Class of 2016 SG/SF Andrew White (VA; Grad Transfer from Nebraska)

[asj410]

I can't remember a Syracuse team where the time on court leader didn't average at least 34 minutes a game. Is it possible that this years team changes that? These first world problems are beautiful.

You piqued my interest, so I took a look. 2011-12 was the last time no player averaged at least 34 mpg. Kris Joseph led the team at 32.2. In 2010-11, Rick Jackson actually led at 35.6 mpg (higher that Rak in '14-15, who was at 34.3 and was third behind Cooney and G), which I thought was pretty interesting. I actually would have guessed that '09-10 was the last time no player averaged more than 34 mpg with all 7 rotation guys seeing so much PT, but Wes was at 35.0.

 

[SUFan44]

Y'all have lost your minds if you think Syracuse has a true rotation of more than 8 guys as long as Boeheim is coaching.

We have seen 8.5 (2010-11) or 9 (2011-12) on occasion.

 

[orangefog]

imo if you look how often we pressed in ncaas , we will press roughly that much, probably a little more because we have way more depth and an ideal pressing lineup. but by no means will it be every game

I don't think it will be every game, but I think it will be in just about every game against solid competition, and not just when we are down.

 

[Dave85]

AW3, please commit already!

 

[orangenirvana]

I think we have two data points of comparison--and both go back awhile--but in 2000, we had a deep roster and JB routinely played 9 guys [Griffin, Shumpert, MeShaun, Celuck].

In 2012, we had a deep roster and JB routinely played 9 guys [Dion, CJ, Fair, with MCW getting less consistent minutes].

I don't expect Pitino style freewheeling substitutions, but on the few occasions where we've had depth that he trusts, he's used it.

You're right - there have been a few occasions in the modern era (turn of the century) where JB used 9 guys full-time and not just preseason appearances or token minutes. 2011-12 is the best example of that. Though 1999-00 is not as Celuck played in only 14 of 32 games that season (preseason and blowouts) and averaged 6.3 minutes in of those appearances. He delved into it a bit in 2004-05, 2005-06 - though I doubt that was by design but rather player inconsistency.

It's been rare but he has done it so this team could be a true 9-man rotation with the 10th man getting token minutes.

 

[normaliswear]

AW3, please commit already!

I know how ya feel. I tell myself to be patient but I think being thos close to the actual season and combined with months of TT watch I'm ready for this to be over. That said, the kid is worth the wait and I'd much rather be tortured a few more weeks and have him here than have him go elsewhere now.

 

[Dave85]

I know how ya feel. I tell myself to be patient but I think being thos close to the actual season and combined with months of TT watch I'm ready for this to be over. That said, the kid is worth the wait and I'd much rather be tortured a few more weeks and have him here than have him go elsewhere now.

I feel like a mental patient. Thank God fantasy football starts next month. I need a diversion to make it until November.

 

[orangenirvana]

You piqued my interest, so I took a look. 2011-12 was the last time no player averaged at least 34 mpg. Kris Joseph led the team at 32.2. In 2010-11, Rick Jackson actually led at 35.6 mpg (higher that Rak in '14-15, who was at 34.3 and was third behind Cooney and G), which I thought was pretty interesting. I actually would have guessed that '09-10 was the last time no player averaged more than 34 mpg with all 7 rotation guys seeing so much PT, but Wes was at 35.0.

Fun Fact - The top two players in the country in minutes played last season both played for Syracuse.

 

[Toga]

 

[jordoo]

You're right - there have been a few occasions in the modern era (turn of the century) where JB used 9 guys full-time and not just preseason appearances or token minutes. 2011-12 is the best example of that. Though 1999-00 is not as Celuck played in only 14 of 32 games that season (preseason and blowouts) and averaged 6.3 minutes in of those appearances. He delved into it a bit in 2004-05, 2005-06 - though I doubt that was by design but rather player inconsistency.

It's been rare but he has done it so this team could be a true 9-man rotation with the 10th man getting token minutes.

Most of the time JB has gone to 9 guys it has indicated that there are issues somewhere in the usual 7/8 man rotation. I can only think of 1 or 2 years it was because the 8th/9th guys were too good to sit. JB obviously prefers 2 centers, 3 interchangeable forwards with 1 who can be an emergency center. 3 guards 2 of which can play the point (if one can slide to the 3 even better). This is why I wonder if we see a regular rotation deeper than 8 this year. Battle, Gillon, White, Lydon, Roberson, Howard, DC2, Chukwu would seem to fit JB's preferred type of rotation that also has tons of flexibility. This has nothing to do with how ready Moyer or Thompson are but if they want to be part of the rotation in contested conference games and post season then they need to impress early and often IMO. Both are going to be very key players in the 2017/18 season. It may not be a question so much of what the 9th and 10th guy can't do but what they can do that the 1-8 guys cannot also accomplish.

 

[4evaOrange]

You guys are crazy, I'm headed down to the Anna Kendrick thread...

 

[asj410]

Most of the time JB has gone to 9 guys it has indicated that there are issues somewhere in the usual 7/8 man rotation. I can only think of 1 or 2 years it was because the 8th/9th guys were too good to sit. JB obviously prefers 2 centers, 3 interchangeable forwards with 1 who can be an emergency center. 3 guards 2 of which can play the point (if one can slide to the 3 even better). This is why I wonder if we see a regular rotation deeper than 8 this year. Battle, Gillon, White, Lydon, Roberson, Howard, DC2, Chukwu would seem to fit JB's preferred type of rotation that also has tons of flexibility. This has nothing to do with how ready Moyer or Thompson are but if they want to be part of the rotation in contested conference games and post season then they need to impress early and often IMO. Both are going to be very key players in the 2017/18 season. It may not be a question so much of what the 9th and 10th guy can't do but what they can do that the 1-8 guys cannot also accomplish.

Very well put, IMO, jordoo!

 

[Cusefan0307]

He's coming.

One of McCallister's boys is trolling you on twitter... How ya feel about that???

 

[normaliswear]

You guys are crazy, I'm headed down to the Anna Kendrick thread...

That is NEVER the wrong choice.

 

[Dave85]

You guys are crazy, I'm headed down to the Anna Kendrick thread...

Maybe there's a reason why you see "crazy" you are not aware of. You only ever criticize in other people what you do not like about your own character. The stuff you like you never notice.

 

[4evaOrange]

Maybe there's a reason why you see "crazy" you are not aware of. You only ever criticize in other people what you do not like about your own character. The stuff you like you never notice.

Ok calm down Buddha...

 

[nycfan]

Nope
Battle
Gillon
Lydon
Roberson
DC.

In stone like the 10 Commandments.

Okay, I'll bite. 83% of the three's made last year were made by 3 guys---G, Cooney, Malachi. All three now obviously gone. That is a helluva lot of perimeter shooting to replace (and although Lydon is a real good shooter, he only made 49 all season). So now you have a guy that averaged nearly 17 ppg in the Big Ten, who thought about going pro before pulling his name out, that shoots an insane 41% from three (which is even higher than Lydon's great team-leading percentage last year). On what planet doesn't he start on this year's shooting deprived team? (Gillon shot a very mediocre 33% last year--that's even lower than Cooney and Mali).

 

[pearl31]

One of McCallister's boys is trolling you on twitter... How ya feel about that???

what are they saying?

 

[Dave85]

Okay, I'll bite. 83% of the three's made last year were made by 3 guys---G, Cooney, Malachi. All three now obviously gone. That is a helluva lot of perimeter shooting to replace (and although Lydon is a real good shooter, he only made 49 all season). So now you have a guy that averaged nearly 17 ppg in the Big Ten, who thought about going pro before pulling his name out, that shoots an insane 41% from three (which is even higher than Lydon's great team-leading percentage last year). On what planet doesn't he start on this year's shooting deprived team? (Gillon shot a very mediocre 33% last year--that's even lower than Cooney and Mali).

I totally agree with your "what planet" sentiment. However, as we have seen every year, the guys who play the best defense usually get the most PT regardless of how streaky their shaky potatoes can be.

 

[HoustonCuse]

One of McCallister's boys is trolling you on twitter... How ya feel about that???

Post em. I am not a twitter person, but without a name it is probably hard for us to find these tweets. They are on topic if they're about this recruitment and insider info.

 

[Cusefan0307]

what are they saying?

Nobody really knows where White is going and a guy on a message board was wrong. "Shocking"

 

[Cusefan0307]

Post em. I am not a twitter person, but without a name it is probably hard for us to find these tweets. They are on topic if they're about this recruitment and insider info.

I would copy and paste directly from the Twitter, however I am at work and twitter is blocked here...

 

[Dave85]

Nobody really knows where White is going and a guy on a message board was wrong. "Shocking"

I have never told a false opinion.

 

[Consigliere]

Whoever plays the best 2-3 zone defense will get the most minutes.

No question about this. As stated earlier the best way to get a quick hook from JB is to miss a defensive assignment. While there is little difference between the SG and SF position offensively there is a huge difference in responsibilities between playing the top of the zone and the position. To me, the way we expect our forwards to extend to the perimeter, elbow extended, then drop back to protect baseline and rotate into the back side of the post when the ball swings opposite corner is MUCH more challenging than playing the top where the focus is pinching the middle to cut off dribble penetration. Looking back at last November and December Malachi looked lost on more than one occasion. It will be tough enough for a new player to learn one position, much less two, at least by day 1.

I see White at the 2 as part of a rotation with Gillen and Battle who look to be combo guards and Howard who is best suited as a 1. Lydon getting big minutes at the 3 with Moyer backing him up. Eventually either White or Battle work their way into the SF rotation depending on which one masters the zone responsibilities quickest.

 

[Dave85]

No question about this. As stated earlier the best way to get a quick hook from JB is to miss a defensive assignment. While there is little difference between the SG and SF position offensively there is a huge difference in responsibilities between playing the top of the zone and the position. To me, the way we expect our forwards to extend to the perimeter, elbow extended, then drop back to protect baseline and rotate into the back side of the post when the ball swings opposite corner is MUCH more challenging than playing the top where the focus is pinching the middle to cut off dribble penetration. Looking back at last November and December Malachi looked lost on more than one occasion. It will be tough enough for a new player to learn one position, much less two, at least by day 1.

I see White at the 2 as part of a rotation with Gillen and Battle who look to be combo guards and Howard who is best suited as a 1. Lydon getting big minutes at the 3 with Moyer backing him up. Eventually either White or Battle work their way into the SF rotation depending on which one masters the zone responsibilities quickest.

I agree. One mistake on defense will get a player yanked.

I was thinking Gillon, White, Lydon, Roberson, and Coleman as starters. White plays the 2 for three or four minutes so he's happy. Then Battle comes in off the bench like Dion Waiters used to do and plays the 2 spot. White slips down to the 3 spot. And Lydon swings over to the 4 or 5 depending if Roberson stays in. Then Chukwu and Howard get slipped in as needed. Moyer and TT get at most 8 to 10 minutes. I don't think Moyer will red-shirt as some people are suggesting. Howard subs for Gillon as needed.