The Coyle decision

[Alsacs]

Yes, I'm with ya. How in the red were we? We are making an extra 20mil a year. If we're not willing to spend to get ourselves someone worth it, as you've said many times, let's not expect fans to show up. We should just keep Shaf and hope to have a few good/decent years at some point. Or if we're worried JB needs to be highest paid coach, then let's become Georgetown and drop down a level, or bump JBs salary up. Football pays the bills everywhere else. There are many school that are successful in both.

I personally don't believe the JB salary is that big a deal. The man bleeds Orange and has been underpaid this whole decade. I think that he cares more about assistants salaries and the players getting the charters. Than his salary when he retires the Athletic Department will hire in some capacity like Florida State has done with Bobby Bowden.

We need to spend the extra 3 million now and do it right. Keeping SS means giving him more money and that makes little sense to me when the Dome renovation project price tag is discussed.

 

[cuseguy]

The buyout for Les Miles and his staff at LSU is $20 million and the school says it wouldn't flinch if it decides to go that way.

And people think we can compete at that level?

 

[oldpinepoint]

Yes, I'm with ya. How in the red were we? We are making an extra 20mil a year. If we're not willing to spend to get ourselves someone worth it, as you've said many times, let's not expect fans to show up. We should just keep Shaf and hope to have a few good/decent years at some point. Or if we're worried JB needs to be highest paid coach, then let's become Georgetown and drop down a level, or bump JBs salary up. Football pays the bills everywhere else. There are many schools that are successful in both.

Some may have a better idea about the finances, but I think Coyle is a very factual and practical with numbers. Doesn't try to hide or mask like the prior administration. Football attendance for example, not sure how in the red we were running or if we were pulling dough from other areas. But if the difference was $10-15 mil and then add the coaches salaries of another $4mil it might make you think twice.

 

[Jake]

The "Boeheim needs to be paid more than the FB coach" people with influence need to wake the up. Its such a crock. A good football program is good for the SU Athletic Department. Does JB even give a rats a** ? Doubt it

I think this can be worked around.

 

[TheCusian]

I'm surprised Coyle took the job if that's true. And if it is true, I'm a bit concerned.

Kent and Coyle both seem like they are on a mission to be really fiscally sound. Usually that's preceded by people who were not fiscally sound. That's already a fact. I'm just wondering just how deep a hole they dug?

 

[jekelish]

Kent and Coyle both seem like they are on a mission to be really fiscally sound. Usually that's preceded by people who were not fiscally sound. That's already a fact. I'm just wondering just how deep a hole they dug?

Yep. And I remember back when Kent got the job, and then when Coyle did, one of the biggest things people talked about for both of them was how smart they were with money, and how great they were with fundraising. That immediately tells me there were a looooot of poor spending habits with the previous regimes they replaced, if people were making it such a focal point of the hires. It tells me that the people crafting the press releases about Kent and Coyle were highlighting things for people (like the BOT) who might have had some big issues with the way money was being spent.

 

[Chris02M]

Honestly how does the ACC TV money factor into this. I get this AD has to balance the books and be more fiscally disciplined but the FB coach needs an extension so why we would be afraid to spend money on a new staff when the current staff will be need to be extended.
Our current staff all together probably makes 3-4 million total and a new staff will probably cost 6-7 million money annually why are we being cheap about 3 million dollars when we are talking about a 200 million renovation of the Dome.
I mean seriously we could sell multiple home games to Metlife next year ONLY like the Louisville/Virginia Tech/Florida State games and I am sure we could easily get a significant portion of the money right there.
Our TV revenue increase can't be going to completely filling in the overspending of Gross. Going from 5 million to 17 million means 12 million more. Syverud has clearly audited the AD and knows the expenses. I highly doubt the AD was running a 12 million dollar deficit. Spend the extra couple million now and do it right.

are we still paying off that bigeast exit fee of 7.5 million?

 

[chakka3421]

Follow up to post #241.
Regarding Shafer asking for decision to extend or move on as it is hurting recruiting. Confirmed from 3 different & reliable sources that a recruit at Clemson game wanted to commit but unsure/waiting until decision on coaching staff is made. Personally, if I were Shafer I would want to know sooner so he and assistants can start the search for new jobs - same for Coyle as sooner you start the process the better. Or extend.

Regarding SUAD operating budget - that is a different budget from the capital budget which funds will be earmarked towards facilities, not ongoing operations. 2 entirely different budgets.

I think we have to trust Coyle in whatever decision is made. My only disappointment will be if this drags on well beyond end of season - either way.

 

[Alsacs]

are we still paying off that bigeast exit fee of 7.5 million?

No and when we announced we were leaving the Big East in Sept. 2011 in our letter announcing our intentions we included a check for 2.5 million which was half of the amount to withdraw. I highly doubt 5 million dollars back from 2011 is killing our budget.

Gross overspending on Olympic Sports has to be a bigger drain on the AD and because his contract had incentives for those teams doing well it made sense for him to give those teams more $$$.

We have made 36 million dollars the last 2 years from ACC TV money the BE exit fee is long paid off.

 

[jekelish]

Follow up to post #241.
Regarding Shafer asking for decision to extend or move on as it is hurting recruiting. Confirmed from 3 different & reliable sources that a recruit at Clemson game wanted to commit but unsure/waiting until decision on coaching staff is made.

I can confirm this as well. At this point, the silence and indecision is hamstringing the staff. There'll be basically no recruiting movement until things are cleared up, one way or the other. Recruits are in a holding pattern.

 

[Alsacs]

Follow up to post #241.
Regarding Shafer asking for decision to extend or move on as it is hurting recruiting. Confirmed from 3 different & reliable sources that a recruit at Clemson game wanted to commit but unsure/waiting until decision on coaching staff is made. Personally, if I were Shafer I would want to know sooner so he and assistants can start the search for new jobs - same for Coyle as sooner you start the process the better. Or extend.

Regarding SUAD operating budget - that is a different budget from the capital budget which funds will be earmarked towards facilities, not ongoing operations. 2 entirely different budgets.

I think we have to trust Coyle in whatever decision is made. My only disappointment will be if this drags on well beyond end of season - either way.

Coyle can't take time. The Sunday after BC has to be either a firing or an extension. Based on what you have said it appears Coyle just needs a green light to do what he wants.

 

[djorange1989]

I can confirm this as well. At this point, the silence and indecision is hamstringing the staff. There'll be basically no recruiting movement until things are cleared up, one way or the other. Recruits are in a holding pattern.

Any idea as to whom the recruit is? Perhaps you can give a very subtle hint such as what his name rhymes with

 

[jekelish]

Any idea as to whom the recruit is? Perhaps you can give a very subtle hint such as what his name rhymes with

Ha...well, he's from Florida. Does that help?

 

[djorange1989]

Ha...well, he's from Florida. Does that help?

Luther Campbell??!

 

[rrlbees]

Any idea as to whom the recruit is? Perhaps you can give a very subtle hint such as what his name rhymes with

Wayman

 

[jekelish]

Wayman

Ha...well, I guess it'll be out there now.

But anyone following Twitter this weekend probably could have guessed anyway, I suppose. He was tweeting and retweeting about SU constantly.

 

[djorange1989]

I figured based on all the tweets. It's a shame but this is the way it will be until Coyle makes a decision

 

[orangenirvana]

1) Because it already did. That's why our best players are almost all freshmen and sophomores right now.

2) Because there are, which is why everybody on every show is talking about it.

1. Shafer's recruiting classes are rated just as high/low as the classes that came before him. The last coaching change didn't cause a talent flow interruption. You're being dramatic.

2. I don't buy it. There are many coaching changes every year.

 

[orange79]

1. Shafer's recruiting classes are rated just as high/low as the classes that came before him. The last coaching change didn't cause a talent flow interruption. You're being dramatic.

2. I don't buy it. There are many coaching changes every year.

Agree with your second point. You shouldn't use ratings to make an argument, though, IMO. If the FR's and SO's are playing over the previously recruited players, then either 1) there were injuries, or 2) they are better.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Too much talk, just get it done. If Syracuse is serious about winning football games, they will get it done and find a way. That is what schools who are serious about football would do.

Get it the F done. The financial aspect is something that can always be worked around. Again, as fans people love to get lost in these details and create excuses as to why we still suck all the time. With dome renovations, new staff, solid facilities, we may actually have a chance at being top 25 again.

I have very little doubt that Shafer will be done a week from Saturday if not sooner. The clown show left with Cantor and Gross. I am sure Coyle is just waiting for the green light. I wont blame him if it doesn't get done as and AD would want dead weight out the door. Hoping Coyle know what he got into when he took the job.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

1. Shafer's recruiting classes are rated just as high/low as the classes that came before him. The last coaching change didn't cause a talent flow interruption. You're being dramatic.

2. I don't buy it. There are many coaching changes every year.

His recruiting classes are "pimped" by the twitter army and people who over follow recruiting. If they say it and we read it enough, people actually believe that these guys are killing it on the recruiting trail. Again we are better than WF there, that is it. If his classes are any better than Marrone's which to me is highly debatable, the reason would be the ACC and the new IPF, nothing that will go away.

 

[CuseOnly]

And I agree with most of this. Talent is migrating to big name schools, not just Alabama, but ND, Penn State, Michigan and other schools. And that's the trend we have to buck. Until the IPF was built, our facilities were an easy excuse for recruits. We didn't measure up with our competition. And it's not Southern SEC powers. Penn State out-recruits us, and it's a Northern school. So are Northwestern, and ND and Michigan.

One huge reason --that all these posts clamoring for a regime change omit-- is facilities. Facilities and talent go together. We all remember this from the 90's when the Dome was a novelty. Today, it's tired. And, no surprise, we're struggling to keep up with our ACC peers. The IPF is helping, but when the Dome renovations are announced and progress becomes visible, I think this will begin a new era for us in recruiting.

Michigan, ND and Ped St. have always out-recruited us, that isn't going to change unless we get a Phil Knight infusion of cash.

 

[TheCusian]

His recruiting classes are "pimped" by the twitter army and people who over follow recruiting. If they say it and we read it enough, people actually believe that these guys are killing it on the recruiting trail. Again we are better than WF there, that is it. If his classes are any better than Marrone's which to me is highly debatable, the reason would be the ACC and the new IPF, nothing that will go away.

There's always some puff when we get a kid. That's what makes recruiting fun to follow.

But it's not that debatable. Still not pulling in top guys (4/5*)... But our avg per recruit is up star wise. And just the fact that there are very few senior/juniors playing should tell you everything you need to know.

 

[orangenirvana]

You shouldn't use ratings to make an argument, though, IMO. If the FR's and SO's are playing over the previously recruited players, then either 1) there were injuries, or 2) they are better.

I don't see why not. There can be many reasons why the underclassmen play over the upperclassmen. Coaching staff failing to develop the players properly so improvement is non-existent is one possibility. Doesn't necessarily mean those recruiting classes were better. And it certainly doesn't mean a coaching change will cause a "talent flow interruption."

 

[TheCusian]

1. Shafer's recruiting classes are rated just as high/low as the classes that came before him. The last coaching change didn't cause a talent flow interruption. You're being dramatic. 2. I don't buy it. There are many coaching changes every year.

P -> Gregggers = Ray Rice, Leonard
Greggers -> Marrone = no one I can think of
Marrone -> Shafer = Gus Edwards

There's almost always talent disruption. Just how impactful that is is debatable.

 

[TheCusian]

I don't see why not. There can be many reasons why the underclassmen play over the upperclassmen. Coaching staff failing to develop the players properly so improvement is non-existent is one possibility. Doesn't necessarily mean those recruiting classes were better. And it certainly doesn't mean a coaching change will cause a "talent flow interruption."

Cmon. We are playing seniors and juniors where they are better than their counterparts. The problem is there are not a lot of them - especially at key positions like QB, WR, S.

It's really not that debatable. Marrone's recruiting + leaving when he did = impacted the last two seasons.