Remember when I said the coaching staff

[OttoMets]

Whoah. You're serious? You honestly think Roberson doesn't score as much as Lydon simply because TyRobe doesn't get the same opportunities?

No, and I didn't say that. But they don't get the same opportunities.

Boeheim's wrong and there's no sense trying to defend him when he starts to throw words together after he's been criticized. Logic's not on that side.

 

[OttoMets]

Pretty sure he had a snide comment about Roberson immediately after the game if I remember correctly.

...

Exactly. He couldn't even bring himself to praise him after the Duke game.

The whole thing's ridiculous. The senior point guard who dribbles the ball off his foot once a game is playing "very well," but Offensive Option #5 (who sat for 40% of Saturday's game) is cited as the reason we're not winning.

There are two possible reasons to defend Boeheim on this one. First, you've got inside knowledge that Roberson's dogging it at practice or doing something toxic behind the scenes (most of you don't have that knowledge). Second, Hall of Fame, orange-tinted glasses, Boeheim can do no wrong.

 

[rrlbees]

So no one else recruited him or offered him scholarships? Interesting. All of the recruiting websites must have lied.

Who said nobody recruited him or offered? I said he wasn't qualified so how can you count him on your list. There's always kids in basketball and football who get recruited and offered who end up not qualified and thus not enrolled anyplace.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Boeheim's been like this for years. Why does it upset people so much? If we expect to beat Pitt we need an inside prescence.

The players know what they are getting when they sign up here. This isn't new. I've heard worse from Boeheim before:

"A dead guy can get more rebounds than Craig did tonight"- about Craig Forth circa 2005.

 

[orangenirvana]

No, and I didn't say that. But they don't get the same opportunities.

Boeheim's wrong and there's no sense trying to defend him when he starts to throw words together after he's been criticized. Logic's not on that side.

Good to know you're the overseer of logic.

So how would you suggest giving Roberson opportunities to score? To this point he's shown little-to-no ability to score on a consistent basis. He can't shoot from the outside. He struggles making consistent mid-range jump shots. He misses more layups than Craig Forth and rarely dunks.

What's the best way to spoon-feed him so he can score?

 

[orangenirvana]

Who said nobody recruited him or offered? I said he wasn't qualified so how can you count him on your list. There's always kids in basketball and football who get recruited and offered who end up not qualified and thus not enrolled anyplace.

Because the discussion is about recruiting - not enrollment. Despite Diagne being declared ineligible, his signing can be used as evidence that the coaching staff is still recruiting well.

 

[Dave85]

Good to know you're the overseer of logic.

So how would you suggest giving Roberson opportunities to score? To this point he's shown little-to-no ability to score on a consistent basis. He can't shoot from the outside. He struggles making consistent mid-range jump shots. He misses more layups than Craig Forth and rarely dunks.

What's the best way to spoon-feed him so he can score?

There are several reason for why he's not playing so well lately. I hope whatever it is he gets past it. We will need him to play very well if we make the NCAA tournament.

 

[Dave85]

Because the discussion is about recruiting - not enrollment. Despite Diagne being declared ineligible, his signing can be used as evidence that the coaching staff is still recruiting well.

There should be a department reporting to the AD that makes sure LOI athlete's credentials are NCAA compliant. It just seems to me this issue is school wide in every sport and not just basketball. The same thing for academics and summer jobs. Our sports coaches need to concentrate only on coaching.

 

[rrlbees]

Because the discussion is about recruiting - not enrollment. Despite Diagne being declared ineligible, his signing can be used as evidence that the coaching staff is still recruiting well.

Ah, you gave the reasons of leaving early, the sanctions, etc. not players never qualified. You look at your list and he's the one that doesn't fit. But I'm on the side of Boeheim can still recruit so it doesn't matter.

 

[OttoMets]

Good to know you're the overseer of logic.

So how would you suggest giving Roberson opportunities to score? To this point he's shown little-to-no ability to score on a consistent basis. He can't shoot from the outside. He struggles making consistent mid-range jump shots. He misses more layups than Craig Forth and rarely dunks.

What's the best way to spoon-feed him so he can score?

I don't consider him a very good finisher, either, but you're probably overstating that a bit: he's shooting 65% at the rim this season. (Only Lydon's finishing better.)

Roberson's showed that he can hit a 17-footer (not good, but adequate), though it's been a long time since he's attempted one. Again, that's not the first, second, or third option on offense, but it certainly should be an option when he's on the floor. We've seen the result when teams scout us and are told that he's not going to take that shot - they cheat and double the post.

He's been very good for three years in pick and roll situations. Unfortunately, Frank Howard seems to be the only Syracuse player who can initiate a high pick and roll; with a couple happy exceptions, Gbinije gets totally frozen when the hedge steps up on him.

He's occasionally initiated his own offense from the high post, either driving to the rim for a layup or dumping the ball to the post (he, Coleman, and Lydon are all good interior passers.

He's able to present a threat in each of these ways. When he gets no touches, he's a threat in one way: as a garbage man. And surely I'm not the only one who noticed that Louisville and Pittsburgh essentially face-guarded him every time a shot went up, giving up a potential rebounder to take him away from the glass?

Other teams have adapted to take away what he does well. We could have recognized this and tried to exploit those changes. Instead, Boeheim criticized his limitations, further limited his role and minutes, and then criticized his lack of production in a game that he was drawn out of. It's so strange that there are so many posts on two sides of what looks like a fairly black-and-white topic.

 

[Ward]

C'mon, you're trying to claim you are talking about recent recruiting and you are not including our last two classes? That's ridiculous.

SU's recruiting has increased dramatically. The problem in getting top talent is it is a lot riskier. There is a need to replenish quicker and mistakes or misses can be magnified - KJ2, or not hitting on a center for instance. This can happen when you employ the riskier strategy of going after the upper talent - even Kentucky got caught before.

It's ridiculous to not include players who are currently seniors in high school when evaluating how good our team this year and last year was? You're right, saying Matt Moyer and Tyus Battle as juniors in high school and Paschal Chukwu suiting up for Providence last year was contributing to the program's wins and losses during the 2014-15 season makes total sense. That sounds sarcastic but that literally is the point you're trying to make which is mind boggling.

The last two years we have had thin stretch 4 freshmen as our back up center, or in the case of this year our primary center, and have had to teach a small forward how to be our primary point guard. Gbinije doesn't have to learn to be a pg on the fly and can play his natural position (same with McCullough and center to a smaller extent) if we do a better job at bringing in and developing players at those positions in prior years. Granted nobody could have predicted Coleman's injuries but that just makes it all the more important to have depth and players ready to account for something like that. However, this is also ignoring the year MCW and Triche were our only guards or Ennis was our only pg but we got really lucky with injuries and didn't get burned.

As I tried to explain before, Lydon and McCullough don't have to play out of position at center or Gbinije out of position at point guard if we do a better job at evaluating, recruiting, and developing talent the years prior. Who we brought in as a part of our 2015 and 2016 classes is not the point, especially the 2016 class which I'm shocked I even have to explain to you.

 

[rrlbees]

There should be a department reporting to the AD that makes sure LOI athlete's credentials are NCAA compliant. It just seems to me this issue is school wide in every sport and not just basketball. The same thing for academics and summer jobs. Our sports coaches need to concentrate only on coaching.

Then you'd have to eliminate LOI's or move the date to after school ends. Plenty of kids become qualified after signing the LOI. SATs and ACTs have dates after LOI and kids may not have required courses until the end of the school year.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Boeheim's been like this for years. Why does it upset people so much? If we expect to beat Pitt we need an inside prescence.

The players know what they are getting when they sign up here. This isn't new. I've heard worse from Boeheim before:

"A dead guy can get more rebounds than Craig did tonight"- about Craig Forth circa 2005.

So why don't you play the people most likely to give you an inside presence?

G, Richardson, Lydon, Roberson, and Coleman. "Wahhh but our offense won't be any good!". Bull. Trevor made a single basket on Saturday and we still have three shooters on the floor.

(not calling you out, mostly just speaking in genera).

 

[orangenirvana]

I don't consider him a very good finisher, either, but you're probably overstating that a bit: he's shooting 65% at the rim this season. (Only Lydon's finishing better.)

Roberson's showed that he can hit a 17-footer (not good, but adequate), though it's been a long time since he's attempted one. Again, that's not the first, second, or third option on offense, but it certainly should be an option when he's on the floor. We've seen the result when teams scout us and are told that he's not going to take that shot - they cheat and double the post.

He's been very good for three years in pick and roll situations. Unfortunately, Frank Howard seems to be the only Syracuse player who can initiate a high pick and roll; with a couple happy exceptions, Gbinije gets totally frozen when the hedge steps up on him.

He's occasionally initiated his own offense from the high post, either driving to the rim for a layup or dumping the ball to the post (he, Coleman, and Lydon are all good interior passers.

He's able to present a threat in each of these ways. When he gets no touches, he's a threat in one way: as a garbage man. And surely I'm not the only one who noticed that Louisville and Pittsburgh essentially face-guarded him every time we put a shot up, giving up a potential defensive rebounder to take him away from the glass?

Other teams have adapted to take away what he does well. We could have recognized this and tried to exploit those changes. Instead, Boeheim criticized his limitations, further limited his role and minutes, and then criticized his lack of production in a game that he was drawn out of. It's so strange that there are so many posts on two sides of what looks like a fairly black-and-white topic.

Most of this is fair. So TyRob has shown potential to do certain things when it comes to scoring. IMO his potential to score is significantly greater than his scoring production but he's just not motivated or confident enough to do it. He's never shown the wherewithal or mental fortitude to take opportunities himself as opposed to laying back and hoping they fall to him.

For instance, he had a number of touches on Saturday but did literally nothing with them. Should Boeheim get on the loud speaker and tell him to shoot or dribble-drive every time he touches it? At some point the player has to play.

Teams have smartly keyed on Roberson, taking away the one thing he does extremely well (rebound). It has worked because Roberson hasn't aggressively battled against those adjustments. He's merely shrugged his shoulders and said "It just wasn't my day."

How would you suggest Boeheim exploit those changes?

 

[Cusefan0307]

So why don't you play the people most likely to give you an inside presence?

G, Richardson, Lydon, Roberson, and Coleman. "Wahhh but our offense won't be any good!". Bull. Trevor made a single basket on Saturday and we still have three shooters on the floor.

(not calling you out, mostly just speaking in genera).

Cooney and Richardson both had terrible shooting games. They're for the most part inconsistent shooters. That really has nothing to do with Roberson. Shooting can be off games, but you still should have energy. Why doesn't he show energy/aggressiveness?

If your guards have bad shooting games you need your JR power forward to show up and get a double/double and have energy, play defense and be aggressive especially against a physical team like Pitt.

After the Duke game people were comparing him to a college version of Rodman, he doesn't bring close to the amount of energy you need to get 10 rebounds each game. Not sure how playing him with Lydon and Coleman would help him be more productive. He still doesn't shoot/make 10 footers.

 

[Ward]

So why don't you play the people most likely to give you an inside presence?

G, Richardson, Lydon, Roberson, and Coleman. "Wahhh but our offense won't be any good!". Bull. Trevor made a single basket on Saturday and we still have three shooters on the floor.

(not calling you out, mostly just speaking in genera).

I like this line up a lot and find it somewhat ironic that some people who think this lineup wouldn't be effective are also excited about next years possible starting 5 of Battle, Richardson, Lydon, Roberson, Chukwu. I know Chukwu will probably be an upgrade over Coleman but Battle and Gbinije I'm not sure how much difference there will be there next year. However, I'm sure many are taking into account the one year of improvement/development from Roberson, Malachi, and Lydon which is fair.

 

[dasher]

Cooney and Richardson both had terrible shooting games. They're for the most part inconsistent shooters. That really has nothing to do with Roberson. Shooting can be off games, but you still should have energy. Why doesn't he show energy/aggressiveness?

If your guards have bad shooting games you need your JR power forward to show up and get a double/double and have energy, play defense and be aggressive especially against a physical team like Pitt.

After the Duke game people were comparing him to a college version of Rodman, he doesn't bring close to the amount of energy you need to get 10 rebounds each game. Not sure how playing him with Lydon and Coleman would help him be more productive. He still doesn't shoot/make 10 footers.

Roberson has a passive manner. We knew that when we recruited him or at least we should have. If we didn't like it, we shouldn't have recruited him.

 

[dasher]

I like this line up a lot and find it somewhat ironic that some people who think this lineup wouldn't be effective are also excited about next years possible starting 5 of Battle, Richardson, Lydon, Roberson, Chukwu. I know Chukwu will probably be an upgrade over Coleman but Battle and Gbinije I'm not sure how much difference there will be there next year.

First, people and I am one of them, expect Lydon and Mali to make a jump from their freshman year to their jr year. We will have a 7-2 kid in the middle who we also expect to make a jump after a year off. battle and G may be a toss up.

 

[Ward]

First, people and I am one of them, expect Lydon and Mali to make a jump from their freshman year to their jr year. We will have a 7-2 kid in the middle who we also expect to make a jump after a year off. battle and G may be a toss up.

Beat me to it, just edited my post to say many are anticipating the improvement of the returning guys from one year to the next. I think Lydon's biggest improvement will come from being able to focus on his natural position. I've heard from some people who have seen Chukwu in practice that he is going to be a very high level rim protector next year which will help quite a bit.

 

[SUbear]

Yes, they're completely different. Knight was a brutish bully -- K is nothing like that. Have you ever read about K physically abusing someone or publicly humiliating someone?

No K does his dirty work with mental shots but learned the game and coaching from Bobby Knight. He does come from Bobby's tree after all.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Cooney and Richardson both had terrible shooting games. They're for the most part inconsistent shooters. That really has nothing to do with Roberson. Shooting can be off games, but you still should have energy. Why doesn't he show energy/aggressiveness?

If your guards have bad shooting games you need your JR power forward to show up and get a double/double and have energy, play defense and be aggressive especially against a physical team like Pitt.

After the Duke game people were comparing him to a college version of Rodman, he doesn't bring close to the amount of energy you need to get 10 rebounds each game. Not sure how playing him with Lydon and Coleman would help him be more productive. He still doesn't shoot/make 10 footers.

Because lots of players average double doubles. Guy has hit 10+ boards 9 times this season. Had only 4 against Pitt but in only 25 minutes. Leads the league in offensive rebounds per game. 9th in the league at rebounding from a forward spot.

 

[longislandcuse]

First, people and I am one of them, expect Lydon and Mali to make a jump from their freshman year to their jr year. We will have a 7-2 kid in the middle who we also expect to make a jump after a year off. battle and G may be a toss up.

Lydon and Mali are both going to be projected 1st round picks in their second year of college. They should make pretty big jumps to what is already pretty stellar play.

Chukwu is a huge upgrade if everything we hear about him is even 75% accurate.

Battle and G are toss ups and Cooney is such an enigma that I don't know what to make of him as far as a +/- for his replacement.

Howard should also make a jump from freshman to soph plus who knows what we see in roster additions/turnover if any/all of Joseph/Roberson/Coleman leave.

 

[OttoMets]

Most of this is fair. So TyRob has shown potential to do certain things when it comes to scoring. IMO his potential to score is significantly greater than his scoring production but he's just not motivated or confident enough to do it. He's never shown the wherewithal or mental fortitude to take opportunities himself as opposed to laying back and hoping they fall to him.

For instance, he had a number of touches on Saturday but did literally nothing with them. Should Boeheim get on the loud speaker and tell him to shoot or dribble-drive every time he touches it? At some point the player has to play.

Teams have smartly keyed on Roberson, taking away the one thing he does extremely well (rebound). It has worked because Roberson hasn't aggressively battled against those adjustments. He's merely shrugged his shoulders and said "It just wasn't my day."

How would you suggest Boeheim exploit those changes?

More dribble-drives for Roberson, coupled with a green-light to take that elbow jumper (not with 25 on the shot clock or anything like that, but decisively if he's unguarded mid/late in a possession). More touches for him in the high post when Lydon's in the game; spread the floor, run cutters off screens. Frankly (get it? FRANKly), more Howard - he's the only guard who creates shot opportunities for his teammates.

It's tough to infer things like motivation. I'm not saying you're definitely wrong on that count, but none of us can be sure that we're right, either. (Though Roberson sure doesn't look confident, which makes Boeheim's comments look even more counterproductive.)

Regarding the rebounding, Boeheim got the guards to do a much better job on the defensive glass when he returned. That went missing right around the time Roberson started to get more attention a couple weeks ago, which doesn't quite make sense: if one opponent is keying on Roberson's body and effectively giving up as a rebounder, we should have an advantage. Gotta capitalize on that; it's not like we've got a transition game. Dump the guards into the lane and prioritize rebounding.

 

[SUbear]

if i don't like something someone says i speak my piece Jack. no matter who's name is on the court. truth.

ps. roberson's averaging 10 and 9 in conference. you got somebody better ?

I believe that was Jim's point, we do not have better, but this team needs more from that position than TRob has been delivering, and if he had someone better that player would be playing not TRob.
I have no problem with what was said because it was simply the truth, as I have seen it all year. Players need to toughen up and deliver more or they won't play. Simply the nature of being successful in this game.
Other players are underperforming too, but he did not mention them so what?
The fact is this team is deficient in many respects, but Trobs inconsistnt play is one of the few things that could be relatively easily improved, if he simply played with mor effort and intensity.

 

[SUbear]

Pretty sure he had a snide comment about Roberson immediately after the game if I remember correctly.

I'm curious as to how JB expects Roberson to score when he rarely gets the ball passed to him in a scoring position. I'm pretty sure JB doesn't want him to drive from 18', or shoot from that distance. So then Tyler is responsible only for getting offensive rebounds to score because God knows G wasn't able to successfully run the pick and roll with the way Pitt was hedging those picks. I'm at a complete loss as to how JB expects more when as one poster pointed out, the guy guarding Roberson was essentially boxing him out all over the floor specifically to prevent him from attacking the offensive glass.

He's not been great lately, but I just don't understand the great and powerful JB's comments after the game, other than to either show the kid the door, or push him further down into his shell.

And this isn't all of a sudden for Boeheim being 'mean', it's kind of a familiar pattern.

Obviously you have never heard of scoring after rebounding , which is frankly the best way for him to score, since he has a very limited offensive skill set.