The Case for Giving Shafer More Time

[orange7]

Ill bite. Based on what?

Alex Lemon: 2009--295 yards
2010--397 yards
2011--834 yards
2012--1070 yards

An overall improvement (and significant improvement) from freshman to senior year. Let me ask you this: Would you rather trust Marrone and his ability to coach in a one-game situation where a win was needed or Scott Shafer? (I know Marrone isn't coming back here, but I am using the comparison that we all should want what is best for this program and that starts with coaching).

We all need to remember--we all love this program, hence why we spend so much time lurking and posting. i think sometimes that gets lost in the debate. We all debate because we love this program and ALL want to see it succeed.

 

[TexanMark]

Shafer has another year...even if we finish at 3 wins.

 

[HeaterCuse22]

Alex Lemon: 2009--295 yards
2010

No idea how that makes your point but. Ok.

Steve Ishmael - 2014 415 yards

 

[elimunelson]

Shafer has another year...even if we finish at 3 wins.

that's a dreadful thought. Both the result and the AD's reaction to it. It will speak, from this end, to how flush our AD is right now if they can't cut a coach with a year left who couldn't win more than 3 games in a season where our schedule was set up w 3 automatic wins. The fanbase will be incensed.

 

[TheCusian]

UVA is a bad football team. I don't get how that is debatable. They will not be going bowling and if they win another game this year I will be shocked.

They could beat VPI at home but I don't see them as a good team. Their coach has killed their fanbase.

USF is mediocre. They aren't a good team. Their offense had 6 possessions in the 2nd half and scored 5 TDs and fumbled on the 6th.

Objectivity? Is what? Looking at our record thru 2.5 years and seeing 1 win against team that won 8 games (2013 Minnesota). Losing to USF and UVA was a killer for this season. Most people had us 4-2 thru 6 games we are 3-3 who does that fall on?

Nevermind, I see why:

Syracuse record vs FBS winning teams
09 Marrone: 2-6
10 Marrone: 3-5
11 Marrone: 2-4
12 Marrone: 2-4
13 Shafer: 4-5
14 Shafer: 1-8
15 Shafer: 0-1

Coaches record in first 2.5 years vs FBS winning teams
Marrone: 6-13
Shafer: 5-14

And to answer your other question, 3-3 falls on Shafer. It's not good enough. But lets see how the season plays out.

 

[TexanMark]

Nevermind, I see why:

Syracuse record vs FBS winning teams
09 Marrone: 2-6
10 Marrone: 3-5
11 Marrone: 2-4
12 Marrone: 2-4
13 Shafer: 4-5
14 Shafer: 1-8
15 Shafer: 0-1

Coaches record in first 2.5 years vs FBS winning teams
Marrone: 6-13
Shafer: 5-14

And to answer your other question, 3-3 falls on Shafer. It's not good enough. But lets see how the season plays out.

Shafer's teams have been competitive this year...the kid's are staying out of trouble and excelling academically...recruiting is picking up. What I hear...morale on the team is good as can be expected and they love playing for Coach Shafer. The decision IMHO gets punted to next year if he finishes with 3 to 5 wins.

I could see Coyle suggesting he address some weak spots (coaching changes) after the season.

 

[elimunelson]

Shafer's teams have been competitive this year...the kid's are staying out of trouble and excelling academically...recruiting is picking up. The decision IMHO gets punted to next year if he finishes with 3 to 5 wins.

I could see Coyle suggesting he address some weak spots (coaching changes) after the season.

it all depends on wins/lossess more than other stuff. The staying out of trouble and excelling academically should be happening regardless on a coach's watch.

New AD + a coach who has been in the program for many years now = scrutiny in offseason if they win 3-4 games. That scrutiny could be what you said or he could decide to go in another direction if his guy is out there to replace. Tons of factors at play. Win and the problems go away.

I'm not a troll. I just want to see this turn around before i turn 50. I'm 39.

 

[leftytg]

Troll

there is - literally - nothing trollish with that post. You may disagree with the post, but simply accusing other posters of trolling simply because their opinion is different that yours does nothing to elevate or push forward the conversation.

You've been fond of trumpeting your supposed "objective" thinking. I haven't seen very much of it on display in this thread. In fact, you come off quite the opposite.

 

[TexanMark]

it all depends on wins/lossess more than other stuff. The staying out of trouble and excelling academically should be happening regardless on a coach's watch.

New AD + a coach who has been in the program for many years now = scrutiny in offseason if they win 3-4 games. That scrutiny could be what you said or he could decide to go in another direction if his guy is out there to replace. Tons of factors at play. Win and the problems go away.

I'm not a troll. I just want to see this turn around before i turn 50. I'm 39.

I don't think you are a troll...we all wanna see Cuse get back to the Top 25...but getting on a 3-4 year coaching merry go round isn't going to help. Look at Coach Mac...patience. If we are a 3 or 4 win team next year...I'll be with you.

 

[qdawgg]

I also believe that our record with Marrone over the last three years would have been the same or worse, because he wouldn't have been able to secure the recruits to be competitive in the ACC.

Based on what? And please provide your resume so I have a better understanding of why I should take your post seriously. Thank you.

 

[qdawgg]

Shafer's teams have been competitive this year...the kid's are staying out of trouble and excelling academically...recruiting is picking up. What I hear...morale on the team is good as can be expected and they love playing for Coach Shafer. The decision IMHO gets punted to next year if he finishes with 3 to 5 wins.

I could see Coyle suggesting he address some weak spots (coaching changes) after the season.

And depending how the rest of the games go, win or lose, I would be ok with this if there were some changes made.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

that's a dreadful thought. Both the result and the AD's reaction to it. It will speak, from this end, to how flush our AD is right now if they can't cut a coach with a year left who couldn't win more than 3 games in a season where our schedule was set up w 3 automatic wins. The fanbase will be incensed.

Shafer is under contract through 2017.

If he gets fired at the end of this season, he would be getting fired with 2 years left.

 

[TexanMark]

And depending how the rest of the games go, win or lose, I would be ok with this if there were some changes made.

Agreed...now if the team totally craps the bed and becomes GRob'ish the last 6 games I might change my opinion...but the team looks competitive and the sideline looks pretty organized and efficient this year.

 

[elimunelson]

I don't think you are a troll...we all wanna see Cuse get back to the Top 25...but getting on a 3-4 year coaching merry go round isn't going to help. Look at Coach Mac...patience. If we are a 3 or 4 win team next year...I'll be with you.

I was reacting to another post and combined it with your response. Yeah I'm just frustrated because that UVA game was there to take. Every single win matters to the overall perception of the program right now. I'm obviously overreacting b/c if we win this weekend and steal one of the FSU/Clemson games, the blip will be just that, a blip. But I don't want to see a trend setting in where we are Terry Shea esque and you blink and the program's record is so bad that the rebuild becomes that much harder when it starts up again.

As my avatar says, Losers average Losers. We need to get out of that rut. Starting this weekend.

 

[Vorony]

Nevermind, I see why:

Syracuse record vs FBS winning teams
09 Marrone: 2-6
10 Marrone: 3-5
11 Marrone: 2-4
12 Marrone: 2-4
13 Shafer: 4-5
14 Shafer: 1-8
15 Shafer: 0-1

Coaches record in first 2.5 years vs FBS winning teams
Marrone: 6-13
Shafer: 5-14

And to answer your other question, 3-3 falls on Shafer. It's not good enough. But lets see how the season plays out.

The problem with this logic is that Marrone took over a team that was possibly the lowest that a Syracuse team has ever been. It was a total rebuild job. Shafer did not inherit a team left in shambles. He inherited Marrone's progress. As myself and others have stated in this thread, Shafer was supposed to build on the momentum left behind by Marrone, and continue to improve the play of the team. He has not done that. He has gotten worse. Those are facts based on numbers.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Agreed...now if the team totally craps the bed and becomes GRob'ish the last 6 games I might change my opinion...but the team looks competitive and the sideline looks pretty organized and efficient this year.

The schedule this year has been pretty weak thus far. Being just competitive isn't good enough. Why has the bar been set so low? We have played one Top 75 Sagarin team and 5 teams outside the Top 75. Taking away the two outliers URI & LSU we are 2-2 against teams that are currently ranked 76-93 which isn't good.

 

[phil77]

Who are you - In game coaching. Tell me right now your ability to determine in game coaching. Resume please, and I am not trying to be an ass but I am so sick of people just saying things when they are a causal fan.

Who are you? What are your qualifications? Why should your opinions be taking seriously? You are a casual fan on a message board also. And after this post you had the nerve to call someone else a troll. Surprised attacks like this are allowed after all we are all casual fans on a message board posting our opinions.

 

[Millhouse]

The problem with this logic is that Marrone took over a team that was possibly the lowest that a Syracuse team has ever been. It was a total rebuild job. Shafer did not inherit a team left in shambles. He inherited Marrone's progress. As myself and others have stated in this thread, Shafer was supposed to build on the momentum left behind by Marrone, and continue to improve the play of the team. He has not done that. He has gotten worse. Those are facts based on numbers.

marrone made all his progress on offense in his last year when most the important pieces of it graduated

there's not that much momentum when you go from nassib lemon sales pugh and chibane to hunt broyld west trudo and hickey

 

[TheCusian]

Based on what? And please provide your resume so I have a better understanding of why I should take your post seriously. Thank you.

Yeah - that's hard to prove. Loads and loads of moving parts.

But just looking at the past and SOS is interesting:

- Shafer's 2013 team played #46 ranked SOS and won 7. 4 of those wins were vs winning FBS teams.
- Marrone's 2011 team played the #45 ranked SOS and won 5. 2 of those wins were vs winning FBS teams (but WVU is a better win than any of the 2-13 wins). This team was plagued by 2nd half season injuries.

- Shafer's 2014 team played the #26 ranked SOS and won 3. 1 of those wins were vs winning FBS teams (CMU). This team was plagued by 2nd half season injuries.
Marrone's 2009 team played the #24 ranked SOS and won 4. 2 of those wins were vs winning FBS teams.

Hard to tell - especially given the 2012 team and the progress on O. I'd bet he'd win more - but I'm not sure it would be by a lot. Much of 2013-14 was about Hunt.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

The problem with this logic is that Marrone took over a team that was possibly the lowest that a Syracuse team has ever been. It was a total rebuild job. Shafer did not inherit a team left in shambles. He inherited Marrone's progress. As myself and others have stated in this thread, Shafer was supposed to build on the momentum left behind by Marrone, and continue to improve the play of the team. He has not done that. He has gotten worse. Those are facts based on numbers.

How much momentum was lost when Marrone took over half the coaching staff to Buffalo? Hackett, Wheatley, Moore, Anselmo, Adkins, and Henderson.

Should have been a piece of cake for Shafer to replace everyone overnight just a few weeks before LOI day, right.

 

[phil77]

The problem with this logic is that Marrone took over a team that was possibly the lowest that a Syracuse team has ever been. It was a total rebuild job. Shafer did not inherit a team left in shambles. He inherited Marrone's progress. As myself and others have stated in this thread, Shafer was supposed to build on the momentum left behind by Marrone, and continue to improve the play of the team. He has not done that. He has gotten worse. Those are facts based on numbers.

I don't think Marrone gave Shafer much momentum because all the momentum we gained graduated to the NFL. The offensive cupboards were bare at that point without much experience coming back.

 

[TheCusian]

The problem with this logic is that Marrone took over a team that was possibly the lowest that a Syracuse team has ever been. It was a total rebuild job. Shafer did not inherit a team left in shambles. He inherited Marrone's progress. As myself and others have stated in this thread, Shafer was supposed to build on the momentum left behind by Marrone, and continue to improve the play of the team. He has not done that. He has gotten worse. Those are facts based on numbers.

You should read the whole thread. In short: Shafer did continue the D's success (until this year, so far). The offense is just about where it was save the one year with senior Nassib and Hackett's new and improved system. It was on the up swing, but it was too brief and too many key people left to provide any real momentum.

 

[Millhouse]

everyone makes it too complicated. shafer was hired to continue the momentum. uh what momentum.

what are the odds of us getting someone better and how risk averse are we?

i think he's a little below average without much upside and we could certainly do worse if we listen to outside consultants or worse, pete carroll

i'm so sick of the stupid offenses. we finally had an unstupid offense when we hired an offensive HC. if it fails miserably, we survived gerg, we can survive anything.

 

[Millhouse]

You should read the whole thread. In short: Shafer did continue the D's success (until this year, so far). The offense is just about where it was save the one year with senior Nassib and Hackett's new and improved system. It was on the up swing, but it was too brief and too many key people left to provide any real momentum.

the d wasn't that successful in 2012. below average yards per play

 

[TheCusian]

everyone makes it too complicated. shafer was hired to continue the momentum. uh what momentum.

what are the odds of us getting someone better and how risk averse are we?

i think he's a little below average without much upside and we could certainly do worse if we listen to outside consultants or worse, pete carroll

i'm so sick of the stupid offenses. we finally had an unstupid offense when we hired an offensive HC. if it fails miserably, we survived gerg, we can survive anything.

I think the % that is true is higher than it not being true. But I'm not as upset about Lester as you are.