Recruiting versus the portal

[grepal]

the portal is just modern recruiting, NIL stacks the deck for the haves, same thing for high school recruiting, get used to it and if SU wants to relevant it needs more than Adam Weitsman, a lot more. I think one can build a championship level team using the portal, it only takes money. In a few years the NCAA may need an NIL cap if it wants balance and parody.

 

[Oakland]

the portal is just modern recruiting, NIL stacks the deck for the haves, same thing for high school recruiting, get used to it and if SU wants to relevant it needs more than Adam Weitsman, a lot more. I think one can build a championship level team using the portal, it only takes money. In a few years the NCAA may need an NIL cap if it wants balance and parody.

The NCAA is already getting a lot of parody.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

I don’t fully understand fans clamoring for reliance on the portal. Transfers are more of a known quantity than high school kids. I understand it from that angle, but transfers are most often just one year rentals who aren’t terribly concerned about the team winning or losing. They’re there for stats.

Transfers are a bandaid. A bandaid that takes significant minutes away from freshman who need time to develop. If we had brought in a transfer at Forward, we’d maybe have 1 or 2 fewer losses… maybe. We’d also see Bell hurting to find minutes and nobody would know Maliq Brown was even on the team. Then the transfer would bail and we’d be in the same boat next season, choosing between inexperienced players or half-interested rentals. Some transfers will stick around but good luck predicting that.

how can you say that statement

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Recruiting freshmen vs Portal recruiting is just the new way of the world and coaches are being left behind if they are only doing one or the other now...case in point our coach who doesn't tap the portal market like he should and other coaches who solely rely on the transfer market.

If you don't think that this team would be EXCEPTIONALLY better with a upperclassmen, proven transfer forward, than I don't know what to tell you.

We took too many freshmen this past recruiting class, there's no doubt about it and we're seeing some of the pains of having too many freshmen. The problem is...our coach is still on the "2005" mindset that, yeah it might be rough this year but when they hit sophmores and juniors, watch out. Problem is, a lot of them won't make it to that year with us. They'll transfer out..we're probably going to have 1-2 of this freshmen class leave at the end of the year...so have a "Rental" of a freshmen or "Rental" of a Junior...

 

[newmexicuse]

In today’s world, u cannot assume that freshmen will stay for very long. Ride the pine guys will leave for PT elsewhere. High level contributers, such as Mintz, will bail for the dollars at first opportunity. Today, teams have to be built for the now, with the thought that it is dangerous to assume any particular player will be here for more than a year or two, at least any particular player with starting caliber skills.

in a sense we have been fortunate with Buddy and Joe being four year guys because Buddy was the coaches kid and Joe clearly has no NBA future, so we did have a couple of good four year players, but they are the exception.

bottom line, you assemble a roster to win now and see what the future brings.

 

[Vshukla]

I'm not saying we wouldn't be better with experienced upperclassmen. My original question was how is recruiting through the portal different from regular recruiting? Don't the portal recruits have the same concerns regarding the coaching situation, the zone the short bench etc.?

 

[SUOrangeSU]

I'm not saying we wouldn't be better with experienced upperclassmen. My original question was how is recruiting through the portal different from regular recruiting? Don't the portal recruits have the same concerns regarding the coaching situation, the zone the short bench etc.?

I think you have to sell the role to the portal players and what you have on the roster. The “culture” stuff isnt as meaningful I bet. They know the jam already. They know the grind and whats expected.

 

[Sherman20]

I don’t fully understand fans clamoring for reliance on the portal. Transfers are more of a known quantity than high school kids. I understand it from that angle, but transfers are most often just one year rentals who aren’t terribly concerned about the team winning or losing. They’re there for stats.

Transfers are a bandaid. A bandaid that takes significant minutes away from freshman who need time to develop. If we had brought in a transfer at Forward, we’d maybe have 1 or 2 fewer losses… maybe. We’d also see Bell hurting to find minutes and nobody would know Maliq Brown was even on the team. Then the transfer would bail and we’d be in the same boat next season, choosing between inexperienced players or half-interested rentals. Some transfers will stick around but good luck predicting that.

You can only transfer once without sitting out. So unless they’re bailing for a pro career, they’re not necessarily “one year rentals.” See: Gbinije, Elijah Hughes, Pascal Chukwu, etc.

 

[Sherman20]

Sometimes all you need is a band aid. Someone that can put you over the top. And look around college sports. All kinds of teams are improving themselves with the use of the portal. As a matter of fact, the team that won the national title in soccer just last night, had 8 guys that they got from the portal. Including the 2 All-Americans. We wouldn't be better off with a portal forward right now? We won't need a portal guard next year? Or maybe a center?

Thanks for posting this response, Dasher. I want to pound the table (not just the portal) when I see stupid stuff like people questioning whether or not we should use the portal. Of course we should! (And I’m not saying that we shouldn’t also recruit a base of freshman to develop.)

 

[Nicknack]

I’m not saying that team wasn’t better because they picked up white and Gillon, I’m saying that they didn’t make Syracuse a contender because bringing in single year bandaids doesn’t cover a significant lack of depth. It is simply providing a comparison to say the alternative doesn’t magically result in a top 10 Syracuse team.

I think the White / Gillon team gets a bad rap. Once we got going, I really liked that team and it was a dangerous one. We just got too far in a hole early on unfortunately. That was a team I think that could have made some noise in the NCAA tourney.

 

[Sherman20]

I don't disagree Dasher, but my original question stands. If we are struggling to recruit top tier impact talent because of the reasons listed, why do we think we can get that difference maker through the portal? Cole was a solid player but was he a difference maker? Wes was a dozen years ago.

Cole wasn’t a difference maker?!? Elijah Hughes wasn’t?!? Hima already appears to be an upgrade over Frank in terms of what we need. JFC.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think the White / Gillon team gets a bad rap. Once we got going, I really liked that team and it was a dangerous one. We just got too far in a hole early on unfortunately. That was a team I think that could have made some noise in the NCAA tourney.

By the time Gillon became the point guard we already had dug ourselves a huge hole. JB stayed with Frank Howard way too long that season.

 

[pwong]

Recruiting freshmen vs Portal recruiting is just the new way of the world and coaches are being left behind if they are only doing one or the other now...case in point our coach who doesn't tap the portal market like he should and other coaches who solely rely on the transfer market.

If you don't think that this team would be EXCEPTIONALLY better with a upperclassmen, proven transfer forward, than I don't know what to tell you.

We took too many freshmen this past recruiting class, there's no doubt about it and we're seeing some of the pains of having too many freshmen. The problem is...our coach is still on the "2005" mindset that, yeah it might be rough this year but when they hit sophmores and juniors, watch out. Problem is, a lot of them won't make it to that year with us. They'll transfer out..we're probably going to have 1-2 of this freshmen class leave at the end of the year...so have a "Rental" of a freshmen or "Rental" of a Junior...

It’s also harder for a kid to transfer a second time so you’re more likely to retain multi year transfers vs recruits who can leave whenever.

 

[pulaski74]

In this age, youre suppose to recruit HS kids to fill out your bench and develop unless theyre a top 35 kid. Then, use the portal to get impact players and fill any needs until the HS kids are ready.

JB doesn’t go on the road to recruit outside of the big aau tournaments. Just hit the portal hard, do some zoom calls for a couple weeks, then enjoy the rest of your summer lol.

Sell your soul for a chip?

 

[Brooky03]

I think the White / Gillon team gets a bad rap. Once we got going, I really liked that team and it was a dangerous one. We just got too far in a hole early on unfortunately. That was a team I think that could have made some noise in the NCAA tourney.

When did that team get going? They still sucked at the end of the season.

 

[OrangeDW]

When did that team get going? They still sucked at the end of the season.

Beat 3 top 10 teams(Duke, Virginia, FSU) and lost to a 4th (LVille) in OT.

Losing 5 non conference games was the killer. 10-8 in the ACC with 3 top 10 wins probably gets us in if we only lose 2 or 3 in the nonconference.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Beat 3 top 10 teams(Duke, Virginia, FSU) and lost to a 4th (LVille) in OT.

Losing 5 non conference games was the killer. 10-8 in the ACC with 3 top 10 wins probably gets us in if we only lose 2 or 3 in the nonconference.

Michael Stephens hosed us in that Louisville game. Might be the angriest I’ve ever been at an official at the dome.

 

[Brooky03]

Beat 3 top 10 teams(Duke, Virginia, FSU) and lost to a 4th (LVille) in OT.

Losing 5 non conference games was the killer. 10-8 in the ACC with 3 top 10 wins probably gets us in if we only lose 2 or 3 in the nonconference.

We also lost to 2 very very bad teams near the end of the season when we were starting to get in the bubble conversation and lost to a mediocre team, Miami, in the ACCT.

It was a team that could get hot from deep and win some games that way. They couldn’t play a lick of defense. Idk, I don’t remember that team putting together consistent performances for wins down the stretch. We had a 5 game winning streak in the middle of ACC play. 2 good teams, 2 bad teams (one we needed a buzzer beater to beat), and a mediocre team.

You’re right that the non-conference losses kept us out of the tournament, but that’s just what that team was. Looking at box scores, John Gillon playing more to start the season could have possibly changed the outcome of the UConn game and that’s it. He wasn’t playing particularly well in his 16 minutes that game, though.

 

[grepal]

The NCAA is already getting a lot of parody.

Darn spell check, darn covid brain, anyway my post was just a parody of itself.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We also lost to 2 very very bad teams near the end of the season when we were starting to get in the bubble conversation and lost to a mediocre team, Miami, in the ACCT.

It was a team that could get hot from deep and win some games that way. They couldn’t play a lick of defense. Idk, I don’t remember that team putting together consistent performances for wins down the stretch. We had a 5 game winning streak in the middle of ACC play. 2 good teams, 2 bad teams (one we needed a buzzer beater to beat), and a mediocre team.

You’re right that the non-conference losses kept us out of the tournament, but that’s just what that team was. Looking at box scores, John Gillon playing more to start the season could have possibly changed the outcome of the UConn game and that’s it. He wasn’t playing particularly well in his 16 minutes that game, though.

If that was the only lineup issue that season you may have a point, but he also started the season with White at shooting guard and Lydon at SF. It was the worst ball handling team we ever had through the first 14 games. I get why he tried it, but we stuck with it too long.

 

[Brooky03]

If that was the only lineup issue that season you may have a point, but he also started the season with White at shooting guard and Lydon at SF. It was the worst ball handling team we ever had through the first 14 games. I get why he tried it, but we stuck with it too long.

In the South Carolina loss, he played 15 minutes at guard. We lost by 14. Hard to say those 15 minutes going elsewhere would have made up for that many points, but who knows. Wisconsin was a top 25 team that was just better than us. White played 20 guards minutes in that one. We lost by 17. Maybe that game changes with guard minutes going elsewhere.

But neither of those were truly bad losses. In the bad losses, White was hardly playing any guard minutes. I’m seeing 2 minutes at guard against UConn and 3 against G’town. He had what looks like 9 against St. John’s, but we lost that one by 400 points.

 

[Fly Rodder]

where are you getting "guard minutes" from?

 

[Cusefan0307]

In the South Carolina loss, he played 15 minutes at guard. We lost by 14. Hard to say those 15 minutes going elsewhere would have made up for that many points, but who knows. Wisconsin was a top 25 team that was just better than us. White played 20 guards minutes in that one. We lost by 17. Maybe that game changes with guard minutes going elsewhere.

But neither of those were truly bad losses. In the bad losses, White was hardly playing any guard minutes. I’m seeing 2 minutes at guard against UConn and 3 against G’town. He had what looks like 9 against St. John’s, but we lost that one by 400 points.

I think you're making it more simple than it actually is.

 

[jdubs30]

 

[CuseFaninVT]

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