The current state of recruiting in this program

[Horn88]

I was kinda wondering why Thompson and Howard were listed...

I mean you could’ve replied to my post directly and asked...

I included Frank because played the role he played while he was here because there weren’t any better options. People didn’t like him but we would have been worse without him and the staff obviously couldn’t bring in anyone better or he wouldn’t have been playing. So I think that’s a significant piece worth mentioning. And I think he’s better than anyone Gerry has brought in.

Thompson was talented but it just didn’t work out for him in college. Like I said before if it makes people feel better to take him off the list the list stands pretty strong without him.

 

[OrangeDW]

I mean you could’ve replied to my post directly and asked...

I included Frank because played the role he played while he was here because there weren’t any better options. People didn’t like him but we would have been worse without him and the staff obviously couldn’t bring in anyone better or he wouldn’t have been playing. So I think that’s a significant piece worth mentioning. And I think he’s better than anyone Gerry has brought in.

Thompson was talented but it just didn’t work out for him in college. Like I said before if it makes people feel better to take him off the list the list stands pretty strong without him.

Could’ve but didn’t because it usually ruffles a few feathers to talk negatively about anyone that played at SU, so I was gonna leave it alone.

Frank was the best we had for his position. As were Deshaun and McCroskey(well, maybe not quite...) at some point.

TT was very talented at shooting 15 footers, and had some nice footwork for a freshman.

 

[two3zone]

You tell me. Is anyone on the current roster that will make any all ACC team?

I think Buddy is capable.

 

[billsin01]

Could’ve but didn’t because it usually ruffles a few feathers to talk negatively about anyone that played at SU, so I was gonna leave it alone.

Frank was the best we had for his position. As were Deshaun and McCroskey(well, maybe not quite...) at some point.

TT was very talented at shooting 15 footers, and had some nice footwork for a freshman.

I saw frank play as a frosh at north carolina and really liked him. sad it didn't work out the way we hoped. He had a pretty solid junior year. Yeah, turnovers and not the greatest pg, but i thought he played hard and generally played pretty well that year. Wish he could have followed it up with a strong senior season.

 

[OrangeDW]

I saw frank play as a frosh at north carolina and really liked him. sad it didn't work out the way we hoped. He had a pretty solid junior year. Yeah, turnovers and not the greatest pg, but i thought he played hard and generally played pretty well that year. Wish he could have followed it up with a strong senior season.

Yeah. I thought he showed promise as a freshman.

And had an overall pretty good Junior year. Injury was unfortunate his senior year.

Wish we could’ve recruited either a better PG or at least a more dynamic PG that was ready to at the least split time with him at some point though the last 2 years. That’s not his fault though.

I wish whatever off court recruiting nonsense and the NCAA tourney suspension weren’t a thing...

 

[jgeorge322]

And would have melted down if we hadn't gotten them.

People are melting down with them. Cannot fathom how people would react without them.

 

[jgeorge322]

Yeah. I thought he showed promise as a freshman.

And had an overall pretty good Junior year. Injury was unfortunate his senior year.

Wish we could’ve recruited either a better PG or at least a more dynamic PG that was ready to at the least split time with him at some point though the last 2 years. That’s not his fault though.

I wish whatever off court recruiting nonsense and the NCAA tourney suspension weren’t a thing...

The suspension was the fitting end. From what I could tell, he got all the support one could hope for and still couldn't make it work.

 

[billsin01]

Thats not the point. He was SUs number one, top of the board, all in, recruit and Gmac and JB ended up Bridesmaids again. Eventually the excuses wear thin. Sanctions, bags, playing time... The one constant for whatever reason is Gmac. We can speculate all we want about why we cant close but the results are what they are. The good news is that we are still recruiting well enough to field good competitive teams. Hopefully Red lands Jackson.

So this is 100% true. I'm about as big a JB apologist as there is but let's call a spade a spade -- we aren't landing our top prospects. Where I probably differ from a lot of people is that I'm not sure it's really a death knell. I think programs that are winning games consistently and winning titles, by and large, are doing it with good systems and well-constructed teams. Not necessarily big-time recruits and one-and-dones.

What I think really needs to change is the way we are talking about the zone (to me, man-to-man defense in the nba is honestly more zone than it is man, but we can debate that elsewhere) and the way we play offensively. We have been so brutal and slow offensively that have absolutely no credibility to tell a kid like Andre Jackson that we are going to help him get to the NBA. Has to change.

I also feel like there probably needs to be a moment where we hold the staff accountable. I have no particular issue with anyone, but I really think at the end of this year it would behoove this staff to encourage a GMac or Red to push for a head job somewhere and try to hire a recruiter -- even if he's outside the orange family.

Don't know, but I do believe it's OK to point out both sides of this thing -- big loss and bad look to lose a guy you've been all over for years AND also not a reason this team can't be very good going forward.

What happens next is up to the staff. Hopefully we land Jackson and we can forget all about it. But not the finest hour for the orange.

 

[billsin01]

Yeah. I thought he showed promise as a freshman.

And had an overall pretty good Junior year. Injury was unfortunate his senior year.

Wish we could’ve recruited either a better PG or at least a more dynamic PG that was ready to at the least split time with him at some point though the last 2 years. That’s not his fault though.

I wish whatever off court recruiting nonsense and the NCAA tourney suspension weren’t a thing...

Agreed on all counts. The suspension/off the court stuff as a senior are really inexcusable. Pathetic really. But I agree we were also asking him to do way more than we ever should have been. He should have been a guy who played off-ball some, PG some and generally was 25 mpg type guy. Instead he was playing 40 at the point. No bueno.

 

[OrangeDW]

Agreed on all counts. The suspension/off the court stuff as a senior are really inexcusable. Pathetic really. But I agree we were also asking him to do way more than we ever should have been. He should have been a guy who played off-ball some, PG some and generally was 25 mpg type guy. Instead he was playing 40 at the point. No bueno.

Yup. I used to complain that Gerry and Jonny Flynn shouldn’t have to play all 40.

Now we’ve got Frank Howard playing all 40?

My kingdom for 2 PGs on the team at the same time that can play...

 

[jgeorge322]

So this is 100% true. I'm about as big a JB apologist as there is but let's call a spade a spade -- we aren't landing our top prospects. Where I probably differ from a lot of people is that I'm not sure it's really a death knell. I think programs that are winning games consistently and winning titles, by and large, are doing it with good systems and well-constructed teams. Not necessarily big-time recruits and one-and-dones.

What I think really needs to change is the way we are talking about the zone (to me, man-to-man defense in the nba is honestly more zone than it is man, but we can debate that elsewhere) and the way we play offensively. We have been so brutal and slow offensively that have absolutely no credibility to tell a kid like Andre Jackson that we are going to help him get to the NBA. Has to change.

I also feel like there probably needs to be a moment where we hold the staff accountable. I have no particular issue with anyone, but I really think at the end of this year it would behoove this staff to encourage a GMac or Red to push for a head job somewhere and try to hire a recruiter -- even if he's outside the orange family.

Don't know, but I do believe it's OK to point out both sides of this thing -- big loss and bad look to lose a guy you've been all over for years AND also not a reason this team can't be very good going forward.

What happens next is up to the staff. Hopefully we land Jackson and we can forget all about it. But not the finest hour for the orange.

You had me until sending red away. I think hes a proven commodity on the trail.

 

[billsin01]

You had me until sending red away. I think hes a proven commodity on the trail.

It's all good. Just wondering if we can get a hired gun. I also really don't think it's a bad thing for Red's career. I'm honestly not knocking the staff just wondering if the current makeup needs a little shakeup. I have zero problems with Red, just think if he were to get a head job and we were able to add a stud recruiter -- or if the same scenario played out with GMac -- it wouldn't be a bad thing. I'm not really saying jettison someone, but if they have chance to increase responsibilities and we can respond with a the hire of a big-time recruiter, it could be a win-win.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

and jba is from sudan but recruited out of suburban philly

This may be the best post you've ever made

 

[jgeorge322]

It's all good. Just wondering if we can get a hired gun. I also really don't think it's a bad thing for Red's career. I'm honestly not knocking the staff just wondering if the current makeup needs a little shakeup. I have zero problems with Red, just think if he were to get a head job and we were able to add a stud recruiter -- or if the same scenario played out with GMac -- it wouldn't be a bad thing. I'm not really saying jettison someone, but if they have chance to increase responsibilities and we can respond with a the hire of a big-time recruiter, it could be a win-win.

I think theres a lot going on and you raise good points, particularly about the offense. What I think is most important though is playing better and winning more games. We all thought we would be very good last year and it was another difficult season to watch. Oshae had one foot out the door, we didnt have a center, frank was injured and is frank. I think if we get back to syracuse basketball, all these concerns go away.

Also, im still not convinced andre jackson really wants uconn.

 

[Briancuse]

I think theres a lot going on and you raise good points, particularly about the offense. What I think is most important though is playing better and winning more games. We all thought we would be very good last year and it was another difficult season to watch. Oshae had one foot out the door, we didnt have a center, frank was injured and is frank. I think if we get back to syracuse basketball, all these concerns go away.

Also, im still not convinced andre jackson really wants uconn.

Which makes the situation all the more maddening.

 

[Trueblue25]

This is one of the craziest things you've ever posted.

What?

Goodine and Guerrier have the skillset of top 100 recruits and Girards the top scorer in NY history.

Boston College, Clemson, Pittsburgh, GT, Wake and probably even Notre Dame would kill for this class.

To say there’s no ACC talent is lunacy

 

[Cusefan0307]

When did I say Moyer was garbage?

And if it makes you feel better to take Thompson off the list then have at it but that list is a pretty strong track record with or without Thompson.

Kinda crazy there’s pushback at all here that Red is more than just a “solid” recruiter. A little shocked to be honest.

You haven't. Others have. That's why I questioned him. I'm not arguing. I am just saying it wasn't accurate Red was part of our last great run. Rob Murphy was an assistant then.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Understood. Some coaches are just better at recruiting than others.

There's a lot of stuff with Jackson that people aren't privy too I'll leave it at that.

It's maddening that you keep making the same argument then admit it's about relationships.

I kind of wonder why it's Red and Gerry constantly on the road.

Where is Griffin in all of this? That never gets mentioned.

 

[Horn88]

You haven't. Others have. That's why I questioned him. I'm not arguing. I am just saying it wasn't accurate Red was part of our last great run. Rob Murphy was an assistant then.

You're right that he came in at the tail end of the run. Another name I should have included but forgot last night was how Red held off Oregon for Guerrier. This program would be in rough shape without the talent he's brought in.

 

[Horn88]

What?

Goodine and Guerrier have the skillset of top 100 recruits and Girards the top scorer in NY history.

Boston College, Clemson, Pittsburgh, GT, Wake and probably even Notre Dame would kill for this class.

To say there’s no ACC talent is lunacy

Is this who we are now?

These schools shouldn't be the bar on if they would be happy with our recruiting class. If this is who our peer group is now then we've fallen off quite a bit further than people realize.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

I think the recruiting philosophy has changed recently for the better. Seems we now target the top, then seek value from lower rated guys with unique skills who should be 3-4 year players. The Battles, Brissetts, Lydons, and Richardsons were not a formula for success. They were good enough to be fringe NBA prospects to the point they lacked the incentive to stay and develop, but were also not soo good that they could win big games against big opponents (consistently) and they would have trouble against lesser opponents who had developed upperclassmen who were just bigger/stronger and better players (albeit with less potential). But we do need those top players too and can't keep missing there (e.g. Stewart, Bazley).

We arent going to beat Duke's and Kentucky's recruiting classes. Our National Championship team should be the formula. You need to sprinkle in one elite recruit (I'd take more) with solid upperclassman and underclassmen who can develop and or have unique skills. We should be able to attain that on the recruiting trail.

 

[moqui]

Where is Griffin in all of this? That never gets mentioned.

he rides to the rescue with the late pulls
bazely, braswell, edwards

 

[Sherman20]

Why is it always on Gerry?

Autry is our most seasoned assistant coach and recruiter.

And Red is our best recruiter. No question.

 

[Sherman20]

Red has been in a different class than Gerry from a recruiting perspective since he joined. Hop was a beast as we all know but Red is an excellent recruiter in his own right. Those two were a great duo during our run.

Gerry has struggled. It is what it is but he’s young and he’s learning so my guess is he should keep improving.

Red is a great recruiter but he’s facing some uphill battles with negative recruiting against JB’s age. That said, all 3 of our assistants are pretty quiet, low-key guys, especially compared to Hop and Rob Murphy. Gmac does not have a naturally outgoing personality.

 

[Trueblue25]

Is this who we are now?

These schools shouldn't be the bar on if they would be happy with our recruiting class. If this is who our peer group is now then we've fallen off quite a bit further than people realize.

No.. I was simply responding to the OP.

Our bar should always be a top 20 class, as we have a staff that can develop that talent into a top 10 team.

BUT, this class’s ranking to my eye don’t accurately reflect the talent of the incoming players. ESPECIALLY Goodine.