Outdoor Stadium

[OrangeMon]

I used to be a ball boy for SU back in Archbold during the '70s. On cold, wet, snowy days it SUCKED. Most times the field was a hard mud. Not fun. No, I think I keep my Dome where I'm warm and dry, although I have to admit the A/C now is TOO cold for me.

 

[tbonezone]

ever wonder why you don't see convertibles driving around syracuse top down in nov/dec ?


there's your answer.

 

[Franz69]

 

[sutomcat]

Ok, lets give the OP a break for this suggestion. Fans of elder past can say they've been to an outdoor game in the Cuse, and I trust when they say it sucks. Hell, the JMA Wireless Dome has it sucky moments as well, ie; "wireless"

I get that the Bills play outdoors, and do well, but they're a pro team, with pro money. SU doesn't have that type of coin. So when you crawl back into your cave, have another drink. Hell this weather makes me want to grab a hot toddy myself!!

I am unfortunately old enough to have attended a number of games at Archbold, all in my teens.

The first one I attended was a beautiful fall game. It was sunny, it was warm, it was wonderful. I suspect if I had chosen one of the games I later attended, I might not have become a die hard fan.

One of the next games I attended, the weather was not as nice. It was a cold overcast day. It poured the whole game. Archbold may or may not have been engineered to drain heavy rains away from spectators. Since it was one of the first true football stadiums, I doubt this was a consideration. If there were provisions to steer the water to places avoid from where the fans sat, they had apparently decayed or been removed.

What I do know is by 1972, when it rained at a game at Archbold, the water formed rivers that ran from the top of the stadium to the track below. My seat was in the middle of a river of really cold water that rode through the buttock area of my pants and made me question why I wanted to live. Some of it went down my pant legs and streamed into my shoes as frigid tributaries.

Eventually some fans not far from me got disgusted and left and I moved over a few seats. And shivered uncontrollably the rest of the game.

Another game at Archbold was played late in the season,. It started to snow out of nowhere, like we see in CNY all the time in the winter. And it kept snowing.

The game was close and I was wrapped up in it when I finally moved a bit. Big crushing sound as a large amount of snow and ice that had formed on my lap and my coat broke off and fell to the ground. That day was the first time I experienced ice forming on my eyebrows. That was disturbing and my and my friends had a good laugh looking at each other with our new looks. Then the snowflakes started freezing after landing our our eye lashes. That is pretty scary when that happens to you.

Anyway, my memories of watching football outdoors in Syracuse are not so great. I can live with watching games in a dome a while longer.

 

[bt4421]

I was an adolescent during the Maloney years. My mother dropped me off at the steps in front of the Hall of Languages and pick me up 4 hours later or so. ( Yea I was a strange kid ) I attended every game for a few years by myself. When the weather got crappy we probably had 8-15 k in the place ( except for PSU ). Capacity was about 26 I believe without the track bleachers. A dome was the smartest thing SU ever did for its athletic program.

I was at a couple cold games there. 10k in Archibold for a cold non PS game sitting on cold concrete or standing the whole game because you didn't want your seat to suck out any warmth you still had in in your body. Not bad. Now why don't folks here think we could get 30k for non eleite opponents in a modern more welcoming outdoor stadium with cozy seats?

 

[007]

Let's take the single most iconic, instantly recognizable representation of the SU brand and replace it with an outdoor stadium...

 

[storange]

I was at a couple cold games there. 10k in Archibold for a cold non PS game sitting on cold concrete or standing the whole game because you didn't want your seat to suck out any warmth you still had in in your body. Not bad. Now why don't folks here think we could get 30k for non eleite opponents in a modern more welcoming outdoor stadium with cozy seats?

Maybe we could, but is it the smart thing to do, I think not, and of course you have every right to bring up an outdoor stadium, others have before.

 

[bt4421]

Let's take the single most iconic, instantly recognizable representation of the SU brand and replace it with an outdoor stadium...

Yeah. Change is never a good idea. After all over the past 20 years the dome definitely seems to be working well for recruiting and overall program succes.

 

[bt4421]

Maybe we could, but is it the smart thing to do, I think not, and of course you have every right to bring up an outdoor stadium, others have before.

Thanks ST. Good to know I'm not the only insane human in the fanbase for even mentioning the thought and personal preference for being outdoors.

 

[Cusefan78]

Clearly you didn't attend last night's outdoor soccer game.

If we had a home football game this weekend, we'd be facing a high of 41 degrees with 10 mph winds.

We used to have an outdoor stadium with grass. It would be mud by October, and they would have to paint the bare ground green in November.

And I'm NOT sitting outside to watch LAX in February.

That was 40 years ago. Stadiums now have drainage and overhangs. There has been amazing upgrades to rain gear as well jackets in that time. I heard the stories of water running down the concrete at arch but that stadium was a relic. Green Bay is outdoors, michigans, psu… an outdoor stadium in Syracuse for football would have been amazing

 

[OburgOrange]

Sounds like we're in good company with a small hand full of FCS programs.

Our water level

 

[Cusefan95]

I was thinking in terms of a football exclusive stadium keeping the dome as multi use facility. I thought that I recalled a discussion on this forum years ago regarding this topic and that Skytop was a possibility. I'm probably wrong and will get blasted again for bringing this up. That's OK. Maybe my brain doesn't work as well as others in this regard as was suggested. The answers are definitely above my pay grade. But as anything else, there needs to be vision and the right people to make things happen. However, if im an idiot for even suggesting this, then obviously there is nothing here and we need to burn this thread

If we have two facilities to maintain where we used to only have one, that would be a huge ongoing cost issue beyond the initial building costs. Its not a terrible suggestion - its just not a viable one.

What's more likely - and may become a necessity (if the "Ban artificial turf" push gains more momentum) is somehow installing a grass field indoors. Although it would also drive up maintenance costs, there's been a lot of effort in that area - at some point the installation and maintenance costs may work out. Syracuse would probably be a late adopter though, partly because we'd need economies of scale to start driving costs down...mostly because we would have challenges that no other facility would have (like how to cover a grass field and set up basketball without damaging the grass).

 

[Cusefan95]

That was 40 years ago. Stadiums now have drainage and overhangs. There has been amazing upgrades to rain gear as well jackets in that time. I heard the stories of water running down the concrete at arch but that stadium was a relic. Green Bay is outdoors, michigans, psu… an outdoor stadium in Syracuse for football would have been amazing

I've been to games at both Green Bay and Penn State in the cold - it is a miserable experience. Its a big part of why Lambeau now has a massive indoor building attached to the stadium - I've gone when probably a quarter of the crowd was watching at the indoor restaurant areas because it was too cold to be outside. I don't know for sure but suspect indoor "warm-up" areas will be part of the Beaver Stadium upgrades as well. It looks like it in early renderings at least.

No idea why they didn't do that with MetLife, or if Buffalo is going to build large indoor areas attached to the new stadium - but if they aren't its a huge oversight. In 2023, an outdoor stadium in Syracuse could be amazing if they build it like Lambeau is currently - if all you can do is freeze to death in outside seating until the game is over, it would be a gigantic fiasco.

 

[bt4421]

If we have two facilities to maintain where we used to only have one, that would be a huge ongoing cost issue beyond the initial building costs. Its not a terrible suggestion - its just not a viable one.

What's more likely - and may become a necessity (if the "Ban artificial turf" push gains more momentum) is somehow installing a grass field indoors. Although it would also drive up maintenance costs, there's been a lot of effort in that area - at some point the installation and maintenance costs may work out. Syracuse would probably be a late adopter though, partly because we'd need economies of scale to start driving costs down...mostly because we would have challenges that no other facility would have (like how to cover a grass field and set up basketball without damaging the grass).

In a nutshell, how many ongoing dollars come from naming rights to support maintenance? Also, the increased payback to the program cannot go unstated. Welcome to Syracuse University, home of the JMA Wireless Dome Jim Boeheim Court and Micron Stadium Ernie Davis Field.

 

[bt4421]

I've been to games at both Green Bay and Penn State in the cold - it is a miserable experience. Its a big part of why Lambeau now has a massive indoor building attached to the stadium - I've gone when probably a quarter of the crowd was watching at the indoor restaurant areas because it was too cold to be outside. I don't know for sure but suspect indoor "warm-up" areas will be part of the Beaver Stadium upgrades as well. It looks like it in early renderings at least.

No idea why they didn't do that with MetLife, or if Buffalo is going to build large indoor areas attached to the new stadium - but if they aren't its a huge oversight. In 2023, an outdoor stadium in Syracuse could be amazing if they build it like Lambeau is currently - if all you can do is freeze to death in outside seating until the game is over, it would be a gigantic fiasco.

Of course NFL teams need to play much later well into winter. Would be kind of neat if someone researched game day weather for Syracuse games over the past say 10 years.

 

[JRHEETER]

Of course NFL teams need to play much later well into winter. Would be kind of neat if someone researched game day weather for Syracuse games over the past say 10 years.

Retractable roof would be the only way to go







This whole conversation is useless anyway tho lol

 

[Cusefan95]

In a nutshell, how many ongoing dollars come from naming rights to support maintenance? Also, the increased payback to the program cannot go unstated. Welcome to Syracuse University, home of the JMA Wireless Dome Jim Boeheim Court and Micron Stadium Ernie Davis Field.

Right now, JMA gets mentioned for both Syracuse football and basketball game telecasts. In your plan, it would only get that for basketball (and lax, but that audience is very small relative to the other two sports nationally). You are assuming the naming rights of the current stadium would maintain full value if football wasn't played there, AND the new football stadium rights would be as valuable as what JMA pays now - or at least the total package would offset additional maintenance and financing costs for a new stadium.

I have no idea if any of the assumptions being made above are valid - I do know I wouldn't just assume them to be true. I also recall one of the issues with a new stadium for football at South Campus was the Dome couldn't be justified if football wasn't being played there, which indicates Syracuse was not comfortable with your assumptions.

 

[Cuse181]

Did you ever go to an outdoor football game at Syracuse? I did. It was awful. I mean, worse than you can imagine. After the 4th or 5th game, no one would go.

The dome isnt there by accident…

 

[Cusefan95]

Of course NFL teams need to play much later well into winter. Would be kind of neat if someone researched game day weather for Syracuse games over the past say 10 years.

NFL teams also have much larger fanbases, which means they can do things which might discourage large segments of their fanbase from attending -but still get the stadium to sell out.

And even with that, its not a guarantee - I went to the Green Bay-San Francisco playoff game in subzero temperatures in 2014. Part of why I went was because the game wasn't a sellout, and it was easy to get a cheap ticket. For a playoff game. In Green Bay.

Now lets think about how a game in bad weather against Wake Forest in November is going to do in Syracuse - and you'll start to recognize why the appetite for an outdoor stadium in Syracuse is so low.

 

[DoubleDee]

A quick look online lead me to the syracuse athletics page claiming Manley held 9500. It would take 3+ games there at max capacity to fill any one of our largest crowds at the Dome. It has done remarkable.

 

[bt4421]

Of course NFL teams need to play much later well into winter. Would be kind of neat if someone researched game day weather for Syracuse games over the past say 10 years.

So... I did just last year. Here is the weather for our seven games. Partly sunny 80, partly sunny 75, partly sunny 53, partly sunny 68, partly sunny 60, sunny 63, and cloudy 53. That's rough... Granted this may have been one of the better, but as was stated, the weather is warmer now than in the past, and stadiums are not like Archibold in so many ways. But human nature requires that we recall the worst weather games in history in perhaps the worst stadium in major college football at time and not the 90% glorious autumn days. I can't help but think that fans from opposing cold weather schools would have a blast with some of the comments on here and have fun posting them.

 

[KaiserUEO]

bt4421, before you had the time to post here...you were head of advertising for Bud Light werent you??...

 

[bt4421]

bt4421, before you had the time to post here...you were head of advertising for Bud Light werent you??...

Ouch. Personal foul for unnecessary roughness. I feel like the SU Football program, the hits just keep coming...

 

[OburgOrange]

Ouch. Personal foul for unnecessary roughness. I feel like the SU Football program, the hits just keep coming...

Ignore him. He’s the board troll

 

[ClkWrkOrange]

Anyone who regularly attended outdoor games here loves having the dome. Spent many a game having to stand the whole time because the option was sitting in a puddle on freezing cold concrete. No thanks.