The Program is in free fall

Cusefan0307

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When he shoots over 60%, absolutly.
That first year he shot 53% and we won 30 games, went to the FF and finished 2nd in the BE. I’m not sold giving him more touches would have made us exponentially better. We lost in the FF cause Southerland and MCW stunk.

He also only played around 20 mpg those two years as JB seemed to like to have Keita play a lot to anchor the zone.
 

two3zone

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That first year he shot 53% and we won 30 games, went to the FF and finished 2nd in the BE. I’m not sold giving him more touches would have made us exponentially better. We lost in the FF cause Southerland and MCW stunk.

He also only played around 20 mpg those two years as JB seemed to like to have Keita play a lot to anchor the zone.
I get the first year.
 

CuseFaninVT

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That first year he shot 53% and we won 30 games, went to the FF and finished 2nd in the BE. I’m not sold giving him more touches would have made us exponentially better. We lost in the FF cause Southerland and MCW stunk.

He also only played around 20 mpg those two years as JB seemed to like to have Keita play a lot to anchor the zone.
I completely agree with you on his usage when BMK was around.

I always felt having a big option inside helped all the shooters around him, meaning I think Southerland and MCW would have better success from outside if everyone thought for a second we might actually pass to the big man posted on the block.
 

ssbriefcase

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We're going to do this for a 10th time with Rak? He'd get the ball and play hot potato with it, he wouldn't look toward the rim, he'd look to kick it out. He wasn't ready until he was. When guys know that, why would they try and get him the ball if he's not going to do anything with it? They froze him out could be the lamest excuse ever. Yeah, because he was ready to dominate like he did his senior year, but our guards didn't want to win or him to score and froze him out. C'mon with that. So what changed for his senior year? Why did the guards start giving him the ball just that year?
 

rrlbees

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Feel free to share. I don't need to know what coach, nor do i actually care. Just want to know what clandestine reporting tidbit you have.
it’s been discussed here before. I don’t know the best word to use so I’ll just say the lack of want to or desire until his senior year.
 

Sherman20

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Nobody gave him the ball the first 3 years. Myself and MANY others saw something when he actually did get the ball that warranted him to get it more and when he actually did he had great success.

It doesn't take one summer to go from platooning with a guy with stone hands to an NBA draft pick who carried the team.
The guy with stone hands you refer to is Baye, yes? Fact check: BMK was gone after Rak’s sophomore year. Rak was the primary center in 2013-14 when he was a junior. He showed good promise operating in the lane that season, including in that NC State game in the Dome when he was the leading scorer. But he was still the 4th or 5th offensive option behind CJ, Grant, Ennis, and Cooney. And you can’t object to that decision being that we started the season 25-0. Rak started to emerge as an offensive force during ACC play that season and that’s when we started looking for him more. But it wasn’t until he was a senior that we needed to rely on him as our main offensive guy along with Gbinije.
 

two3zone

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The guy with stone hands you refer to is Baye, yes? Fact check: BMK was gone after Rak’s sophomore year. Rak was the primary center in 2013-14 when he was a junior. He showed good promise operating in the lane that season, including in that NC State game in the Dome when he was the leading scorer. But he was still the 4th or 5th offensive option behind CJ, Grant, Ennis, and Cooney. And you can’t object to that decision being that we started the season 25-0. Rak started to emerge as an offensive force during ACC play that season and that’s when we started looking for him more. But it wasn’t until he was a senior that we needed to rely on him as our main offensive guy along with Gbinije.
I'll object all day during the 25-0. We struggled scoring against St Francis at home. That was fools gold and many knew it. We needed points all season and Rak barely got the ball.
 

CuseTroop

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I've been drunk for like 6 days, but every time I pass by this thread I think it says "this program is in a tree fall" and every single time I say "why are they not correcting this title, maybe we should doc Bees's salary. Then I realize I'm an idiot and can't read.

Still think we should doc bees's salary tho.
 

JoeySimz

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I've been drunk for like 6 days, but every time I pass by this thread I think it says "this program is in a tree fall" and every single time I say "why are they not correcting this title, maybe we should doc Bees's salary. Then I realize I'm an idiot and can't read.

Still think we should doc bees's salary tho.
2B6B49C4-323B-4B47-8876-55B7FB7ED4F6.gif
 

HOFCeluck

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I love the idea that Rak just didn’t “want it” until he was a senior. And yes, I’m sure a coach is going to say “well we should’ve used him more as a junior, our bad.” Very plausible all around imo.
 

ssbriefcase

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I love the idea that Rak just didn’t “want it” until he was a senior. And yes, I’m sure a coach is going to say “well we should’ve used him more as a junior, our bad.” Very plausible all around imo.
You don't love that half as much as I love, every guard on the team conspired to freeze Rak out his junior year, and there was this monster under the rim waiting to rip off 20ppg, but nah no guards wanted to win or wanted help. And of course all coaches were in on it too. Jr. Rak against the world!
 

orange79

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I've been drunk for like 6 days, but every time I pass by this thread I think it says "this program is in a tree fall" and every single time I say "why are they not correcting this title, maybe we should doc Bees's salary. Then I realize I'm an idiot and can't read.

Still think we should doc bees's salary tho.
Yep, agreed.

What's 20% of $0.00?
 

Cusefan0307

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The guy with stone hands you refer to is Baye, yes? Fact check: BMK was gone after Rak’s sophomore year. Rak was the primary center in 2013-14 when he was a junior. He showed good promise operating in the lane that season, including in that NC State game in the Dome when he was the leading scorer. But he was still the 4th or 5th offensive option behind CJ, Grant, Ennis, and Cooney. And you can’t object to that decision being that we started the season 25-0. Rak started to emerge as an offensive force during ACC play that season and that’s when we started looking for him more. But it wasn’t until he was a senior that we needed to rely on him as our main offensive guy along with Gbinije.
But he wasn't. He was still here Rak's JR year and played 16 mpg.
 

ssbriefcase

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I’m not sure that’s what happened but that scenario is more believable than Rakeem Christmas waking up sometime in the summer of 2014 deciding that he wanted to be an all-ACC caliber big man.

But I get it. Considering how 2014 went off the rails it’s easier to just believe that he wasn’t capable of playing like that.
Lol, one guy changing his approach mentally and developing skill is harder to believe than all his teammates not passing him the ball, and coaches being cool with that. I specifically paid attention, and I'm sure others did too when this conspiracy started gaining steam, and I pointed out after that when he'd get the ball and not even attempt to make himself a threat and look to kick it out. At duke that year and after this conspiracy was rolling was one example of watching him want no part of a post move or to score the ball. He played timid.
 

OttoMets

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Nobody gave him the ball the first 3 years. Myself and MANY others saw something when he actually did get the ball that warranted him to get it more and when he actually did he had great success.

It doesn't take one summer to go from platooning with a guy with stone hands to an NBA draft pick who carried the team.
Yeah, you and VT and Ghost and I and a couple others were on this bandwagon from the get-go.

Were we really going to give Rak more shots over CJ/Triche/Southerland or CJ/Ennis/Grant?
I mean, most definitely. Not more shots than, but more shots out of the total. Especially the last three, since their late-season offensive struggles (and the team's consequent spacing problems) tanked the 2014 season. People were saying it at the time, Rakeem's shooting like 60%, why can't he get more touches when nobody else can buy a basket? And it was a big to-do when he actually did take (and miss) the potential game-winner against BC and Boeheim held this up as the reason for why he shouldn't shoot.
 

OttoMets

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You don't love that half as much as I love, every guard on the team conspired to freeze Rak out his junior year, and there was this monster under the rim waiting to rip off 20ppg, but nah no guards wanted to win or wanted help. And of course all coaches were in on it too. Jr. Rak against the world!
I don't think anybody's suggesting that.

Boeheim's not interested in low-post scoring at the expense of shots by wings and guards, that's all.

2015 was a little like the year when Otis Hill got to expand his game - it was a terrible team whose offensive options included Gbinije (not there yet), Kaleb Joseph (routinely tripped on his feet and fell down and gave the ball to the other team), and Cooney (obviously) in what quickly shaped up to be a lost season. Boeheim went with the last resort, and he produced.
 

OttoMets

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Lol, one guy changing his approach mentally and developing skill is harder to believe than all his teammates not passing him the ball, and coaches being cool with that. I specifically paid attention, and I'm sure others did too when this conspiracy started gaining steam, and I pointed out after that when he'd get the ball and not even attempt to make himself a threat and look to kick it out. At duke that year and after this conspiracy was rolling was one example of watching him want no part of a post move or to score the ball. He played timid.
Confirmation bias, maybe? Another rationale behind that perception is that Christmas had been told not to look for his shot and that's why he kicked it out.

This would jibe with everything we saw Boeheim say publicly.

(Though, to be fair, Boeheim sez things.)
 

Cusefan0307

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Yeah, you and VT and Ghost and I and a couple others were on this bandwagon from the get-go.



I mean, most definitely. Not more shots than, but more shots out of the total. Especially the last three, since their late-season offensive struggles (and the team's consequent spacing problems) tanked the 2014 season. People were saying it at the time, Rakeem's shooting like 60%, why can't he get more touches when nobody else can buy a basket? And it was a big to-do when he actually did take (and miss) the potential game-winner against BC and Boeheim held this up as the reason for why he shouldn't shoot.
I was speaking to 2013 mostly. We got the most out of that season. You want to argue 2014 fine, but Keita played a lot of minutes that year. Some people think he graduated.
 

Newhouser

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I guess the all-time winningest coach/hall of famer, Mike Hopkins and the other coaches were too dumb to figure that out. If someone had just dropped them a line and told them that.
Well they didn't throw it to him for 3 years, snarky sarcasm doesn't change that.
 

rrlbees

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I love the idea that Rak just didn’t “want it” until he was a senior. And yes, I’m sure a coach is going to say “well we should’ve used him more as a junior, our bad.” Very plausible all around imo.
So you don’t know.
 

OttoMets

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I was speaking to 2013 mostly. We got the most out of that season. You want to argue 2014 fine, but Keita played a lot of minutes that year. Some people think he graduated.
Baye's a tricky one. That's back when defense over offense was more a reasonable difference of opinion (at worst) rather than the obvious death knell for the program that it looks like today. So in 2014 that made sense. Though I think he got hurt in a Sunday night game early in league play (Clemson? I dunno, some snowy night when they played badly against a bad team) and probably should've gotten Wally Pipped after that.

I'm in a bit of a 2013 minority, I do think we were limited and might have gotten the most out of the year, but I tend to think a scoring big man could have taken a lot of pressure off Triche (hurt) and Carter-Williams (a mess at times). Maybe my memories are getting jumbled, but this was the aircraft carrier season, right? That game should've been a template for the year. We couldn't shoot, because of the breeze, so we focused on getting the ball to the block. Rakeem and C.J. scored at will and even Coleman got in on the action, IIRC.
 

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