Post moves?

[orangeinnyc]

Im curious if anyone with inside info might be able to shed light on some few questions i have. I don't mean this sarcastically I'm very intrigued, I was wondering what post moves our coaches are teaching our bigs? Idk if anyone has attended practice before or knows what our coaches are trying to teach in the low block but I'm curious to know. I think our bigs, brisset, moyer and chukwu in particular would be much tougher to guard and would be able to score an additional 8-10 points a game if they had a baby hook in their arsenal. I don't recall seeing anyone utilize this move outside of Rak and coleman a few times. I also noticed our bigs don't have great footwork, not too many up and unders, drop steps etc, i was watching WVU play and their big man Konate had a few wonderful moves near the hoop and i cant recall seeing much from our bigs. This is one beef i have with the coaching staff, albeit we don't have a ton of low post talent so idk how effective it would be but id love to know more about our coaching techniques and what we are working on. Like i said i think if brisset had a baby hook he would be able to convert at a higher percentage since he is always double clutching or jumping into a defender and making around the rim shots much tougher.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Im curious if anyone with inside info might be able to shed light on some few questions i have. I don't mean this sarcastically I'm very intrigued, I was wondering what post moves our coaches are teaching our bigs? Idk if anyone has attended practice before or knows what our coaches are trying to teach in the low block but I'm curious to know. I think our bigs, brisset, moyer and chukwu in particular would be much tougher to guard and would be able to score an additional 8-10 points a game if they had a baby hook in their arsenal. I don't recall seeing anyone utilize this move outside of Rak and coleman a few times. I also noticed our bigs don't have great footwork, not too many up and unders, drop steps etc, i was watching WVU play and their big man Konate had a few wonderful moves near the hoop and i cant recall seeing much from our bigs. This is one beef i have with the coaching staff, albeit we don't have a ton of low post talent so idk how effective it would be but id love to know more about our coaching techniques and what we are working on. Like i said i think if brisset had a baby hook he would be able to convert at a higher percentage since he is always double clutching or jumping into a defender and making around the rim shots much tougher.

I think both PC and OB need more time, more game action and both will get to that promised land. I agree both could use improvement around the basket, but they are also both still freshman in terms of experience. OB just gets big boyed all the time, that will happen on a little jump hook too until he gets stronger and learns to use leverage through contact. Both Etan Thomas and Rakeem Christmas developed nice little jump hooks with either hand while in school. Rakeem had the most development of any big man I have ever seen through his senior year, and he was unstoppable on a bad team going either way with the ball. That was obviously drilled into him for 4 years, and the jump hook is probably the easiest back to the basket post move to teach. The Mikan drill is all any of them should really need to become offensive threats when the ball is dumped down. I don't know that anyone is being taught a sky hook anymore, Patrick Ewing might have been the last one to use it regularly. Other than the jump hook, a turn around jumper and an up and under as you say, that should give a center like Chewy all he needs to contribute a few double doubles over his career.

 

[orangeinnyc]

I think both PC and OB need more time, more game action and both will get to that promised land. I agree both could use improvement around the basket, but they are also both still freshman in terms of experience. OB just gets big boyed all the time, that will happen on a little jump hook too until he gets stronger and learns to use leverage through contact. Both Etan Thomas and Rakeem Christmas developed nice little jump hooks with either hand while in school. Rakeem had the most development of any big man I have ever seen through his senior year, and he was unstoppable on a bad team going either way with the ball. That was obviously drilled into him for 4 years, and the jump hook is probably the easiest back to the basket post move to teach. The Mikan drill is all any of them should really need to become offensive threats when the ball is dumped down. I don't know that anyone is being taught a sky hook anymore, Patrick Ewing might have been the last one to use it regularly. Other than the jump hook, a turn around jumper and an up and under as you say, that should give a center like Chewy all he needs to contribute a few double doubles over his career.

Thanks for the detailed response, i know they are freshman so they'll develop over time but with brissets quick elevation i think the hook would do wonders for his game, i saw at least three opportunities of him to utilize this shot but instead he pumped and jumped to the side of the defender once, pumped and jumped into he defender another time so i think it would be real beneficial if we really try to implement this

Senior year rak was a beast, i think he is the best low post player we have had here in awhile, jackson and onaku were also adept in the low block so I'm wondering if bernie fine is the difference maker. Honest question, do you think us not having a true big man coach has held back our big men?

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Thanks for the detailed response, i know they are freshman so they'll develop over time but with brissets quick elevation i think the hook would do wonders for his game, i saw at least three opportunities of him to utilize this shot but instead he pumped and jumped to the side of the defender once, pumped and jumped into he defender another time so i think it would be real beneficial if we really try to implement this

I am sure he is practicing those little baby hooks around the basket, and he will learn to use them effectively. But I am not sure it will be so effective against another big man. He is a 3, a slasher who get most of his points driving to the basket, and less from back to the basket moves. Now if he can take advantage of switching defenses and finds himself on a smaller guard, then he should be able to just turn and shoot over them, and won't even need a hook shot. But thinking of the other 3s in this system, CJ, Demetris, Wesley, Rafael, Andrew White, none of them were of the dump it into the block variety. Those post up moves you're mentioning are more suited to Chewy and Sid I think. If OB can develop Sid's strength and ability to finish, that is when he becomes all league in my opinion. He definitely needs to get rid of that pump fake, that is only benefiting the shot blockers swatting away his weak sauce.

 

[orangeinnyc]

I am sure he is practicing those little baby hooks around the basket, and he will learn to use them effectively. But I am not sure it will be so effective against another big man. He is a 3, a slasher who get most of his points driving to the basket, and less from back to the basket moves. Now if he can take advantage of switching defenses and finds himself on a smaller guard, then he should be able to just turn and shoot over them, and won't even need a hook shot. But thinking of the other 3s in this system, CJ, Demetris, Wesley, Rafael, Andrew White, none of them were of the dump it into the block variety. Those post up moves you're mentioning are more suited to Chewy and Sid I think. If OB can develop Sid's strength and ability to finish, that is when he becomes all league in my opinion. He definitely needs to get rid of that pump fake, that is only benefiting the shot blockers swatting away his weak sauce.

i can agree with that. I think he gets the ball around the basket a lot so i don't view it as a traditional back to the basket move where he works for position, i just think when he's driving and he comes to a jump stop or off his spin move maybe turning back over his shoulder for the hook would be beneficial, but i see what your saying i included him because i feel that his touch around the basket is below average, chukwu has done it a few times but he just doesn't look very natural or comfortable doing it, moyer on that horrific crab dribble turnover in the 2nd half the perfect opportunity after picking up his dribble to just turn over his left shoulder for a 5 ft baby hook but instead forced a pass to chukwu n turned it over

 

[br801]

See this thread for some insight into a typical SU practice, particularly RF2044's detailed post.

Practice- what is the general structure?

 

[MikeDamone]

The only big we've had with any oost moves since Bernie left is Rak and even he played under Bernie for half a season. It's a problem

 

[longislandcuse]

How hard can it be to teach a post player to power dribble, drop step and baby hook with their strong hand? That alone would be a 100% improvement over what our bigs do lately.

 

[721Comstock]

How hard can it be to teach a post player to NOT power dribble, just drop step and baby hook with their strong hand? That alone would be a 100% improvement over what our bigs do lately.

FIFY.
Bringing the ball down/dribbling is where our bigs constantly get the ball stolen.
See: pretty much every time DC2 used to get the ball in the post, and now with PC.

Post moves? related:

 

[orangeinnyc]

I’ve noticed watching UNC they are great at teaching their guys this. They develop big men very well, maybe the best in NCAA.

 

[pfister1]

Hard to know whether we've been teaching PC any post moves. You have to be able to catch the ball and hold onto it without getting pushed out of the lane before you can actually try to make a post move in a game. Baby steps fellas.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Hard to know whether we've been teaching PC any post moves. You have to be able to catch the ball and hold onto it without getting pushed out of the lane before you can actually try to make a post move in a game. Baby steps fellas.

Thank you. I'm biting my tongue with the rest of this thread.

Regarding OB, how excited was everyone when he got the ball low, took a dribble or two to get around the Louisville defender and then dunked with authority! That was fantastic, and I hope a glimpse of things to come.

 

[rrlbees]

I don’t thunk Chukwu will ever develop real low post moves. He’s almost too “gangly” and not naturally coordinated. But I think Sid has a lot of potential to develop them. He’s had a few nice moves inside this year but has been seriously held back with the knee issues and being able to get on the court consistently.

 

[OrangeDW]

The only big we've had with any oost moves since Bernie left is Rak and even he played under Bernie for half a season. It's a problem

Christmas didn’t really have any moves until his junior and especially senior year. Same with older past guys like Seikaly, Etan, Otis, Watkins, etc. It usually takes time if they come in raw- which almost all our big guys do.

That said, which big guys have we even had that were here as 4 year guys since Christmas? Coleman is the only big guy I can think of that we’ve graduated since Christmas, and he was looking better as a junior but then was wrecked by injuries again as a senior.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don’t thunk Chukwu will ever develop real low post moves. He’s almost too “gangly” and not naturally coordinated. But I think Sid has a lot of potential to develop them. He’s had a few nice moves inside this year but has been seriously held back with the knee issues and being able to get on the court consistently.

Agreed. Sidibe has definitely shown some moves, but sometimes travels. That will go away.

And yeah, it’s hard for a guy that gangly to post. Just look at Porzingis on the Knicks. 7’3 and he pretty much sucks in the low post(great player though). Too gangly/lacks lower body strength.

I’m good with Chukwu’s development regardless of if he can or can’t post up. If he can make a similar leap as a player next year, and Sidibe gets healthy, we’ll be strong at C.

 

[br801]

Thank you. I'm biting my tongue with the rest of this thread.

Regarding OB, how excited was everyone when he got the ball low, took a dribble or two to get around the Louisville defender and then dunked with authority! That was fantastic, and I hope a glimpse of things to come.

I bit my tongue right off.

 

[FrancoPizza]

FIFY.
Bringing the ball down/dribbling is where our bigs constantly get the ball stolen.
See: pretty much every time DC2 used to get the ball in the post, and now with PC.

Post moves? related:

I love Seinfeld, but am I the only one that doesn't understand how getting an erection is remotely related to this?

 

[MikeDamone]

Christmas didn’t really have any moves until his junior and especially senior year. Same with older past guys like Seikaly, Etan, Otis, Watkins, etc. It usually takes time if they come in raw- which almost all our big guys do.

That said, which big guys have we even had that were here as 4 year guys since Christmas? Coleman is the only big guy I can think of that we’ve graduated since Christmas, and he was looking better as a junior but then was wrecked by injuries again as a senior.

Not all 4 year guys, but DC2, Lydon, Pascal

 

[oli44]

Arinze had some post moves.

I think it's a lost art in general. Not just at Syracuse.

 

[RF2044]

Arinze had some post moves.

I think it's a lost art in general. Not just at Syracuse.

Agree 100%. We're in an era where big guys aren't restricted to the paint anymore -- many [most?] of them now grow up hoisting up three pointers and attempting to handle the ball on the perimeter. Playing with your back to the basket is becoming a lost art. It's more than just scoring inside. Safe to say that players like Brissett [who kind of is our de factor "PF" despite starting at the 3, has no post moves.

Beyond that, some players don't have the physical tools. I can't envision Chukwu ever being heavy / bulky enough to maintain position on the block, so it is going to be hard for him to establish position to present himself as a target inside. His scoring is going to come off of offensive rebounds and defensive lapses where they hit him with a lob and he's uncovered.

There aren't too many traditional centers anymore. Heck, even a big guy who had the girth to excel in the low post like Fab Melo had no idea how to score in the paint, and was more of a 10 foot jumpshooter.

 

[cuse10]

The program should have reached out to Derrick Coleman as a consultant years ago.

 

[Sherman20]

Thanks for the detailed response, i know they are freshman so they'll develop over time but with brissets quick elevation i think the hook would do wonders for his game, i saw at least three opportunities of him to utilize this shot but instead he pumped and jumped to the side of the defender once, pumped and jumped into he defender another time so i think it would be real beneficial if we really try to implement this

Senior year rak was a beast, i think he is the best low post player we have had here in awhile, jackson and onaku were also adept in the low block so I'm wondering if bernie fine is the difference maker. Honest question, do you think us not having a true big man coach has held back our big men?

Arinze might have been even better than Rak. But we had a lot of offensive weapons on the team his junior and senior years, so we didn’t go to him as much as we should have. Rick Jackson was really good, too, his junior and senior years once he got in shape. But he came in from HS with some decent footwork fundamentals and an ability to operate on the low block.

 

[MSOrange]

Arinze might have been even better than Rak. But we had a lot of offensive weapons on the team his junior and senior years, so we didn’t go to him as much.

Agreed. I think Arinze was a lot better than he is often given credit for, except for free throws. As you said, just had a lot of options on those teams.

 

[Sherman20]

Agreed. I think Arinze was a lot better than he is often given credit for, except for free throws. As you said, just had a lot of options on those teams.

I remember a quote in the paper where Pitino told Arinze that no team in the Big East, including Louisville, had anyone who could stop him. But we had Wes, Andy and KJo as other offensive weapons on that team, so he was basically a third or fourth option.

 

[tbonezone]

"I don’t thunk Chukwu will ever develop real low post moves. He’s almost too “gangly” and not naturally coordinated. "

I was a little too tall
Could've used a few pounds
Tight pants points hardly reknown ...

we talkin' working on the night moves or post moves ...