So Moyer

[cuse309]

The game has also changed since then.

in what way that makes the point invalid?

 

[tbonezone]

regardless he'd still have to better the lottery pick frosh forwards duke and UNC bring in every year . nice thought but realistically i don't see it happening.

 

[Arangeman]

Matt Moyer is a FRESHMAN that is the problem plain and simple.

He’ll be 21 in June. He’s played enough basketball to know not to chuck the ball into the backcourt in a panic.

I think he can be a solid role player. He’s a smart kid who I am hoping will have a more cerebral approach to the game in the future.

 

[MG44]

13 seed. Kansas lost to the 14 seed.

yeah thats right...I remember JB saying something like "thank god kansas lost this weekend or id never hear the end of it"

 

[longislandcuse]

in what way that makes the point invalid?

High D1 teams, especially those teams who constantly have early entrants (that includes us), don't exactly have the luxury of having redshirt freshman who are unplayable.

Maybe he develops and can give us minutes as a Junior because, depending on who we recruit for '20, we will (hopefully) have one pencilled in forward in Dolezaj because OB/Bazley are gone after next year.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Mattew Moyer will never be the idiot that slaps the backboard and gets T'd up while we are losing to a 14 seed

Doesn't make him better than Roberts, who was a couple of bad wheels from being a borderline NBA rebound/defense specialist. Crazy athlete and rebounder.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Clearly seems to be an overstatement at this point. He can be serviceable, maybe a lot more as he has a few years to work hard and he has some skills to work with, but clearly?

Moyer was a Top 50 national recruit coming out of high school. He had over 20 offers with over half being the high-major (P5) level.

Yes, he struggle at times this year. However, I see no reason to doubt his skills. Biggest problem Moyer has right now is between the ears. He’ll figure that out over time. I expect big things from him as a Junior and Senior. He’ll be a solid 4 year (really 5 year) guy that gets better each year.

 

[DoctorBombay]

he’s the player I wonder about being back next year.

Why? Do you know something or just idle speculation?

 

[longislandcuse]

Moyer was a Top 50 national recruit coming out of high school. He had over 20 offers with over half being the high-major (P5) level.

Yes, he struggle at times this year. However, I see no reason to doubt his skills. Biggest problem Moyer has right now is between the ears. He’ll figure that out over time. I expect big things from him as a Junior and Senior. He’ll be a solid 4 year (really 5 year) guy that gets better each year.

I don't understand this lol. "No reason to doubt his skills"...?

Listen, he seems like a great guy and I have no problem with him being a program player and I'll root for him to prove me wrong. That being said, he's a redshirt freshman and what skills does he currently possess that back up your post. Can't shoot. Can't dribble. Can't pass. Decent wing defender. Decent rebounder. Decent finisher around the rim. That's the breakdown on his skillset so far. I very much doubt his skills but, hopefully, if he gets minutes as a Junior or Senior he's developed those skills.

 

[Waltdods]

High D1 teams, especially those teams who constantly have early entrants (that includes us), don't exactly have the luxury of having redshirt freshman who are unplayable.

Maybe he develops and can give us minutes as a Junior because, depending on who we recruit for '20, we will (hopefully) have one pencilled in forward in Dolezaj because OB/Bazley are gone after next year.

How has any of this changed since Andy Rautins and arinze onuaku were freshmen?

 

[leftytg]

I'm happy to have him in the program - he seems to be a genuinely good dude and great culture guy. That has value and, to me, makes him worthy of his scholarship.

But some of you are falling into this logical fallacy that just because he is a "freshman" (a nearly 21 year old redshirt freshman), that he is guaranteed to improve by leaps and bounds. I just don't see it. I wouldn't go so far as to say he isn't a D-1 player, but I don't think he is a P5 caliber player. By that I mean I don't think he'll ever develop into being a a main contributor to a successful major conference team. It's not just that the game is too fast for him. He lacks coordination. Whatever that element is in athleticism that allows for smooth movement, change of direction, flow, etc - he severely lacks that quality. He can't jump. He has nice size and is clearly a very bright guy, so he may grow into being a space eater who can be counted on to make the correct rotations on defense, but at nearly 21 years old I just don't see how the lack of athleticism is going to change.

 

[longislandcuse]

How has any of this changed since Andy Rautins and arinze onuaku were freshmen?

New (and better) Conference, and since then, we've sent freshman/sophomores to the NBA almost every year. We've also depended on freshman/sophomores more than ever sans '03 Melo/GMac.

 

[cuse309]

High D1 teams, especially those teams who constantly have early entrants (that includes us), don't exactly have the luxury of having redshirt freshman who are unplayable.

Maybe he develops and can give us minutes as a Junior because, depending on who we recruit for '20, we will (hopefully) have one pencilled in forward in Dolezaj because OB/Bazley are gone after next year.

Right, but you cited the era of D-Nice, and Rautins...those same issues existed then that you mention, so in that regard, the game has changed zero since then.

 

[cuse309]

I don't understand this lol. "No reason to doubt his skills"...?

Listen, he seems like a great guy and I have no problem with him being a program player and I'll root for him to prove me wrong. That being said, he's a redshirt freshman and what skills does he currently possess that back up your post. Can't shoot. Can't dribble. Can't pass. Decent wing defender. Decent rebounder. Decent finisher around the rim. That's the breakdown on his skillset so far. I very much doubt his skills but, hopefully, if he gets minutes as a Junior or Senior he's developed those skills.

So in his first year of D1 play, being a decent defender, and a decent rebounder, who has shown the ability to rebound at a silly level at times, is unacceptable of a kid in his first year of competition?

 

[longislandcuse]

Right, but you cited the era of D-Nice, and Rautins...those same issues existed then that you mention, so in that regard, the game has changed zero since then.

We've become the most consistent early entrant program in the ACC aside from Duke. Maybe an ACC program has a year here or there where they deal with this, but for us, it's every year.

Also, the ACC kicks the Big East's ass. The Big East was great but didn't have two other blue bloods and coaches/programs that recruit player with skill over size and athleticism.

 

[longislandcuse]

So in his first year of D1 play, being a decent defender, and a decent rebounder, who has shown the ability to rebound at a silly level at times, is unacceptable of a kid in his first year of competition?

This isn't CFB. You also have to play offense. He's literally unplayable on offense at this point in his development, and as other have pointed out, he's not 18.

*Also, this debate is due to people saying he's "clearly" a high D1 talent. Nobody aside from a few fans here hoping he will be thinks that. Let's all hope he develops into one.

 

[GooseMutt]

Does everyone forget how much we love this kid? Our top recruiter who bleeds orange like we do. He will blossom. I believe in him cause he believes in us. He is still loving the culture yet recognizes his shortcomings. Imagine him as a senior. He’s no joke

 

[Waltdods]

New (and better) Conference, and since then, we've sent freshman/sophomores to the NBA almost every year. We've also depended on freshman/sophomores more than ever sans '03 Melo/GMac.

The acc is not better than the circa 2008 big east.

Your second point is weird. That we have depended on freshmen doesn’t mean upperclassmen can’t contribute.

I’m not particularly high on Moyer, and think he was a disappointment this year. I would be shocked if he develops into more than a backend starter. But Syracuse needs backend starters! It is impossible to build a program (unless you’re duke or uk) that relies entirly on freshmen.

 

[longislandcuse]

The acc is not better than the circa 2008 big east.

Your second point is weird. That we have depended on freshmen doesn’t mean upperclassmen can’t contribute.

I’m not particularly high on Moyer, and think he was a disappointment this year. I would be shocked if he develops into more than a backend starter. But Syracuse needs backend starters! It is impossible to build a program (unless you’re duke or uk) that relies entirly on freshmen.

I think it is. At the very least, it's different. There was no Duke/UNC in the Big East. Teams were also more athletic in the Big East, it was more rugged. Wayyy more skill in the ACC from top to bottom.

No, it doesn't. Agreed. I'm super high on a Junior Dolezaj. Not sold on Junior Moyer. Hope to be proven wrong.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Here we go again with the microwaveable, instant analysis prognostications, from folks who're consistently proven wrong, year after year after year. Matty Moyer's a RS Freshman...and some of you Einsteins are already mapping out his epilogue?
Haven't the last few years, and especially this one, taught you perpetual CROW-EATERS anything?
Guaranteed you'll be back next year telling us again why (fill-in-the-blank), will never be more than a (blah blah blah) role player, in this program. Rinse and repeat!

 

[jdubs30]

Hate to say it, because he seems to be a great kid, but I'd flip your percentages. I just don't think he's a D1 basketball player.

You don't think he's a D1 player? There 351 D1 schools and Moyer was a top 60 recruit in HS.

Moyer, even this year, would probably have been a 1st or 2nd team All-Conference in many mid-major conferences. You can see glimpses of him being productive at this level too

But to say he's not a D1 player at all is pretty ridiculous.

 

[PhatOrange]

Why? Do you know something or just idle speculation?

Just idle thoughts. He’s really limited offensivly (like 4 on 5 limited) and looks like he’ll be buried on the bench next year. Can’t see him playing much at all behind Baze, OB and Marek.

 

[Waltdods]

I think it is. At the very least, it's different. There was no Duke/UNC in the Big East. Teams were also more athletic in the Big East, it was more rugged. Wayyy more skill in the ACC from top to bottom.

No, it doesn't. Agreed. I'm super high on a Junior Dolezaj. Not sold on Junior Moyer. Hope to be proven wrong.

The best team in the big east rautins freshman year was a Jeff green/Roy Hibberr/Jon Wallace Georgetown team that was more skilled than any acc team this year.

The debate here isn’t whether Moyer is going to have a better career than dolezaj - he won’t (if d sticks around). He can still be a valuable contributor to the program, and it’s a good bet he will be a much better player in 2 or 3 years.

 

[OHIORANGES]

Also the opinion of Boeheim and the Orange coaching staff, and 99.9% of Orange fans.

So you have personally poled ALL Orange fans? Wow, that’s pretty amazin!

 

[OrlandoCuse]

So you have personally poled ALL Orange fans? Wow, that’s pretty amazin!

Don’t have to poll them all (not sure what poled is). Not a hard inference. Just subtract you and about a dozen other guys from the estimated 500k+ Syracuse fans. 499,987/500,000 = 99.9%...estimated