern.

 

[CousCuse]

You're not serious about Macky, are you? He is totally unqualified at this point. And who says he wouldn't leave? His Dad left.

100%. That was his grand father. He won't leave, he would be the football equivalent of Boeheim.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You're not serious about Macky, are you? He is totally unqualified at this point. And who says he wouldn't leave? His Dad left.

To me Macky is at a minimum about 5-6 years away but I have zero doubt he will be the head coach at Syracuse someday and I also think he will be the coach here for a long time. I think he is a smart, hardworking guy who wants to be the head coach at Syracuse one day and I just think he will get the job once he's qualified. He will get there and figure out how to stay here a long time.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Dino also has a stud RB and a stud WR in his pocket. They won't be added to any recruiting rankings.

I count them as part of last year's haul.

Prior to this year, Dino's ability to pilfer the transfer and JUCO ranks is what gave me hope that such success would trickle down to the traditional high school market... but it just hasn't materialized yet. I don't care about star ratings either, but generally the ratings will be respectable if they have multiple P5 offers. Dino has a magnetic personality and has an easy sales pitch for his offense. Something is amiss. Rumors will start floating if he can't get this class turned around. Remember Hop's last year before Washington called?

To those who think we can't land top 25 classes -- PP managed to do this in the 90s. It's not unprecedented to get there and it's more attainable than some think.

 

[CousCuse]

To me Macky is at a minimum about 5-6 years away but I have zero doubt he will be the head coach at Syracuse someday and I also think he will be the coach here for a long time. I think he is a smart, hardworking guy who wants to be the head coach at Syracuse one day and I just think he will get the job once he's qualified. He will get there and figure out how to stay here a long time.

Why wait? What is there to lose but more staff transitions that cause problems by themselves. He would get a lower starting salary and put the rest and more into his staff. He's ready enough.

 

[qdawgg]

I would think the biggest selling point for young defenders is that you can play a major role from Day 1. My hope is early PT trumps some of our other recruiting shortcomings.

People talk about this every single year. If this really was a big selling point to H.S. kids, we'd have improved our recruiting every year for the last 10 years.

The other false selling point so far is the offense, "what player wouldn't want to play in DB's offense". Well if that was really a selling point, kids would be busting the doors down to come here and they aren't.

 

[orangepassion]

Why wait? What is there to lose but more staff transitions that cause problems by themselves. He would get a lower starting salary and put the rest and more into his staff. He's ready enough.

He's a 1st year RB coach at Kent State. What qualifies him for the job at this point other than his last name? He might be good down the road, but right now, he has very little on the resume.

 

[CousCuse]

He's a 1st year RB coach at Kent State. What qualifies him for the job at this point other than his last name? He might be good down the road, but right now, he has very little on the resume.

He played and was coached by Marrone and Hacket. He coached under Skipp Holtz. He has coach under Dino and in his system on offense for 3 tears now. He had endless discussions with Mac about football. He was an honors student at SU. He knows many coaches in the Babers tree and will keep the offense in place.

 

[PhatOrange]

To extrapolate that out. Adazzio has been at BC the longest and looks very stable. Narduzzi the second longest and Dino third and the least stable. Kind of simple really.

least stable only to those of you who hear voices in their heads.