The Case for Giving Shafer More Time

[Vorony]

I think what this board probably needs to prepare itself for is that Fredericks, Ish and Erv might just be guys who every team we play has a bunch of. I hope that's not the case, but they might just be average.

Dungey is superman and I'll fight anyone who disagrees with me to their death. How far can that x factor take us? Can't wait to find out, no matter who is our coach.

Unfortunately, most on this board can't take off the orange colored glasses to see this. They'll defend the recruiting as top notch and say we're just about to turn the corner. Well, we've heard that for 10 years now and it still hasn't happened. I'm an alum and a diehard fan, but I'm also a realist. There's no way this team or coaching staff is stealing a win in Tallahassee. I hope we do and I eat my words, but it's highly doubtful.

Agreed on Dungey - he's our best playmaker on offense and definitely something to be excited about.

Other teams have hired home runs, but we're on our 3rd coach in 10 years and still struggling to get a base hit. If Coyle makes the change at the end of the year (and based on the attendance issue, I think this is becoming more and more likely), he needs to go with a proven HC. The guys that have been discussed already (Fuente, Campbell, etc.) - these guys have proven themselves and deserve a look. No more assistants. We need someone with the experience who can come in and finally get it done.

 

[GoSU96]

Any system that rates the 2008 offense as 83rd in the country is useless. Period.

 

[TheCusian]

Any system that rates the 2008 offense as 83rd in the country is useless. Period.

Ha! Cute. Those are good numbers. The system is solid. You should read up on it.

 

[orange79]

Unfortunately, most on this board can't take off the orange colored glasses to see this. They'll defend the recruiting as top notch and say we're just about to turn the corner. Well, we've heard that for 10 years now and it still hasn't happened. I'm an alum and a diehard fan, but I'm also a realist. There's no way this team or coaching staff is stealing a win in Tallahassee. I hope we do and I eat my words, but it's highly doubtful.

Agreed on Dungey - he's our best playmaker on offense and definitely something to be excited about.

Other teams have hired home runs, but we're on our 3rd coach in 10 years and still struggling to get a base hit. If Coyle makes the change at the end of the year (and based on the attendance issue, I think this is becoming more and more likely), he needs to go with a proven HC. The guys that have been discussed already (Fuente, Campbell, etc.) - these guys have proven themselves and deserve a look. No more assistants. We need someone with the experience who can come in and finally get it done.

Who said our recruiting is "top-notch"? Improved, yes. I do not recall anyone saying it was "top-notch".

 

[tep624]

Sorry to break it you but we are 13-18 under SS. He hit the lottery getting this job. We better win another game or goodbye.

I never knew we were 13-18. I must have missed the other 50 posts where you've mentioned that this week.

 

[Vorony]

Who said our recruiting is "top-notch"? Improved, yes. I do not recall anyone saying it was "top-notch".

It wasn't meant to be taken literally- just an exaggeration of how some folks defend anything they can about this staff or team to make them sound better than they are.

 

[tep624]

Exactly. Upper echelon teams are stacked with talent like these guys on the depth chart. And what good are these guys if they dont touch the ball because of our coaching plan. Ish has what, someone posted 18 catches? How many touches for fredericks? HM and DM are still getting all the touches. Clark is a transfer that wont suit up for two years, how many transfers have worked out in the past? They usually dont, dont get your hopes up.

Im not saying HCSS should be fired unless Coyle is going to open up the checkbook for a cant miss type hire.

Erv and Fredericks have gotten more carries than McFarlane and Morris in each of the past 2 games.

 

[Alsacs]

I never knew we were 13-18. I must have missed the other 50 posts where you've mentioned that this week.

Guess what until it improves you will read 50 more. Sorry.

 

[orangeinjersey]

Who said our recruiting is "top-notch"? Improved, yes. I do not recall anyone saying it was "top-notch".

"improved" recruiting isn't translating into wins on the field. You guys keep pounding the recruiting drum as if we're pullung in a top 25 class. Again, we are bottom 25% of our CONFERENCE.

 

[TheCusian]

Guess what until it improves you will read 50 more. Sorry.

And as the OP suggests w-l records without context can be a wee bit deceiving.

 

[TheCusian]

"improved" recruiting isn't translating into wins on the field. You guys keep pounding the recruiting drum as if we're pullung in a top 25 class. Again, we are bottom 25% of our CONFERENCE.

It will. Dungey alone will be worth quite a few wins by the end of his career. Book it.

 

[cuse309]

Is it possible that Coyle could make a hire at H.C. and retain Shafer (did I spell it right? I know someone on here gets really salty when I don't) as D.C.? I know that's not typical, and a new H.C. would likely want to bring in his own guys, but it would help retain our recruits, prevent transfers, and not be a total rebuild.

 

[RoatanCuse]

Hindsight of course, but if D. Gross had formed a search committee when Marrone left his dream job, we would likely not be having this conversation. Someone with head coaching, game-day experience would be at the helm with an offensive philosophy (like Douggie), and Shafer might just have been retained as the D coordinator.

 

[orangeinjersey]

no one in any field takes a demotion and stays with the company/project team. I dont think HCSS would.

 

[Full_Rebar]

I often disagree with Cusian, but this was a well-constructed argument for patience so kudos to you.

I will say that the #1 takeaway for me was 2008 and the 8 win season and the SOS of 105. That's why you don't play LSU, or Wisconsin, you play someone to get a win.

 

[GoSU96]

Any system the calculates that this is the 83rd best offense isn't worth a thing:

Out of 120 teams

Total Offense 115
Rushing Offense 55
Passing Offense 114
Pass 114
Offensive TD's 111
RedZone Attempts 120
3rd Down 116
Sacks Allowed 94
Pass Attempts 114
Scoring Offense 108

They had the 114th fewest pass attempts on the season and yet had the 94th highest number of sacks given up.

SU had 124 offensive possessions that year that didn't end with time running out at the end of a half.

66 Punts, 12 Failed 4th down conversions, 4 Fumbles lost, 8 Ints, 4 missed Field Goals, 22 TD's, 8 made field goals.

On 124 possessions they scored 30 times. On 124 possessions they reached the redzone 23 times.

 

[GoSU96]

Ha! Cute. Those are good numbers. The system is solid. You should read up on it.

It's as solid as your reasoning, as in it isn't.

 

[TheCusian]

Any system the calculates that this is the 83rd best offense isn't worth a thing: Out of 120 teams Total Offense 115 Rushing Offense 55 Passing Offense 114 Pass 114 Offensive TD's 111 RedZone Attempts 120 3rd Down 116 Sacks Allowed 94 Pass Attempts 114 Scoring Offense 108 They had the 114th fewest pass attempts on the season and yet had the 94th highest number of sacks given up. SU had 124 offensive possessions that year that didn't end with time running out at the end of a half. 66 Punts, 12 Failed 4th down conversions, 4 Fumbles lost, 8 Ints, 4 missed Field Goals, 22 TD's, 8 made field goals. On 124 possessions they scored 30 times. On 124 possessions they reached the redzone 23 times.

Go ahead and write those guys. I'm sure they'll be able to mount a defense. .

Let us know what you find out!

 

[TheCusian]

I often disagree with Cusian, but this was a well-constructed argument for patience so kudos to you. I will say that the #1 takeaway for me was 2008 and the 8 win season and the SOS of 105. That's why you don't play LSU, or Wisconsin, you play someone to get a win.

Thanks.

Yep - we rag on NC State and Rutgers for cream puffs - but that info gets lost. So many people just look at w-l with no context that perception can get inflated rather easily.

Kudos (gag) to them for that. (And that's all I got for them )

 

[GoSU96]

Go ahead and write those guys. I'm sure they'll be able to mount a defense. .

Let us know what you find out!

You think a system that spits out 73 or 83 or whatever you say it is valid based on those inputs?

Your whole argument is based on a false premise.

And you can't possibly believe that where the program was in 2009 and 2012 are close to equivalent. because if that really is what you are trying to say, you're FOS.

 

[orange79]

"improved" recruiting isn't translating into wins on the field. You guys keep pounding the recruiting drum as if we're pullung in a top 25 class. Again, we are bottom 25% of our CONFERENCE.

The point was, he said posters were saying recruiting was top-notch. I responded by saying posters had said recruiting had improved, not that it was top-notch. That is what I was responding to.

 

[qdawgg]

And as the OP suggests w-l records without context can be a wee bit deceiving.

What's the context for being 13 - 18 and adding to the loss column by the end of the season? You say "context" as if this is a one season anomaly and fans are freaking out for no reason.

The real context is the overall record has gotten worse since Marrone left. We have no impressive signature wins. We've never beaten one team in the top half of the rankings. We've had numerous "never in the game" games. We have an OL coach who's never coached the OL. We didn't even make an attempt to at least interview any OC's to see if there was someone special to potentially bring in.

I don't know what the answer is but many of the arguments to hang on to Shafer I don't buy into. At the same time I don't know that replacing him at the end of the season is the answer either.

 

[qdawgg]

The point was, he said posters were saying recruiting was top-notch. I responded by saying posters had said recruiting had improved, not that it was top-notch. That is what I was responding to.

Maybe the questions isn't, "is the recruiting improving"? Maybe we should be asking, "is the recruiting improving enough" or "is the recruiting at at least the middle ground of the rest of the ACC".

It seems we keep asking the wrong questions. It's sort of like saying the offense improved from last year. I mean, seriously, how could it be worse? We were literally one of the worst offenses last year. It couldn't possibly be worse. Statistically we have to be better. Not something to hang our hat on though.

 

[orange79]

Maybe the questions isn't, "is the recruiting improving"? Maybe we should be asking, "is the recruiting improving enough" or "is the recruiting at at least the middle ground of the rest of the ACC".

Agreed

 

[Alsacs]

no one in any field takes a demotion and stays with the company/project team. I dont think HCSS would.

Luke Fickell was the interim HC at Ohio State in 2011 and then when the school hired Urban Meyer took the DC job. That is it but SS isn't going to stay here if we move on. He will go be a DC somewhere.